Still think we have the best Health care in the world?

[HM2VikingRN]

i heard this woman's story on npr http://thestory.org/archive the other night. read the diaries and make your own decision about whether our system needs reform. this patient had an 8 day wait to get in to see a us gynecologist on an urgent basis.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/15/132936/405

in april 2005, when i was still ignorant of endometriosis and living in the us, i was lucky enough to have health insurance (bad as it was) and decided to find a us doctor who could prescribe something for my nasal allergies. in singapore, my doctor had prescribed me "flixonase" (the foreign name for flonase) and i could buy it there for us$17 a bottle. without insurance. i would find out later that a bottle of flonase in the us would set me back us$70 a bottle with insurance.

.....

me: "how soon would you be able to operate on my cysts if i decided to have it done immediately?"

he: "anytime also can.* you want tonight, or if you want tomorrow, it can be done."

(* some singaporean style english for you. it just means "anytime.")

me: "what? really?"

he: "yah." at no point did he exhibit any expression on his face except concern, and he looked me in the eye.

me: "you'd be able to do it anytime i ask for?"

he: "ya, anytime. the sooner the better of course. just tell me, we can arrange it."

when i told my husband about the conversation, he was amazed, even with the other personal singapore healthcare experiences he's heard from me. among other things, my gynae's practice in singapore:

- is "private", as opposed to a government clinic in singapore, but still affordable. i can also get appointment with the doctor really quickly, within the same week whenever i call, if not the next day.

- never made me feel rushed. my first appointment with dr o lasted an hour. all my appointments with dr m in raleigh had never gone over 10 minutes.

- was the one who gave me a pelvic ultrasound on my first visit to him, and showed me my sonogram images, on screen during the ultrasound, and on paper after. this never happened with dr m.

comment: no waiting time for care or needed surgery.

cost for laprascopic ovarian cyst removal us: 16000

singapore: 2000-5000.

lupron us: 682 dollars

lupron singapore: 250 dollars

- quality of medical attention? as a female, and as someone who has had to get check-ups regularly for visa requirements, i haven't had the quality of healthcare in us that matches what i get in singapore yet.

if you explore the singapore ministry of health's website, read their mission statements. one thing i've always liked about their approach to health: when government is partly footing the bill, that government has a lot of incentive to keep its people healthy, and to educate the population on how to do so. singapore costs are kept affordable in two ways - the moh put it in their mission to keep healthcare affordable in singapore (and then they do it), and singapore has both public hospitals and private hospitals. both types offer competitive quality and price. competition can work - done right.

...

but the biggest tragedy i see here in the us is failure of education, philosophy and vision - many people still think, despite all worldwide numbers to the contrary, that american healthcare is the best the world can do. what perpetuates the failed system is the spoonfed bs is that no one can afford a system that tries to take care of everyone, not just the rich. and of course, the neocon myth that free market will make good healthcare system. as long as sheeple believe these falsities, bad legislation follows.

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

Gee, lets see, what would be an even better example of a body that is even MORE corrupt than your example? Something that is CONSISTENTLY fraught with corruption? Oh yeah, that would be GOVERNMENT. At least you CAN go after the insurance companies and catch 'em. Its much harder to hold the government accountable for ITS actions.

I am TOTALLY with you on that one. Especially after watching last week's 60 minutes piece about the incestuous relationship the government has with the pharmaceutical industry. I was blown away.

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

Oh, I didn't ace the math or verbal parts, by any means. I DID ace the test of standard written English, though.

Of course, now I'm older and wiser and sometimes less of a rule-follower: on purpose. It's the maverick in me, don't ya know.

~faith,

Timothy.

Maverick's rock!

( BTW what ever happened to that nice, old maverick John McCain?)

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

Maverick's rock!

( BTW what ever happened to that nice, old maverick John McCain?)

He spent 4 yrs going out of his way to offend his base, and surprise, he now HAS no base. However, that's straying into politics.

~faith,

Timothy.

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

And, the reason why America is the most powerful nation in the world is because of profit. Without profit, we have no money to invest in better equipment, newer technology etc.

And, never start a sentence with a conjunction.

Last I heard the US was seventh in the world for technological innovation.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/us_ranked_7th_in_technological_innovation

"US has lost its position as the world’s primary engine of technology innovation, according to a report by the World Economic Forum. The US is now ranked seventh in the body’s league table measuring the impact of technology on the development of nations. A deterioration of the political and regulatory environment in the US prompted the fall, the report said.

The top spot went for the first time to Denmark, followed by Sweden.

Countries were judged on technological advancements in general business, the infrastructure available and the extent to which government policy creates a framework necessary for economic development and increased competitiveness. The Networked Readiness Index, the sixth of its kind published by the World Economic Forum with Insead, the Paris-based business school, scrutinised progress in 122 economies worldwide.

Despite losing its top position, the US still maintained a strong focus on innovation, driven by one of the world’s best tertiary education systems and its high degree of co-operation with industry, the report said. The country’s efficient market environment, conducive to the availability of venture capital, and the sophistication of financial markets, was also given recognition.

Denmark is now regarded as the world leader in technological innovation and application, with its Nordic neighbours Sweden, Finland and Norway claiming second, fourth and 10th place respectively. “Denmark, in particular, has benefited from the very effective government e-leadership, reflected in early liberalisation of the telecommunications sector, a first-rate regulatory environment and large availability of e-government services,” said Irene Mia, senior economist at World Economic Forum."

BTW, don't worry about that silly conjunction thingy. It's a little trick we writers use for emphasis.:wink2:

[Simplepleasures]

Also, some posters use very descriptive terms to refer to members of our federal government, like "stormtroopers" and "cabal". Wow this actually reminds me of the hippy days when such terms were used by the far left to describe the government. Go figure.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

Also, some very descriptive terms are used to refer to members of our federal government, like "stormtroopers" and "cabal". Wow this actually reminds me of the hippy days when such terms were used by the far left to describe the government. Go figure.

The more things change . . .

~faith,

Timothy.

[Simplepleasures]

Last I heard the US was seventh in the world for technological innovation.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/us_ranked_7th_in_technological_innovation

The top spot went for the first time to Denmark, followed by Sweden.

Despite losing its top position, the US still maintained a strong focus on innovation, driven by one of the world’s best tertiary education systems and its high degree of co-operation with industry, the report said. The country’s efficient market environment, conducive to the availability of venture capital, and the sophistication of financial markets, was also given recognition.

Denmark is now regarded as the world leader in technological innovation and application, with its Nordic neighbours Sweden, Finland and Norway claiming second, fourth and 10th place respectively. “Denmark, in particular, has benefited from the very effective government e-leadership, reflected in early liberalisation of the telecommunications sector, a first-rate regulatory environment and large availability of e-government services,” said Irene Mia, senior economist at World Economic Forum."

BTW, don't worry about that silly conjunction thingy. It's a little trick we writers use for emphasis.:wink2:

Isnt it interesting that these so called "socialist" countries are top in technological innovation. Maybe it takes some of that innovative spirit to make a universal health care sysytem work for the citizens , the government and the market.I dont think we have lost that innovative drive, at least I hope we haven't.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

isnt it interesting that these so called "socialist" countries are top in technological innovation. maybe it takes some of that innovative spirit to make a universal health care sysytem work for the citizens , the government and the market.i dont think we have lost that innovative drive, at least i hope we haven't.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/050630/b0630102.html

several u.s. states were reportedly prepared to offer more than double that amount of subsidy. but fedchun said much of that extra money would have been eaten away by higher training costs than are necessary for the woodstock project.

he said nissan and honda have encountered difficulties getting new plants up to full production in recent years in mississippi and alabama due to an untrained - and often illiterate - workforce. in alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment.

"the educational level and the skill level of the people down there is so much lower than it is in ontario," fedchun said. in addition to lower training costs, canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in canada, said federal industry minister david emmerson.

the libertarian economic paradise has failed to deliver good education, good health care and good jobs to its workers. below average investment ratess yield below average results

[Gromit]

really? I was unaware that 'the game' was "over". There does seem to exist a faction in this country that is seemingly always ready to declare defeat. Thats something I never have understood -I guess its because I inherited the trait from my parents, and grandparents, and great grandparents of "never say die". folks in my family have always had that nasty habit of just never quitting until its truly over. I'm proud to count myself among their numbers.

[horsenurse25]

Several people have written on here that the US is BEST in the world, most POWERFUL in the world, Best this, best that.

:roll :roll :roll :roll

I think it is more accurate to say that the US is best in your hearts and your favorite in the world. And that is an excellent feeling. However, discounting global statistics in order to advance your personal feelings is simply not reasonable.

The bottom line is that the US is nowhere near the top in almost every catagory that there is.

Saying that something is not perfect or the best does not mean that you cannot still love it best...

:blushkiss

And I would say that the fact that every single country that has universal health care fight like absolute tigers to keep it...despite considerable pressure from doctors, pharmaceuticals, lawyers and investors...is the biggest endorsement there can be.

It doesn't matter how many people that "you met or know" that says they hate it. The bottom line is that if it did not work, the public would be trying to get rid of it....AND THEY ARE NOT!!!

[GeekyRN]

well, I'm not a business man, and I'm certainly not 'well off', but I do beg to differ. MY care has been second to none. I'm certainly (obviously) happy with it, and have no desire to mess with socialized care.

I've met far too many Canadian nurses who (for whatever reason) don't seem to concur with your post. In fact, too many of them have been pretty blunt with "if you guys go with socialized healthcare, you deserve what you get".]

1. Well, first of all if you think the Canadian system is "socialized" you either don't know the definition of socialism or you don't know what you're talking about. Or both.

It's not. While i's a single payer system (normally by the province, not the federal government) the healthcare system is entirely run by private Doctors, hospitals, pharmacies, etc. The government owns/manages none of it. The government just writes the check (well part of it) for people who use it from their taxes. With that single-payer system comes efficiencies, a greatly reduced burden in filing claims, such that there's actually far more healthcare professionals than bureacrats in the Canadian hospitals than in the USA, which makes me somewhat suspicious of your claims.

2. As for all the allegedy nurses you know trash-talking the system, where are they? Where all all the zillions of Canadians unhappy with the system folks who sound just like you would have us believe? Nobody can ever find them.

Considering not even Canada's current rightwing govenrment would DARE try to change the healthcare system and model it after this shipwreck in the US, obviously nobody's grossly unhappy with it. (exception for billionaires that don't want to pay taxes and can afford to pay for their own bypass with loose cash). Canadians know our system stinks. (note I said our system, NOT our healthcare, big difference).

3. As I noted, I , much of my family has lived and used the Canadian system (and ours in the USA) for years and noted no large difference in quality. The real difference is for regular people that you won't go bankrupt in CA getting a bypass or if (God forbid) someone develops a terminal illness.

But somehow I am sure none of these things matter to the idealogues. Somebody on am radio told them it was "socialistic" and "bad", so that's that. Just like they don't bother to note that Americans actually pay MORE per capita for healthcare than Canadians do (yet somehow almost appro 70 million still don't have insurance). Nor have they bothered to compare annual medical error rates between the various sytems, nor anything else that would make sense if one were trying to actually scientifically compare the systems in an intelligent matter.

Sorry, if I'm on a roll by the way. It's just with approx 70 million uninsured Americans and rising, and the costs of the system banrkupting the country, it just pisses me off that people STILL want to play the same old knee-jerk politics.

Whereas the SANE thing to do is abandon all commitment to ideology, take a look arond the world at what works well where, who does what well, and so forth, and incorporate the best of ideas, no matter where they lay on the political spectrum.

[lorita]

While i've never met or worked with a cannadian nurse. I've met many canadian pt 's when I was working in michigan near a college that had many canadian students. they would often metion their health care and how they never had to worry and on and on kind of made me jealous to tell you the truth. they were very happy and not all of them were young kids some were families as they had family housing at the college. It was a religous college in westen MI and interestingly enough very republican.