I notice some students or others seem to think that because they've heard about a nursing shortage, that means that they will get a day position in their dream unit, and be welcomed with open arms as if they are the reserve troops come to save the day.
I don't think that's really the case. You still have to take the less desirable shifts, prove yourself, be accepted by your co-workers, and earn respect. Yes, there are toxic units, and those ones are probably more in need of extra help, so you might be more likely to get a job there.
If you are a newbie, you still have to 'pay your dues' in some way, that's usually the way life works in many arenas.
Thing is, I'm seeing WAY too many people here taking the position that we (more experienced staff) must simply be jealous of their formidable negotiating skills and ambitions because we aren't excited to see them coming. Rather, it's that we are tired of HEARING them coming, orienting them, training them....and having them stomp away in search of the pot of gold (that isn't really there) because no one recognizes their incredible worth. It's tiresome.
Truthfully, I think I understand where you are coming from. There are many out there that have the attitude that you describe. But also, there are a lot of seasoned staff that are burnt from those that come in with that sense of an entitlement & have taken it out on all new grads that come in. You know the type, the ones that look at every little thing somebody else does and complain about it.
It just seems, from what you have said, that you expect most new grads to have that bad attitude. What I am seeing is a lot of new nurses coming to the realization that it is a lot harder finding their first job, than they originally thought. Just look around here at those threads where they question the nursing shortage or are having a hard time getting a new grad position. Now, I am not saying those, which you refer to, do not exist. They are easy to spot in their first week on the job and if ignored, they will go away. They are the ones not even worth getting upset about because no matter what they get from anyone else, it isn't good enough. Personally, I am happy when they leave because it makes room for someone else who may turn out to be a diamond in the ruff.
i had a senior student that was in her last semester who had to take 3 of my patients so i told her well do this first and then this and then this you have to learn to prioritize trying to help her but know how it really is on the floor she stated to me no i am not going to take care of patients like this (tele) i am going straight to the nicu and perferably level iii i was like ok let her learn on her own
I'm also a recent grad and older student who felt valuable based on my work ethic, past work and life experience. Since I'm in an area that has a nursing shortage I absolutely did apply and get hired into a speciality at a pay rate that is about 40% higher than my peers who went into med-surge. While I do agree that "paying your dues" with a year in med-surge is a wise way to start a nursing career since it was possible for me to get a more preferrable, higher paying position right out of school that is what I decided to do.
I totally respect my more experienced collegues and try to be very humble so they will help me continue to learn and grow. Based on the previous posts here I guess the only gray cloud would be my shifts but its a non-issue for me because I'll work any time and if all the sudden I'm worth an extra $10 or $15 an hour for weekends/nights sign me up. :)
I'm a new grad who doesn't have a sense of entitlement, but I did go out and get what I wanted. I'm a second career/second BS student, and I talked up my customer service experience in my interviews. I wanted to get into a specific critical care internship program, and I did everything I could to make sure I got it - but I also applied for med-surg jobs elsewhere in case it didn't work out. I knew I was going up against nurses with experience and that they could only hire so many, so I kept my options open. I got the job, and I don't see any reason to work med-surg instead (especially when I get a 6 month orientation here) just to "pay my dues."
That being said - I fully expect to work nights, and that's OK, because I don't function very well when I have to wake up in the AM. When I was asked in my interview, "how do you feel about working holidays?" I laughed, and said that I wouldn't have gone into nursing if I expected to have them all off. The NM said, "well, you wouldn't believe how many people waltz in here and say they expect to work M-F days with holidays off! Obviously, we don't hire them!" Although I'd rather not work all weekend every weekend (unless my hospital starts doing the Baylor plan and pays me for it), I also expect that I'll probably have a weekend shift every week.
I don't think I'm better than anyone - in fact, I know that I basically get to start from scratch in my education - but I also don't need to act like a doormat. I'm not going to volunteer to work every holiday just because I'm new, but I'll work the ones I'm assigned without complaint. Of course, I've never had a job that didn't require me to work holidays and weekends, and I expect to continue to work them as long as I'm a nurse.
Great post, and I bolded the part which I think applies most to this thread.
As I stated previously, I think a lot of the posters in this thread are not getting it. I think they should read your post!
ScorpioStudent: your post is a good one. I do see two thread thoughts emerging (actually, three, the third one being "so screw you I got what I wanted", rather lovely).
I am in total agreement with the thoughts of the OP: there is a sense of entitlement that is borne on the shoulders of far too many new graduates and it's irksome at best to those of us who have a clue how the real world of nursing works. Yes, there's truth to the idea that they will eventually figure it out, but still--why must I listen to it while they do it? Time was, when a new grad didn't engage in the rant "but they NEED me, WHY can't they give me M-F, no weekends, no holidays, TOP pay, and put me in the management training program next week??"
Newbies in any field should expect to not have all their first requests granted simply because they have arrived. That's the point of the OP, I believe.
Beyond that, I don't know anyone personally who actually resents a new grad for getting what he or she wants in terms of assignment, etc, because WE have those same options, if not better. The new grad at our facility (any in the region, actually) comes in at a set rate of pay; they aren't worth more than that, period. Now, as to what unit, what shifts, that's up to the needs of the unit, isn't it? And if *I* wanted that job, well....I'd have it. I don't understand the thinking that we'd be resentful of someone who worked a somehow "better" arrangement, because WE COULD have those same arrangements, and ahead of the newbie, to be sure.
Thing is, I'm seeing WAY too many people here taking the position that we (more experienced staff) must simply be jealous of their formidable negotiating skills and ambitions because we aren't excited to see them coming. Rather, it's that we are tired of HEARING them coming, orienting them, training them....and having them stomp away in search of the pot of gold (that isn't really there) because no one recognizes their incredible worth. It's tiresome.
Many experienced nurses aren't jealous, per se, but there are plenty of them that are. I also agree with you that whining should not be going on..but, the cold hard fact is in many areas of the country, you can negotiate for what you want, even as a newbie. The times have changed. When I graduated, I had a job lined up at one step above the entry level rate.(I had previous OR experience) I was being actively recruited by other area hospitals. Why take a job with hours I don't want when there are plenty of other places to work?
I would never be so conceited to think I was God's greatest gift to nursing and that was why I should get what I want. But, if the hospitals in your area are willing to give you what you want, I think you should take it. I suppose that's opportunistic of me, but I intend to be in this career for the long haul. You have to look after yourself, because others surely won't do it for you.
Well I'm going to have to disagree with some people here. :)
As a new grad I knew exactly what I wanted. Monday to Friday 8am to 5pm. It took me all of 8 months to achieve this and I'm not ever doing shift work again. Not all people are interested in working shift work and bedside nursing. I refuse to work ridiculous hours and have no life. There are areas where you can work the mon-fri.
And to be honest IMHO I found that bedside nursing for me was the absolute pits. I hated it and counted down the days. At the end of my surgical ward placement I loathed patients and their whinging family members. I just went to work, did my job and left. I had no interest at all in what I was doing. Then I went to the OR and just LOVED it. (Having some probs now but I still love the job, just hate management, unrealistic expectations and certain doctors.)
I get tired of the senior nurses expecting the better shifts, better patient loads, better everything like longer breaks, "I'm not scrubbing for long cases any more you young ones can do it" because they've been there for so long. As a new graduate nurse when I worked at the bedside they gave me all the crap shifts, patient loads because i was new. I firmly believe in equality and my opinion is, if you can't work the same as everyone else and be fair, then it's time for you to leave. I'm against these self-righteous nurses 'back in my day we did it this way,new nurses never argued or spoke back to senior nurses, i'm owed these priveleges'. Bah, I just think 'well back in your day they didnt' even have anti-discrimination laws so spare me your rubbish'.
You know I really love working with students and new graduates who have these dreams of getting a fantastic job doing what they love, who have the ambition to make nursing a more respectable profession. I tell them that they probably need a reality check because you have to have clinical experience to get anywhere in nursing. But I always tell them to follow their dreams and do what you can to get where you want.
Many experienced nurses aren't jealous, per se, but there are plenty of them that are. I also agree with you that whining should not be going on..but, the cold hard fact is in many areas of the country, you can negotiate for what you want, even as a newbie. The times have changed. When I graduated, I had a job lined up at one step above the entry level rate.(I had previous OR experience) I was being actively recruited by other area hospitals. Why take a job with hours I don't want when there are plenty of other places to work?
I would never be so conceited to think I was God's greatest gift to nursing and that was why I should get what I want. But, if the hospitals in your area are willing to give you what you want, I think you should take it. I suppose that's opportunistic of me, but I intend to be in this career for the long haul. You have to look after yourself, because others surely won't do it for you.
What is it that makes you think that seasoned nurses are jealous?
I've been a nurse for a little over two years now. I went into nursing in my thirties after my children were a little older because it's not something I could do when they were younger. I was a single parent with child care and financial issues. I also had extenuating circumstances with a disabled child to deal with. With some life experience under my belt I felt well quailified to handle being a nurse and I did start my nursing career starry eyed and ready to go! However, life is the best teacher! lol...it really is like becoming a new parent...as someone said. Its easy to say...I'll never do that...then the baby comes and you learn real fast what you'll never do! I never thought i'd get the best of everything...but i didnt think it would be so difficult...just like parenting. The more experienced nurses complained about being burned out on orienting new grads, and complained that we weren't taught the same things they were in nursing school....it made for a tough environment to walk onto the floor for work feeling unwelcomed. But like all things it does get easier. I don't feel completely new anymore...definately not seasoned...but not brand new. I'm thankful for what I can learn from coworkers everyday. Someday I hope to be the one someone else can learn from. As far as the whole paying dues concept goes....there will always be someone who has "payed more dues" than you have. You just have to be a team player and that means playing by the team rules (which usually means weekends and holidays)!
Typically in a situation where demand is high and supply is low, the person with the desired item, skill, knowledge etc. has a lot of leverage and thus the right to make some demands. In that way, I don't think the newbies are wrong to have high expectations.
Unfortunately the culture of nursing is that there are very few concessions to be made for not only new nurses but experienced ones as well. Thus we have people who believe that all new grads must work nights even if there are open days and that everyone must work weekends even if weekends are well covered. There have been weekends I went in and there wasn't enough places for everyone to stand. But you gotta be there, it's your weekend to work. God forbid you should attempt to negotiate down to every 3rd weekend that would be just wrong for a nurse.
So what often happens is this all or none attitude: either you work every other weekend + 3 holidays or nothing. They would rather not hire someone rather than give a little because it's wrong for nurses to go outside the lines. As a result we have an artificial shortage because there is no give and take. People think there is a lot of flexibility in nursing but the truth is that there is a pretty rigid structure in hospital nursing in particular and it's almost universal.
If a new nurse can negotiate a better work schedule and more pay than I started with 17 years ago then good for them. I don't care for this paying your dues line of thought.
Many experienced nurses aren't jealous, per se, but there are plenty of them that are. I also agree with you that whining should not be going on..but, the cold hard fact is in many areas of the country, you can negotiate for what you want, even as a newbie. The times have changed. When I graduated, I had a job lined up at one step above the entry level rate.(I had previous OR experience) I was being actively recruited by other area hospitals. Why take a job with hours I don't want when there are plenty of other places to work?
I would never be so conceited to think I was God's greatest gift to nursing and that was why I should get what I want. But, if the hospitals in your area are willing to give you what you want, I think you should take it. I suppose that's opportunistic of me, but I intend to be in this career for the long haul. You have to look after yourself, because others surely won't do it for you.
There's no argument there. And I had to smile at the "times have changed" comment; those who have 'known' me on these boards know I have two years' of nursing time under my belt! I'm hardly an old war horse And so no, it's not that "times have changed" and there's confusion because of that. It's that some things NEVER change: the acceptance that there's no such thing as a free lunch, that hard work usually pays off in the long run, and that the fast, easy way to making a fortune tends to turn out to be a hoax.
The ability of the new grad to find lots of great opportunities DOES exist; NO ONE is claiming you should work for cr@p 'just because'. We ARE saying that there seems to be an increasing attitude amongst the younger set, everywhere, that someone owes them some kind of special privileges because they are....there.
That's it, that's the whole message, the whole point.
Get yourself the best arrangement you can (I wonder how many times I've said that on this thread alone??). But don't stomp and whine and blame the administration for not giving you everything you want because you have graced them with your presence (not YOU, of course...I mean "you" as in the 'I'm Here, Bow To Me' set.
You know I really love working with students and new graduates who have these dreams of getting a fantastic job doing what they love, who have the ambition to make nursing a more respectable profession. I tell them that they probably need a reality check because you have to have clinical experience to get anywhere in nursing. But I always tell them to follow their dreams and do what you can to get where you want.
I got rid of the rest of your post, because this last paragraph is what addresses the purpose of this thread.
Once again, I'll repeat: everyone should do their best to get the best job they can, in the best arrangement for themselves (I should set this phrase to a 'fast key', LOL). However, and it's a BIG however, simply because you graduated from nursing school does not qualify you for all the best opportunities, and whining that administration doesn't understand how great you'd be, or that you shouldn't have to learn "all that stuff" in whatever unit is open because YOU are going to be in xx specialty asap is really annoying.
Glad you found what you wanted in eight months. And it TOOK eight months, in Australia I'll note. Here in the States, sometimes you can find what you want ten minutes out of school, or not for many months, as you found.
But the whole point is not that you should settle for what you don't want, but rather get a CLUE about what you are and are not qualified to do. Lost track of how many almost-grads or new grads have asked why they can't get paid the six figures, do travel nursing, become a level 3 ICU specialist with zero experience. That's the point.
I think what a lot of us "newbies" see is grumpy old veteran nurses who DO resent when new grads get good shifts. The point of my post was to tell other newbies to ignore the whiny melo-drama and push on without feeling guilt for not paying as many dues as nurses did years ago.
That's sad, if that's truly the case, that THAT is what you are seeing. As I've said before, I don't see veteran nurses (omitting the "grumpy old" part, as it's hardly appropriate) viewing the newbies as jealous that the newbies got good shifts. And, again, "good shifts" is quite subjective. If we WANTED to work the shift you are applying for, don't you think we'd have it? So, it's not that.
With all of two years' time under my belt, certainly the "dues nurses paid years ago" doesn't apply to me, either. But I'm also not 22, and the work ethic I was raised with does not include whining that I didn't get everything I want, that someone else "cheated" me out of a position, that "they" should be paying me more because I'm....well....ME. It's the Entitlement Generation, and it's definitely not limited to nursing. So, the "whiny melodrama" is a matter of perspective.
Veterans aren't insisting you do a year or two of hard time, LOL, just that you shouldn't expect your first interview to result in getting GOBS more money than anyone else, no scheduling concessions, no impediment on your social life whatsoever. There's a tendency among the newbies (YOUNG newbies, btw, NOT second or third career nurses) to think that because they have arrived, their lives take priority and their wants take precedence. They don't.
And so no, it's not that "times have changed" and there's confusion because of that. It's that some things NEVER change: the acceptance that there's no such thing as a free lunch, that hard work usually pays off in the long run, and that the fast, easy way to making a fortune tends to turn out to be a hoax.
loricatus
1,446 Posts
Truthfully, I think I understand where you are coming from. There are many out there that have the attitude that you describe. But also, there are a lot of seasoned staff that are burnt from those that come in with that sense of an entitlement & have taken it out on all new grads that come in. You know the type, the ones that look at every little thing somebody else does and complain about it.
It just seems, from what you have said, that you expect most new grads to have that bad attitude. What I am seeing is a lot of new nurses coming to the realization that it is a lot harder finding their first job, than they originally thought. Just look around here at those threads where they question the nursing shortage or are having a hard time getting a new grad position. Now, I am not saying those, which you refer to, do not exist. They are easy to spot in their first week on the job and if ignored, they will go away. They are the ones not even worth getting upset about because no matter what they get from anyone else, it isn't good enough. Personally, I am happy when they leave because it makes room for someone else who may turn out to be a diamond in the ruff.