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Socialized Medicine the myths and the facts

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Having worked in a country which has socialized medicine I can certainly see the pit falls and the benefits. What I don't understand is the fear behind having socialized medicine In my opinion socialized medicine has more positive benefits than negative benefits.

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN. Has 26 years experience.

Socialized Medicine the myths and the facts

The first and the most obvious concern is the cost to the patient and their family, we all know how devastating an illness can be for patients and their family many times I have witnessed the despair when a diagnoses meant further treatment which insurances question and in some cases wont cover. I have seen patients needing costly drugs to keep them alive and being unable to afford them, causing repeated admissions to repair the damage so called none compliance has caused. The first question in none compliance is were the pts actually refusing to take their medication or was it simply they could not afford to buy their medication because they don't have enough money and other bills need to be paid first? If the real reason is the cost then surely it would be more simple of we provided these medications at a more effective price or that all medications cost $5 no matter what they had? Outrageous I hear you shout but the cost of the repeated admission is far more costly than by helping prevent a repeat admission, by providing medicine they can afford.

How about blood tests could these not be done in the doctors office before the pt leaves for home and forgets to go and have a blood draw, or simply cannot get to the lab to have them drawn. I have personally waited in doctors office hours (and paid for the privilege) then been sent to the lab, miles away to sit and wait for blood work to be done. Why could the doctors not employ somebody to be at the office to draw blood on patients?

We should be looking at improving preventative medicine rather than patch it up and see.

Many times I have seen patients discharged with a new diagnoses of diabetes, no follow up at home can be organised because in my city nothing exists to assist these people. There should be a diabetic home nurse who monitors these patients in their own home-rationale, this would again help prevent admissions for diabetic complications, and none compliance.

So you wonder what has this got to do with socialized medicine. Well, in the UK if you have...

  • Children
  • Over 60 for women and over 65 for men
  • Diabetes
  • Asthma
  • Thyroid problems, etc...

...then you get all your medicines for free.

There are in place specialized RN's who focus is on preventative care in the community. There are telephone help lines which anybody can utilize for free.

Maternity care is free a midwife will be assigned to you for the duration of your pregnancy and up to 6 weeks later. The cost of the birth-nothing no matter how you deliver.

I have been asked what kind of care do you receive in a socialized medicine country and I ask them, I am a product of socialized medicine you tell me how my care differs from nurses who have paid outrageous amounts of money to train as a nurse?

Of course even in the UK you can have private care if you chose to pay, this is an advantage if you need hip replacements, knee replacements, eye surgeries-other wise you may have to wait. There are initiatives in place to reduce waiting times for surgeries in the NHS and I hear that dr's can now book surgeries from their office at hospitals all over the UK which helps reduce waiting times, plus hospitals get fined if they don't meet their quota.

I agree MRI's and CT's are not as freely available, but again initiatives are in place to improve the waiting times. Emergency care no different all patients will receive emergency care.

Poor conditions yes there are poor hospitals and there are excellent hospitals, no different to Phoenix AZ.

Questions??

RN with 26 years of experience many of those years spent in dialysis. I have worked in acute care, home, ICHD as a CN, FA, and currently a director.

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Hey madwife. i agree with you completely . i am not sure why people are so against it. i have heard a lot of nurses say, if we get socialized medicine nurses will not be paid as well as they do. so if its not broken ,don't fix it which is totally stupid.

ambermichelle

Specializes in nursing family members with rare disease.

Yes, I do have a question that I have been wondering about for a long time regarding coverage in countries with socialized medicine.

My son is a hemophiliac and his medications (Recombinate, Factor VIII) are unaffordable (unless you are a millionaire) without private medical insurance here. Because he does have insurance, it is provided for a very small copay. This coverage is from his dad's employer and will last as long as he is a college student and under 25, but that is not much longer. He is hoping to get a good job after graduation but it is uncertain.

His protocol is prophylaxis--he gives himself an IV infusion every other day to prevent spontaneous bleeding. He needs this protocol because when he was on the "treat only when bleeding occurs" protocol that many hemophiliacs are on, he had frequent crippling joint bleeding in the knee and elbow, a subdural hematoma, an ab bleed as big as your fist, and a shoulder joint bleed as big as a football pad which could have cost him his arm.

No private insurance company would cover my son except under an employer's group policy. If in the future my son does not have coverage, it is my understanding that the local county cannot afford prophylaxis though it may provide emergency treatment if bleeding occurs. However a bleed normally requires multiple treatments 12 hours apart.

Would this medication be provided under the UK system? As prophylaxis? Also, do they cover most kinds of chemotherapy?

Thanks.

Shaka

Specializes in Staff Nurse-OB primary.

I have several questions...

1) What are the salaries for health providers?

2) What are the waiting times for procedures needed, on average?

3) What are the working conditions...i.e. nurse/patient ratio, hours worked on average, acuity of patients cared for in a patient mix?

4) Is there a cap for some health problems...i.e. alcoholism, drug addiction, psyche diagnoses?

5) How much are taxes in the UK and how much goes to health care?

6) Are you in the UK working? and if not why? (don't mean to be personal) just want to know.

Thanks for your perspective...

colta

Specializes in None Yet.

This is a very interesting thread topic. Coming from Canada, we have socialized health care as well, but I do not believe that it is a comprehensive here as it is in the UK.

But kudos to the author of this thread for the brilliant idea.

I'm Canadian. The best thing about our health care system is that in your daily life, you never have to think about affording care or not. You see your doctor or receive hospital care and you never get a bill. Our health care covers us no matter what province we are in when we need the care.

Catastrophic injury or illness? Same thing--you receive the care and no bills.

As nurses, we are paid well. And we don't have to worry about our patients' insurance covering this or that--we just look after them.

No system is perfect--there some community services that should be covered, especially for the elderly who need help with ADL's but I think that will come eventually. We could use better coverage for dental and drugs than we currently have, but people can get private insurance plans for that at relatively low cost.

Where health care is FOR PROFIT, that's when it becomes exclusionary and expensive. That's when it becomes an expense like any other in daily life. I would be so afraid to live in the USA where my coverage was a matter of ongoing concern.

gonzo1, ASN, RN

Specializes in ED, ICU, PSYCH, PP, CEN. Has 18 years experience.

My GERD is acting up really bad due to the economy and work related stress. I got the ER doc to write me a script for nexium because it works really well for me.

When I went to get it filled the cost would be 178$ for 30 pills. I don't have any insurance right now and can't afford that. So it is OTC pepcid for now.

This is just rediculous.

I'm in between travel jobs right now and per diem shifts have dried up. I never thought I would have this problem as a nurse.

I do believe everyone should have access to free healthcare. I think we would see a big improvement if people were receiving preventive care instead of patch up the leaks care.

Mimi2RN, ASN, RN

Specializes in NICU. Has 27 years experience.

I'm from the UK, so I appreciate the fact that you don't have to worry about getting medical care.

My biggest worry about retirement is paying for a supplementary policy for my husband and myself, as well as as prescription plan. Of course, Medicare costs as much as my insurance right now for both of us. We won't have any dental or vision coverage. My brother and his wife came here to live, and left after two years because they couldn't deal with medical bills.

I wouldn't mind paying more in taxes if we didn't have to pay for our health care. At least we wouldn't be support big business. Insurance companies are not non-profit!

My youngest son has never had health insurance since he grew up. He has always worked, but most restaurants don't provide benefits. We need socialized medicine, and the sooner the better!

XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN

Specializes in Advanced Practice, surgery. Has 33 years experience.

ambermichelle said:

would this medication be provided under the uk system? as prophylaxis? also, do they cover most kinds of chemotherapy?

thanks.

yes your sons treatment would be covered in the uk, the nhs tends to be proactive when it comes to preventative and prophylaxis treatments.

chemotherapy is covered, but we are guided by something called the national institute for clinical excellence, this is an organisation made up of clinicians who review current literature and evaluate new treatments before recommending them. you may find some of the very expensive cancer drugs (the life prolonging drugs) are not covered because they are not always effective and because nhs resources are limited cost effectiveness is considered. this does not mean that you are not treated if you need chemo, what it means is there are a few expensive and rarely used drugs that will not be recommended for use because of cost effectiveness

shaka said:
i have several questions...

1) what are the salaries for health providers? depends on expereince and what job you do, a nurse can earn from £20,710 as a newly qualified nurse on the lowest band to £39,000 as a ward manager / charge nurse. senior nurses and lead nurses / specialists can earn from £39,000 up to £60,000 per year. we have 29 days paid holiday a year and 8 paid bank holidays. we get full sick pay for up to 6 months should you need it and then half pay for the next 6 months.

2) what are the waiting times for procedures needed, on average? we have waiting time targets, so your emergency care would be seen and treated straight away, there is a target of 4 hours in the emergency units for non urgent pateints and if your classed as a catagory 1 then you must be treated within the hour. urgent treatment (so for cancers for example) you must be seen, assessed diagnosed and treated within 31 days. for elective procedures which are non urgent (hernias, gall bladders, some orthopaedic surgery) there is a target of 26 weeks, so this would be from gp referral to outpatient appointment to definative treatment.

3) what are the working conditions...i.e. nurse/patient ratio, hours worked on average, acuity of patients cared for in a patient mix? we work 37.5 hours a week, this is the standard contract for a nhs nurse, you can if you want work extra but there are no implications for you job if you choose not to. nurse / patient ratio depends on where you work. in icu you will get a 1:1 ratio, on hospital wards it can be anything from 7 :1 in some good areas to 15:1 in others. it really does depend on where you work.

4) is there a cap for some health problems...i.e. alcoholism, drug addiction, psyche diagnoses? no

5) how much are taxes in the uk and how much goes to health care? if i earn £40,000 per year i pay £10,000 in deductions in income tax and national insurance. (i think this is about 30% )

6) are you in the uk working? and if not why? (don't mean to be personal) just want to know. madwife doesn't work in the uk, but i do :D

thanks for your perspective...

Shaka

Specializes in Staff Nurse-OB primary.

sharrie said:
Yes your sons treatment would be covered in the UK, the NHS tends to be proactive when it comes to preventative and prophylaxis treatments.

Chemotherapy is covered, but we are guided by something called the National Institute for Clinical Excellence, this is an organisation made up of clinicians who review current literature and evaluate new treatments before recommending them. You may find some of the very expensive cancer drugs (the life prolonging drugs) are not covered because they are not always effective and because NHS resources are limited cost effectiveness is considered. This does not mean that you are not treated if you need chemo, what it means is there are a few expensive and rarely used drugs that will not be recommended for use because of cost effectiveness

I appreciate the information Sharrie, I am not familiar with pounds vs dollars, maybe someone could convert it for me.

Shaka

madwife2002, BSN, RN

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN. Has 26 years experience.

€1= $1.40 (aprox it depends on the exchange rate)

I work in Arizona I worked in the Uk for 16 years I came to live and work in America because I have family here and I wanted to live close to them, but laugh they live in Ohio so we are still living a long way from them. My dh and dd love Arizona so we are here to stay.

I miss my job in the Uk I find many restrictions here in the US but I work with a great bunch of people so I am lucky.

I do get concerned re the the financial side of medical care here in the US and the worries families have re affording care, something I had never experienced before especially as pts have enough worry with coping with their illnesses without worrying about money.

talaxandra

Specializes in Medical.

madwife and others have spoken about the uk system. from an aussie perspective:

the australian red cross blood service manages blood products. employees are paid according to their award; donors are vounteers who are not paid (unless you count a snack and juice). all blood products are free.

i have several questions...

1) what are the salaries for health providers?

it depends on the usual variables, like experience, level of qualification, and shifts worked. pay rates vary from state to state but awards cover all public service employees with the same conditions within the state/territory, and private hospital conditions are similar. check payscale for a more accurate guide to median wages.

because public hospital care in the norm, most health care providers work within the public health care system, either wholly or primarily. this includes nurses (i have several friends who work part time at my hospital and part time at a nearby acute private hospital) but also consultants.

2) what are the waiting times for procedures needed, on average?

data from the latest released australian institute of health and welfare data.

obviously there's huge variation across specialties and states.

across the country the median waiting time for all elective surgery was 28 - 32 days from 2002 - 2007. in 90% of cases patients were admitted within 226 days (2006-7), with 3.1% waiting more than 365 days. ophalthamology had the longest median time 71 days), followed by orthopedics (50 days), while cardiothoracic waiting times were the shortest (12 days). median cags waiting time - 17 days; total knee replacement - 162 days.

3) what are the working conditions...i.e. nurse/patient ratio, hours worked on average, acuity of patients cared for in a patient mix?

victoria was the first place in the world to have mandated nurse/patient ratios. i work in an acute tertiary hospital - i have 4 patients by day and 8 overnight. every shift has a supernumerary resource nurse (this is not aways the case of nights). it is illegal in victoria acute hospitals to pay unregistered staff to perform nursing duties, so we do not (in principle) have pcas.

on my ward we allocate geographically. tonight, for example, i have the first eight beds, which is the (primarily) id area. my patients include:

- a patient on 6/24 antibiotics through a hickman's for a a spinal abscess;

- a new admit with ?sbe ?aids-defining illness on triple antibiotics

- an esrf patients in isolation after contact with a h1n1 patient

- a new admission with ?h1n1

- a new admission with ?tb

- a renal patient with peritonitis on intra-peritoneal antibiotics

it's 01:30, i'm up to date on my charting and medications, all my patients are asleep (i'm still waiting on one of the admits), everyone else is under control, the resource nurse is on a break and i have time to chat on allnurses, so the acuity's fine for now. we certainly have frantic shifts, but getting extra staff when the work load's ridiculous isn't usually a problem. for example, our transplants are specialled for 24 hours post-op, rounded up to the nearest shift (so that if they arrive from theatre at 3am they get a special until the end of the next night shift). if the transplant patient's unwell, though, we can get an extra to special for another shift without any drama.

i work 38 hours a week. on occasion i run over my shift by half an hour or so, which is paid. if i want to work overtime i can make myself available but work never call asking me to work. if there's a shortfall, for example for the next shift, i'll be asked if i can work but there's no pressure to do so. if i do work a double shift and have to then miss my rostered shift i get paid for it. so if i was supposed to work a pm (1300 - 2130) then an am (0700 - 1530) but do a pm/nd double i get paid: 8 hours usual rate, 2 hours time and a half, 8 hours double time, then 8 hours usual rate for the missed shift. that's 18 hours work and 35 hours pay.

4) is there a cap for some health problems...i.e. alcoholism, drug addiction, psyche diagnoses?

no.

5) how much are taxes in [australia] and how much goes to health care?

i earn mid-tier wages ($34,000 - $80,000 pa). my taxes are calculated at $4,200 + 30c for every $1 over $34,000, less salary packaging and deductable expenses, like those for work, self-education and charitable contributions. tax is taken out of my pay every fortnight; at the end of the financial year i lodge a tax return with all my deductable expenses and either owe the government (has happened once in 20 years) or get a refund.

healthcare funding comes from the medicare levy is an additional 1.5% tax, calculated on my taxble income. if my annual salary were $65,000 that works out to $975. as i have chosen not to take out private health insurance, i would also pay an additional surcharge of 1%. which comes to another $325.

i fully support universal health care. if i were seriously ill i would vastly prefer to be in a public hospital, where i believe the care is better even if the surroundings and food are less aesthetically pleasing. i have twice had elective orthodontic surgery in private hospitals, where i paid my own way. i didn't have to wait, the service was fine, and though expensive my overnight stays were reasonably priced.

i've also had non-elective surgery, for a broken, finger, in the hospital where i work. two hours after presenting to ed i'd been: assessed by a triage and a fast-track nurse; x-rayed; seen by resident, registrar and surgeon; fitted for a splint by hand therapy; and booked in for surgery. i had a k-wire inserted the following week, had outpatient plastics and hand therapy follow up for 3 months, and just had a two year check up. the whole thing cost me about $30, for a box each of endone and paracetamol, and a course of antibiotics.

eta: to convert currencies you can visit www.xe.com - it provides real time excahnge rates and converts any quantity, very valuable for those of us planning an overseas trip :)

Edited by talaxandra
Typo

I worked in small, specialized hospitals, middle size to university hospitals in Germany, 8 years plus 5 years in ICU.

I can say that I always could give my patients the treatment I would wish to obtain:nurse:! Altough we had a luck of staff sometimes and very hard to work:bugeyes:, on medical ward, neurology, kardiology and ICU. I gave patients antibiotics , pain killer, special bandages, IV's... as appropriate for this illness, doesn't matter if the person is homeless or CEO of a company. Specially in ICU every patient received everything, except there was no chance and an agreement with the family and all disziplines to stop the treatment and let the client go, in an ethical and moral way and without pain. If I suggested a therapy, as competent nurse, in 95 % the doctor agreed with me and prescribed it. Prevention is very well promoted. If you live healthy, for example you have a normal weight, you participate in a fitness club... you get points and a lower insurence rate:lol2:. Magazines, brochures, TV and lessons keep you up to date how to get healtier( here the focus is more how to get beautiful, they don't care if you are healthy:smokin: or not).There are sufficient programs for mental ill or homeless people. The society general has more knowledge what healhty livestyle and nutrition is, in my opinion.

However I know there are negative sides as well. People abuse the system, get a bunch of treatments unnecessary... go to the doctor for every little issue. Others immigrate just for this reasons, not because they love the country, they just want to use taxpayer money and never want to pay in the system. Some new, innovative techniques or procedures might be available in United States first, because here is more money through the privatized medizine.

Now it starts too, that the healthcare system gets more and more privatized in my homecountry. I didn't work as nurse here, my visa is in process.

Don't understand me wrong, I don't wanna judge! I'm bias. I just want to tell you about my experience.:bow:

Jeanny

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lamazeteacher

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

I wish the "s" word could be left out of peoples' minds regarding "universal" plans such as the Canadian, French, British, and most European countries.

China and Russia, both "socialist" countries have dismal medical systems, which friends of mine who lived there say is backward and inferior to other counties' technological and "state of the art" treatments. Nursing care is abysmal and families have to come to assist patients in hospitals and bring them food.

I wish Michael Moore had included those countries in "Sicko". I visited Chinese clinics there, 23 years ago and was appalled at the lack of supplies, medications, and especially the lack of hygiene (like hand washing stations). Dirt floors were at the clinic in a "commune", and nothing had been dusted in eons...... There's a reason for "flu" (the usual one for which we get yearly shots) originating there.

The preparations that have taken place for 3 years by physicians here in the USA involve the negotiation of affordable pricing for medications, and regional assignment of new expensive radiological equipment which is not appropriately utilized when every hospital has it. Utilization of computer technology for charting everything; and assistance with diagnosis and treatment will greatly lessen time spent in hospital by patients. The prevelance of nosocomial infections (especially "superbugs") will decrease when many procedures, such as transfusions and day surgeries, that can be done more appropriately in outpatient settings, keep people out of hospitals.

Doctors entering medical school will do so in the future, because they have a yen to help people, know more about bodily quirks and progressive treatment, not to make more money than it's possible to spend in a lifetime. Physicians working in countries with "universal" care earn salaries consistent with a good upper middle class lifestyle. The criteria for recognition of superior practitioners will be for those who show initiative, accurate diagnoses, appropriate logical treatment plans; and bedside manners that support ill patients of all classes of life equally (well, the latter may be "pie in the sky" hoping).

Those whose wish is to sabotage the above, use the word "socialized", as Americans have been brought up with propoganda designed to promote loathing for that. The purge of many Americans in the '50s, by Senator McCarthy is remembered by our grandparents; and communism as it was portrayed then, was greatly feared due to repercussions during "McCarthyism".

Pure socialism isn't possible I think, without voluntary involvement of people in agreement with that philosophy. A whole country trying to perform in a way that leaders decree is equal for all, have failed due to the lack of all people wanting it. Many have been negatively treated (to put it mildly) for lack of adherence to stern protocols having nothing to do with socialism.

In Israel there are a few Kibbutzim (plural for Kibbutz) that practise it ideally, where the people there understand it, there aren't those who want more than their equal share, and there's enough for everyone. The duties performed by members are those that are considered by each individual to be what they want to do most. Those who love to care for children, do that and parents visit their offspring, rather than have them with them all the time. If someone has leanings toward business, and the educational preparation, they do the buying and selling for the others there. Those who want to farm, manufacture, etc. do that. There are rich ones and less advantageous ones. People can move from one to another freely, but need to be accepted by the place to which they go, because of their common philosophy and skills.

All people in Israel have universal healthcare, even tourists and Arabs who don't wish to live separately. The level of care is equal, and in some facilities are superior to those in North America. The tiny camera used to relay pictures of the upper GI tract and small intestine was invented there. Stem cell research has been done there much longer than it has been here, with some considerable success in curing diseases. Controversial religious resistance to utilizing very young fetal stem cells doesn't exist there. Preservation of umbilical cord blood stem cells at full term birth is practised widely.

Hello Jeany,

I hope you find a nice hospital to work in and nice people to work with. I worked in Germany also, a good while back. My Army Reserve unit is in Germany and my husband is German so I go back quite often. I work 'PRN' agency in the US. I do not have health care in the US, but as long as I can get on the plane to Germany I can get health care if I need it. There is something wrong with this picture, my own country, the USA, cannot give me health care, but a country a little bigger than Texas can!!!

I agree, health care in Germany has it's share of problems, but, depending on where you live, you will be shocked to see that a very large group of Americans get free health care also; those who don't work, and have no income (that they claim), and others who have figured out the system get everything they want here. 'The system' makes good money off these people because the govermnment picks up the bill for care for these people(Be careful about speaking freely to a 300 lb. drug addict, the 'Patinet Advocate' will bust you in a heart beat if the patient decides to make a complaint because you suggested to the patient that they might have fewer health problems if they loose weight or clean up thir lifestyle). It is the middle class, the very backbone of a country, that gets the shaft here in the US.

You will find that a lot of Americans are 'brainwashed', when they hear the word 'socialized', it is a 'red flag' to them and their brains immediatly shut down. Another term must be used to even open up an avenue of conversation.

If you are not in a teaching hospital, or in a hospital with 24 hour 'Hospitalist' doctors you will be astounded at how hard it is to get hold of a doctor in the middle of the night. Be careful about acting like you know what the patient might need. Some nurses and some doctors here do not take kindly to nurses that can actually use their knowledge and experence to come up with treatment options, they will accuse you of 'practicing medicine without a licence'.

Nursing in the US used to be 'team based', and you worked with people you knew and had relationships with. Nowdays you get your patient assignments, find the nurse who had the patients on the last shift, get report from that person and continue on with the treatment as written on the Kardex. It is very impersonal, and there is not much opprotunity for learning or interaction between staff. Often you will work with people you have never seen before and will never see again. Don't even think about sitting down together with the staff, doctor included, and having a cup of coffe and getting to know each other. This sort of interpersonal interaction is 'verboten' in American hospitals.

I which you the best, may you luck out and find a great place to work. You will make good money so you can enjoy other facets of life here in the US, just remember, here, it is all about the MONEY$$$$$

One thing to consider is that the UK and Canada is not the USA. You are comparing apples to oranges. In the USA our taxes would fly through the roof unless we stopped spending massive amounts of money in other areas. (Which I favor) Health care in the USA costs more because we provide more. Medicines in the USA cost more because we invent them. One thing I never hear people talking about is COMPETITION!! It seems people have an attitude that says, well our health care system is not working now so lets give up and try socialism. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN THE CUSTOMER (THE PATIENT) OUT OF THE PAYMENT FOR HEALTH CARE PICTURE AND REPLACED THEM WITH A THIRD PARTY THAT DOES NOT HOLD THE SELLER ACCOUNTABLE FOR PRICES THEY CHARGE. End of story! USA should be providing it's citizens with one thing and that is the freedom to provide for themselves. WE DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE WHEN IT'S GIVEN ON THE BACKS OF OTHERS! In as little as 100 years we have all forgotten that. Shameful!

lamazeteacher

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

My GERD is acting up really bad due to the economy and work related stress. I got the ER doc to write me a script for nexium because it works really well for me.

When I went to get it filled the cost would be $178 for 30 pills. I don't have any insurance right now and can't afford that. So it is OTC pepcid for now.

I do believe everyone should have access to free healthcare. I think we would see a big improvement if people were receiving preventive care instead of patch up the leaks care.

I have GERD, too. When the manufacturer of the Prevacid I was taking, stopped supplying samples to doctors, saying it was going to be available in generic form (after about 20 years, when trademark drugs are supposed to be in generic form by 7 years) I paid for it, depleting my savings, as I'm on other expensive medications.

If you aren't on a salt restricted diet, a pharmacist (at a discount pharmacy that didn't carry Prevacid) told me that taking NaCO2 with the Pepcid would make you as comfortable as proton pump inhibitors. However I am on a sodium restructed diet due to HTN, so I didn't do that. Check with your doctor before doing that!

You don't have to speak to too many anti universal care folks before hearing someone say, "I don't want my taxes spent on healthcare for someone too lazy to get a job!" The fallacy in that kind of thinking, is that after remitting the money you owe in taxes, it's not yours any more! It's not like a charitable donation that can be designated to a specific project......

Canadians were more than happy to have their health care plan at the beginning, and I was there, then! When I visit or talk to/email friends and family there, I ask if that type of thinking occurs in that country. They're shocked that anyone would have such a selfish thought! Now that there are some delays in treatment, those whose personalities are such that they don't assert their needs strongly enough, and who have the money, go to the United States to have treatment right away.

I laughed when I saw a young man (looking about 20-25 years) in a commercial on American TV, against universal healthcare who said that his heart problem woud not have been discovered, therefore not treated, in Canada. What it was wasn't mentioned, and from the gist of the comment, he appeared angry, and may not have gone for care in Canada for whatever it was. Being so stressed, his heart may have exhibited sounds or symptoms for an American (money hungry physician) that weren't there in Canada when he wasn't as stressed.

An orthopedic surgeon here in the USA booked me for a knee replacement, after I saw him once. I couldn't afford it, and asked for P.T. The therapist examined my knee very carefully and suggested some treatments and a knee band. That was 7 years ago, and the band has relieved the pain almost completely. I'm only aware of discomfort when I've walked a long time. I found out that the surgeon who wanted to do the surgical replacement, retired a week after he would have done it - one for the road, I guess. (By the way, I had a severe gastric bleed from taking NSAIDS that were enteric coated, before the knee band.)

I've been in the USA over 48 years, now struggling financially since I divorced my ex-husband and somehow reached 70 years of age with its physical toll. As many of you may not know, Medicare doesn't cover prescriptions, and Plan D is an insurance program dreamed up by insurance and pharmaceutical companies wherein you pay a premium to the company that manufactures your medicine. Well, how many people have more than one prescription manufactured by the same company? When I figured out how much the monthly premiums would be for all my prescribed medications, they were more than buying the medications!

I wish Americans cared more about their fellow inhabitants of this country who aren't as wealthy as they are, enough to embrace a health care program that conserves money, provides excellent well monitored care, excludes high priced insurance companies and their highly paid executives, and interior decorators that make hospitals look like 5 star resorts. We've all seen expensive treatment given insured people, that was unnecessary. With the rate of nosocomial infections climbing and prevalence of "super"bugs increasing, it's safer to treat patients at home, with Home Health nurses going in to plan and perform care there. A lot of teaching of preventive care and explanations of the rationale for treatments by them during home visits, lowers the cost of treatment, too.

Nurses will earn as much and possibly more, since another look at what we do, will cause more appreciation for our services, which should enlarge the budget for nursing care. Having nurses working in the administration of the Health and Human services Department will help that. :nurse:

lamazeteacher

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

One thing to consider is that the UK and Canada is not the USA. You are comparing apples to oranges. In the USA our taxes would fly through the roof unless we stopped spending massive amounts of money in other areas. (Which I favor) Health care in the USA costs more because we provide more. Medicines in the USA cost more because we invent them. One thing I never hear people talking about is COMPETITION!! It seems people have an attitude that says, well our health care system is not working now so lets give up and try socialism. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN THE CUSTOMER (THE PATIENT) OUT OF THE PAYMENT FOR HEALTH CARE PICTURE AND REPLACED THEM WITH A THIRD PARTY THAT DOES NOT HOLD THE SELLER ACCOUNTABLE FOR PRICES THEY CHARGE. End of story! USA should be providing it's citizens with one thing and that is the freedom to provide for themselves. WE DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE WHEN IT'S GIVEN ON THE BACKS OF OTHERS! In as little as 100 years we have all forgotten that. Shameful!

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You are so right! The apple for health is Canada; and the orange which looks the same as any other, but not all of them are sweet, is the USA!

I worked for Blue Cross, and one of the first things I was taught there (in fact it was drilled in), is that the "customer" is NOT the health care consumer, their employer is the client!

Please print your post 1a2s3d, and look at it in 30 years, after you may have cared for more and more people dying for lack of medical care, due to their inability to pay for it, while some sit tight in their mansions counting their jewels, minks, and money; and having baucchanal feasts with CEOs of pharmaceutical and health care insurance companies. :bowingpur

The lost collectables for hospitals will have rendered them infection ridden (like the "houses of pestilence" they were at the turn of the 20th century), technology and DME deficient, and cause Americans to go to Canada for safer more effective medical care. Of course you won't have to look at all the employees big businesses outsource, and for whom they don't need to provide any benefits or livable wages!! :bugeyes:

Perhaps you'll have lost your job, couldn't get another; and learned some humility and the value of caring enough about others that you'll commit to share a small portion of the country's wealth. The backs of extremely wealthy others are sufficiently large to help fellow humans, as they are the ones with enough do-re-me to feed those who starve in 3rd world countries, as well as cough up 5% of the amount they make over $250,000 yearly!! Hearing them whine about that is enough to cause deafness without benefit of money to pay for hearing aids.