I notice some students or others seem to think that because they've heard about a nursing shortage, that means that they will get a day position in their dream unit, and be welcomed with open arms as if they are the reserve troops come to save the day.
I don't think that's really the case. You still have to take the less desirable shifts, prove yourself, be accepted by your co-workers, and earn respect. Yes, there are toxic units, and those ones are probably more in need of extra help, so you might be more likely to get a job there.
If you are a newbie, you still have to 'pay your dues' in some way, that's usually the way life works in many arenas.
I laughed, and said that I wouldn't have gone into nursing if I expected to have them all off. The NM said, "well, you wouldn't believe how many people waltz in here and say they expect to work M-F days with holidays off! Obviously, we don't hire them!" Although I'd rather not work all weekend every weekend (unless my hospital starts doing the Baylor plan and pays me for it), I also expect that I'll probably have a weekend shift every week.
Bingo. Precisely. And if you don't need to do weekends, or you do them every other or every third week, then you'll be fine with it. Better to assume you have to concede a bit than expect everyone ELSE to concede to what you want!
I didn't agree with everything you wrote, but enough to tap a "thanks" to you :)
You definitely shouldn't be a doormat. You shouldn't take whatever crap is offered just because you "have to pay dues". Those sticking to that are missing the point; the POINT is what you have in the part of your post I quoted above. The point is that you are worth what all new employees are worth, and are not special because Mommy and the BON say you are :)
On a side note, I do think it's a bit odd that so many new grads think of med-surg as the dungeon of nursing; I planned to start there, I did start there, STILL there, and enjoy the often-fascinating surgical patients and ever-changing techniques, skills I learn all the time. It's sad, really, that so many think of a med-surg unit as "settling" when SO much of the time, it's the one area you can work in where you learn more in your first year than any new grad anywhere else in the hospital. Not interested in a debate over how much anyone learns in ICU, ED, etc, LOL, just that I think med-surg gets a bad rep and then the newbie assumes they are 'worth' more than starting there. When the reality is, if your skills and attitude can't cut it in my surgical unit, WE get rid of YOU, not the other way around. /Defense of med-surg
Great post, and I bolded the part which I think applies most to this thread.
As I stated previously, I think a lot of the posters in this thread are not getting it. I think they should read your post!
What aren't posters getting? Is the point of this thread to state that new nurses aren't qualified for specialities or that if you can't get the hours you want you shouldn't whine because you are new? I'd agree 100% with the part about not expecting the gravy schedule but then again as others have said just don't hire them for that if its a problem. For the new nurses if you need days M-F hold out until you find a position like that or suck it up and put in your time with a positive attitude. Seems pretty simple to me.
On a side note, I do think it's a bit odd that so many new grads think of med-surg as the dungeon of nursing; I think med-surg gets a bad rep and then the newbie assumes they are 'worth' more than starting there. When the reality is, if your skills and attitude can't cut it in my surgical unit, WE get rid of YOU, not the other way around. /Defense of med-surg
*I'm going off-topic here*
In my experience, I think part of the reason med-surg isn't a popular option among students is that during clinical rotations, med-surg nursing was least comprehensive and appeared to be the kind of task-oriented nursing that instructors warned you against.
Med-surg nurses are often understaffed and seem to spend more time just running around to cover the basics - getting those insulins in administered before breakfast, getting meds passed before patients disappear to testing - that they don't seem to have time to really look at the big picture with the patient, to see how everything fits together... and to explain it to the newbie.
Specialty area nurses often self-select there and so are more likely to enjoy their work and be truly interested in that area, thus sharing their knowledge and interest with the students. If the specialty unit has lower ratios, the nurses will likely be more friendly to the students as opposed to treating them like just another hassle.
A cardiac nurse can really learn about and explain cardiac issues, an oncology nurse can really learn about and explain chemotherapy... a med-surg nurse looks like they know a little about a lot but are generally too busy to get into in much depth... just the basics... vital signs stable? blood sugars stable? patient voiding?... As a student who has it drilled in into them that they'd better understand the underlying pathophys and the rationale behind interventions... med surg can seem like it would be MORE difficult to learn as a newbie than a specialty area where it seems you might be better able to master the whole enchilada and not just run around trying to get all the tasks done... feeling like a lifeguard who has to clean the pool, teach swimming lessons, and man the reception desk while making sure no one drowns.
Specializes in ED, Cardiac Medicine, Retail Health.
Nursing is a very broad profession. There is community and public health nursing, hospice, and many other nursing specialties. In my opinion working at the bedside is but one aspect of nursing. There are those who like being at the bedside, and those who don't. Where is it written that all nurses must start at the bedside? And whats wrong with trying to find the job that suites you. Its a little disappointing that nurses are held to a higher standard than other working professionals. Lawyers are not ridiculed for seeking that high powered, high pay position at an elite firm, instead of working as a public defender. Doctors are encouraged by the colleagues to pursue high paying specialties. We should all be able to secure the best living possible. There no crime in that
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Yes, these students or new grads are extremely naive; I mean, I have gone to the hospitals on weekends, holidays, nights, etc...and there were always nurses there, you know?? And, when the 'reserves' come in, it gives the incumbant nurses a chance to get the desired days/shifts that they wanted for awhile themselves. That's the way it is.
However, due to the horribe situations nurses are dealing with these days, can you blame the ones that literally RUN from the bedside??
Specializes in Trauma ICU, Surgical ICU, Medical ICU.
With all of two years' time under my belt, certainly the "dues nurses paid years ago" doesn't apply to me, either. But I'm also not 22, and the work ethic I was raised with does not include whining that I didn't get everything I want, that someone else "cheated" me out of a position, that "they" should be paying me more because I'm....well....ME. It's the Entitlement Generation, and it's definitely not limited to nursing. So, the "whiny melodrama" is a matter of perspective.
Veterans aren't insisting you do a year or two of hard time, LOL, just that you shouldn't expect your first interview to result in getting GOBS more money than anyone else, no scheduling concessions, no impediment on your social life whatsoever. There's a tendency among the newbies (YOUNG newbies, btw, NOT second or third career nurses) to think that because they have arrived, their lives take priority and their wants take precedence. They don't.
I do think this is a major part of the problem. I also believe MY generation (I am 23) never learned how to pay dues when they were younger. Most of my peers opened their mouths and got whatever they wanted. We all cried "its not fair!" in prek, elem school, HS, and college, and now we are doing it in careers! This is a problem for ALL jobs. My generation truly disgusts me and I hate that I am a part of it. No one can just be thankful for having A JOB anymore. I was thrilled to death to get a job as a new grad in the ICU at a major teaching hospital. I work rotating 12 hr shifts, some weeks I work AM and PM shift in the same week. I work when they tell me to. I still manage to have "a life." I make less than $20/hr. It is hard, but it is doable. I truly get sick of hearing people on these boards saying "I CANT WORK NIGHTS!!!!" or "WHAT ABOUT MY CHILD CARE!!" no, you can work nights, it's just hard. Managing what to do about your children is hard, not impossible, so dont whine and complain about it to your manager when there are 20 different mothers employed for them too, either get a different job or suck it up. Don't expect to be treated special just because you make a fuss, and if you do, dont expect sympathy from those who suck it up and deal with it.
For the new nurses if you need days M-F hold out until you find a position like that or suck it up and put in your time with a positive attitude. Seems pretty simple to me.
To me too! :) I try not to complain about much. I have learned in my very short 31 years that the less I say, sometimes the more I understand, and the less trouble I get myself into. except here...I just loooove to talk here. But I'm sure I'll learn that lesson here sooner or later as well, haha.
People are going to say what they say. If the worst thing coming out of nursing school is antics about wanting a better job, I think you guys are getting lucky. You should SEE some of the behavior/attitudes/verbal garbage that comes out of the mouths of students. I know a lot don't make it through, but atleast SOME of them have to get through it somewhere, which means that they are out there somewhere, taking care of someone *shudder*
I do think some newbies have that sense of entitlement. I also believe that the "nursing shortage" is a myth nowadays....if I look at the posted positions at my hospital right now...there might be five. All high-up, specialty positions that NO new grad is EVER going to get, because so much background is required for them!
I worked (briefly) with a new grad hired for a 12 hour night position (most of our new nurses are in that type of position, I myself did for almost 7 years, up until 6 months ago when something better *for me* opened up). After being hired, she told our director that she only wanted to work weekend nights. While this isn't "normal" desired hours, it was for her. She was ****** enough to quit because her request was not accomodated. You can't just "make up" a position, any position that's created needs a lot of approval! All of the money put in to her orientation, and that's the thanks we got because she didn't get what she thought she deserved. *ugh*
There's no argument there. And I had to smile at the "times have changed" comment; those who have 'known' me on these boards know I have two years' of nursing time under my belt! I'm hardly an old war horse And so no, it's not that "times have changed" and there's confusion because of that. It's that some things NEVER change: the acceptance that there's no such thing as a free lunch, that hard work usually pays off in the long run, and that the fast, easy way to making a fortune tends to turn out to be a hoax.
The ability of the new grad to find lots of great opportunities DOES exist; NO ONE is claiming you should work for cr@p 'just because'. We ARE saying that there seems to be an increasing attitude amongst the younger set, everywhere, that someone owes them some kind of special privileges because they are....there.
That's it, that's the whole message, the whole point.
Get yourself the best arrangement you can (I wonder how many times I've said that on this thread alone??). But don't stomp and whine and blame the administration for not giving you everything you want because you have graced them with your presence (not YOU, of course...I mean "you" as in the 'I'm Here, Bow To Me' set.
With all of two years' time under my belt, certainly the "dues nurses paid years ago" doesn't apply to me, either. But I'm also not 22, and the work ethic I was raised with does not include whining that I didn't get everything I want, that someone else "cheated" me out of a position, that "they" should be paying me more because I'm....well....ME. It's the Entitlement Generation, and it's definitely not limited to nursing. So, the "whiny melodrama" is a matter of perspective.
Veterans aren't insisting you do a year or two of hard time, LOL, just that you shouldn't expect your first interview to result in getting GOBS more money than anyone else, no scheduling concessions, no impediment on your social life whatsoever. There's a tendency among the newbies (YOUNG newbies, btw, NOT second or third career nurses) to think that because they have arrived, their lives take priority and their wants take precedence. They don't.
I do think this is a major part of the problem. I also believe MY generation (I am 23) never learned how to pay dues when they were younger. Most of my peers opened their mouths and got whatever they wanted. We all cried "its not fair!" in prek, elem school, HS, and college, and now we are doing it in careers! This is a problem for ALL jobs. My generation truly disgusts me and I hate that I am a part of it. No one can just be thankful for having A JOB anymore. I was thrilled to death to get a job as a new grad in the ICU at a major teaching hospital. I work rotating 12 hr shifts, some weeks I work AM and PM shift in the same week. I work when they tell me to. I still manage to have "a life." I make less than $20/hr. It is hard, but it is doable. I truly get sick of hearing people on these boards saying "I CANT WORK NIGHTS!!!!" or "WHAT ABOUT MY CHILD CARE!!" no, you can work nights, it's just hard. Managing what to do about your children is hard, not impossible, so dont whine and complain about it to your manager when there are 20 different mothers employed for them too, either get a different job or suck it up. Don't expect to be treated special just because you make a fuss, and if you do, dont expect sympathy from those who suck it up and deal with it.
I do think this is a major part of the problem. I also believe MY generation (I am 23) never learned how to pay dues when they were younger. Most of my peers opened their mouths and got whatever they wanted. We all cried "its not fair!" in prek, elem school, HS, and college, and now we are doing it in careers! This is a problem for ALL jobs. My generation truly disgusts me and I hate that I am a part of it. No one can just be thankful for having A JOB anymore. I was thrilled to death to get a job as a new grad in the ICU at a major teaching hospital. I work rotating 12 hr shifts, some weeks I work AM and PM shift in the same week. I work when they tell me to. I still manage to have "a life." I make less than $20/hr. It is hard, but it is doable. I truly get sick of hearing people on these boards saying "I CANT WORK NIGHTS!!!!" or "WHAT ABOUT MY CHILD CARE!!" no, you can work nights, it's just hard. Managing what to do about your children is hard, not impossible, so dont whine and complain about it to your manager when there are 20 different mothers employed for them too, either get a different job or suck it up. Don't expect to be treated special just because you make a fuss, and if you do, dont expect sympathy from those who suck it up and deal with it.
Recommended reading: See above!:yeah:
I understand what you mean by our generation being more vocal about what they do and don't want. As for those saying 'I can't work nights' etc, well they should read their contracts more carefully. But why settle for a job that doesn't make you happy?
I guess my argument here is that if younger nurses who can't fulfil their obligations to work shift work then they should look elsewhere. They should find a place that suits them. They shouldn't be forced to work in an area where they are unhappy because of the hours. They shouldn't be made to feel obligated to 'pay their dues' and work med-surg because that's what everyone else does.
I don't feel I owe anyone anything to anyone for becoming a nurse. I have never felt the need to 'pay my dues' to any senior nurse. I respect their knowledge but I'm not in awe of them. I'm not going to grovel at their feet and put up with bad working hours simply because i owe someone something.
except here...I just loooove to talk here. 
And so no, it's not that "times have changed" and there's confusion because of that. It's that some things NEVER change: the acceptance that there's no such thing as a free lunch, that hard work usually pays off in the long run, and that the fast, easy way to making a fortune tends to turn out to be a hoax.
:yeah:
RNsRWe, ASN, RN
3 Articles; 10,428 Posts
Bingo. Precisely. And if you don't need to do weekends, or you do them every other or every third week, then you'll be fine with it. Better to assume you have to concede a bit than expect everyone ELSE to concede to what you want!
I didn't agree with everything you wrote, but enough to tap a "thanks" to you :)
You definitely shouldn't be a doormat. You shouldn't take whatever crap is offered just because you "have to pay dues". Those sticking to that are missing the point; the POINT is what you have in the part of your post I quoted above. The point is that you are worth what all new employees are worth, and are not special because Mommy and the BON say you are :)
On a side note, I do think it's a bit odd that so many new grads think of med-surg as the dungeon of nursing; I planned to start there, I did start there, STILL there, and enjoy the often-fascinating surgical patients and ever-changing techniques, skills I learn all the time. It's sad, really, that so many think of a med-surg unit as "settling" when SO much of the time, it's the one area you can work in where you learn more in your first year than any new grad anywhere else in the hospital. Not interested in a debate over how much anyone learns in ICU, ED, etc, LOL, just that I think med-surg gets a bad rep and then the newbie assumes they are 'worth' more than starting there. When the reality is, if your skills and attitude can't cut it in my surgical unit, WE get rid of YOU, not the other way around. /Defense of med-surg