Socialized Medicine the myths and the facts

[madwife2002]

The first and the most obvious concern is the cost to the patient and their family, we all know how devastating an illness can be for patients and their family many times I have witnessed the despair when a diagnoses meant further treatment which insurances question and in some cases wont cover. I have seen patients needing costly drugs to keep them alive and being unable to afford them, causing repeated admissions to repair the damage so called none compliance has caused. The first question in none compliance is were the pts actually refusing to take their medication or was it simply they could not afford to buy their medication because they don't have enough money and other bills need to be paid first? If the real reason is the cost then surely it would be more simple of we provided these medications at a more effective price or that all medications cost $5 no matter what they had? Outrageous I hear you shout but the cost of the repeated admission is far more costly than by helping prevent a repeat admission, by providing medicine they can afford.

How about blood tests could these not be done in the doctors office before the pt leaves for home and forgets to go and have a blood draw, or simply cannot get to the lab to have them drawn. I have personally waited in doctors office hours (and paid for the privilege) then been sent to the lab, miles away to sit and wait for blood work to be done. Why could the doctors not employ somebody to be at the office to draw blood on patients?

We should be looking at improving preventative medicine rather than patch it up and see.

Many times I have seen patients discharged with a new diagnoses of diabetes, no follow up at home can be organised because in my city nothing exists to assist these people. There should be a diabetic home nurse who monitors these patients in their own home-rationale, this would again help prevent admissions for diabetic complications, and none compliance.

So you wonder what has this got to do with socialized medicine. Well, in the UK if you have...

• Children
• Over 60 for women and over 65 for men
• Diabetes
• Asthma
• Thyroid problems, etc...

...then you get all your medicines for free.

There are in place specialized RN's who focus is on preventative care in the community. There are telephone help lines which anybody can utilize for free.

Maternity care is free a midwife will be assigned to you for the duration of your pregnancy and up to 6 weeks later. The cost of the birth-nothing no matter how you deliver.

I have been asked what kind of care do you receive in a socialized medicine country and I ask them, I am a product of socialized medicine you tell me how my care differs from nurses who have paid outrageous amounts of money to train as a nurse?

Of course even in the UK you can have private care if you chose to pay, this is an advantage if you need hip replacements, knee replacements, eye surgeries-other wise you may have to wait. There are initiatives in place to reduce waiting times for surgeries in the NHS and I hear that dr's can now book surgeries from their office at hospitals all over the UK which helps reduce waiting times, plus hospitals get fined if they don't meet their quota.

I agree MRI's and CT's are not as freely available, but again initiatives are in place to improve the waiting times. Emergency care no different all patients will receive emergency care.

Poor conditions yes there are poor hospitals and there are excellent hospitals, no different to Phoenix AZ.

Questions??

[lhomesrn]

Hmmm, These quotes can be read in different lights. To take selected quotes that are slanted to one's own opinion is bias. Public schools, post offices, and libraries are all for the common good. Once upon a time, so were hospitals. Capitalism can be a monster if it is not regulated. Our government is like a corporation, just many of them. Corporations do not really care about their employees. I am sure there are those that may disagree, but they may experience this too. The framers of the constitution knew that empires fall. They knew that church and state should be separate. They were looking to create a new world for themselves without the evils of misused power. So obvious is it.

QUOTED FROM JSTAND "I love it when people start to assume what the framers of the constitution mean and put their own spin on it. The truth is that YOU, nor Rebelyell, nor I know exactly what the framers meant when they said "general welfare".

We can know exactly, with great detail and certainty what our founding fathers thought of the "General Welfare" clause. Please read below. Keep in mind these are just a few quotes and if you need me to provide more, please let me know.

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"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."

- Thomas Jefferson

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"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

- James Madison

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"The nature of the encroachment upon American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer; it eats faster and faster every hour. The revenue creates pensioners, and the pensioners urge for more revenue. The people grow less steady, spirited and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependents and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity and frugality become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole of society."

- John Adams

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"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare... they may appoint teachers in every state... The powers of Congress would subvert the very foundation, the very nature of the limited government established by the people of America."

- James Madison

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"The constitutionality and propriety of the Federal Government assuming to enter into a novel and vast field of legislation, namely, that of providing for the care and support of all those ... who by any form of calamity become fit objects of public philanthropy. ... I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for making the Federal Government the great almoner of public charity throughout the United States. To do so would, in my judgment, be contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution and subversive of the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."

- Franklin Peirce

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"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

- James Madison

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"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America."

- James Madison

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"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

- Thomas Jefferson

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"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

- Thomas Jefferson

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I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity, ... [it] would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."

- Franklin Peirce

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

I work for a renal dialysis company, on the first of the year a new way of billing for medicare/medicaid started called 'Bundling' It sent the renal companies almost frantic in the amount of cost cutting that has been implemented. Now whilst I understand the need to be cost vigilant and that the government wants to improve the quality of care the patients recieve by setting targets, but it has resulted in staff focusing in on achieving impossible targets and the quality of care has dimished in my opionion.

The staffing ratio's have been cut in an effort to be cost effective, this as you can imagine has had a terrible cost on pt care and staff satisfaction.

When I came to the US I thought I had died and gone to heaven because the patient care was amazing, the staff were not stressed or overworked and their satisfaction was top notch.

Now I see it going the same way as the UK-you are lucky if you have 2 RN's to do all the work.

I know in my renal dialysis facility there is 1 nurse to 20 patients-how is it possible for any nurse of any calibre to maintain high quality of care?

[talaxandra]

Unless quoting a specific section of other member's posts to rebut, add to or comment on it, can contributers please only post their own comments? Scrolling down past reams of quoted-for-no-purpose previous posts is irritating. Thank you

[Grace Oz]

Ok mum! :chair:

[talaxandra]

I guess it's a combination of two things that about it that irritate me - 1) I don't understand the point of it, and 2) to me, at least, it obscures the point and impetus of new posts. As always, YMMV! And I've never noticed this from you, anyway, Grace, so come out from under that chair!

[Grace Oz]

Ok, I'm out!

Soooo ... how ya been old girl? What's new? Did you know I'l be a first time granny in 6 weeks time? :redbeathe:D

[PPAA]

cool info, thanks.