Should a nursing instructor tell a student they are not nursing material.

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A nursing instructor told one of my classmates that she is not nursing material. I think that she was wrong. She based it on my classmates appearance Im sure, she about 450lbs and slow moving. Her spirit is sweet but the instructor, I feel, is wrong. What do you guys think? If academically she's on it how can she judge her.

That is so so so wrong!! I would definitely report her, sorry. That's awful! :no:

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Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.

"Here's one for you, maybe you can tell the student to come into the lab when your there and work with them? Really, head to toe assessments are easy, but I remember when I first started it seemed like so much. Teach them/him before you reveal to him that he's not nursing material! Can't draw up units correctly, teach him in the lab"

I have tutored him privately. I have also been over and over the head to toe with him individually and the whole class. Everyone else seems to get it. I think he may have a learning disability. He is definitely not nursing material. He seems very immature, like he feels funny speaking about anything using clinical language. Ebonics is so deeply ingrained in him that he can't speak correctly when he has to. Patients are afraid of him. He seems to have trouble using medical terminology correctly. He lacks basic verbal skills and confidence. He might hurt someone. I should not have to reteach everything 3 weeks before he is supposed to graduate.

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Specializes in Acute Mental Health.

I agree that something certainly seems amiss. It sounds like you've tried and it's just not happening. I guess if it were me, I wouldn't want to hear that I'm not nursing material, but rather what I should work on before taking this last clinical again. Maybe working over the summer as a cna to get some hands on experience and going into the lab (required) to get the head to toe as well as meds (calucaltions etc). It must be frustrating to try to teach what basically amounts to common sense.

It's not that I think any person can walk off the street and be a really good nurse. I just take issue with the 'your not nursing material' phrase. As long as there are concrete issues that, if the student chooses, to work on, then it leaves the responsiblity in their corner. I would want to hear that you can't safely pass me because of A, B, C and this is what I think you should do to be successful when you retake this clinical. We have to remediate in the lab if the insructor thinks its necessary. It would be part of our plan to succeed which we would have to have in order to even think about signing up to retake the course.

I think its great that you've taken the time to try to teach him. Many instructors I've had would have sent him home and out the door without attempting to help. If he makes it, it will be because of you and it will mean more to him that he had to really work to accomplish this. I understand you have an obligation to both your student and really society as well. I would not be a good instructor because I would feel too deeply when I shouldn't. :bow:

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If he is unsatisfactory clinically you have to fail him, but you have to have objectives that he did not meet and be able to state why. Is this at the RN or LPN level? How did he get this far if you feel in your gut that he is not nursing material? Did he not have to take speech and composition classes as part of the program? What about math conversions? Was this not part of the program long before the last semester? Do the other instructors feel the same way? How does he perform in the practice lab?

These are questions you need to ask yourself and perhaps you need to meet with others who have passed him along the way and discuss it. For him to have wasted his time and money is terrible, but putting a nurse out there who should not be there is dangerous to society.

Maybe he is rough around the edges but needs more time. Repeating a semester might be enough if you give him concrete skills to work on. I would not tell him he is not nursing material, just that he needs to develop his skills before he is ready to be a nurse. Make sure you have been objective in your evaluation and can list specifics, or you may have a lawsuit on your hands.

I once told a nursing student that she needed more practice with BP's, and she went to my director and complained so loudly that I actually got in trouble. All I said was she needed more practice!! Sometimes they just want the students to be happy to avoid any problems, so they pass people that shouldn't be passed. It is a shame,

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Some posts really make me wonder. Some make me think.

A student who has ebonics deeply ingrained? Seriously? Who talks about ebonics any more? No learning contract at all this semester for him? No faculty or faculty/ administration "word to the wise" that this semester is in jeopardy?

Earlier someone wrote,

think if an instructor sees signs that a student may not have the disposition, skills, or brains to be an effective nurse they have an professional obligation to tell the student just that.

I do believe that some of the humiliation and rage I felt at the words and actions of some clinical instructors I knew was no accident. These feelings were provoked to plumb my disposition. I can't say I'm a better nurse for the experience. But I am a much less naive one.

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According to the Board of Registered Nurse Guidelines an instructor has the right to immediatly disqualify or deny any student who a nursing instructor feels might be unsafe or unfit to do nursing. As long as it is not based on discrimination as in due to someones race, creed, sex, color, etc. they can. As you know if a questionable nursing students complains about an instructor they may recieve an unsatisfactory clinical report in return. I have met nursing instructors that are insensitive, and arrogant.

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Specializes in mostly in the basement.
. As long as it is not based on discrimination as in due to someones race, creed, sex, color, etc. they can. .

and if it sounds like there's a wee chance that it is?:rolleyes:

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Specializes in mostly in the basement.

Seriously....if these 'ebonics' are an 'ingrained' pattern of speech then wouldn't that by definition mean it's how he's always talked? Is this somehow now a surprise and not something that should have been addressed long before?

Ah, forget it, you're right. Patients are "afraid" of him, after all. In which case, you've already failed yourself by allowing him on the floor....unless there weren't c/o "scared".

Ooohhhh, maybe it's that all knowing instructor thing again. You 'know' they where scared just as you 'know' if someone is cut out for this....

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Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.

Miss Mab,

First of all, It is not my job to teach grammar. If someone can't speak correctly and sounds like an ass, that is their problem. For me to correct their grammar would be insulting to them and could be interpretted as me being prejudiced against certain ethnic groups. I am not even going there. I have other students who speak in that way but they are quite competent, that is the least of his problems.

It is not that I am an "all knowing instructor", but I am a seasoned nurse and I can spot incompetence when I see it. You and a couple others sound pretty jaded from your old nursing instructors. Well, guess what, they rode your ass for a reason, because it would be unethical to allow incompetent nurses to graduate. If you are too laid back, students don't try. If you are too over the top strict they will have too much anxiety to function. I take a moderate approach, my students all come to me with questions and I am very approachable. I do not have a God complex, far from it.

I suppose I should just let him pass because to fail him would be mean and after all he did give it a try. Well I hope you are never the defenseless vulnerable patient he happens to be assigned to care for, God help you.

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Specializes in Family Practice, Primary Care.
Miss Mab,

First of all, It is not my job to teach grammar. If someone can't speak correctly and sounds like an ass, that is their problem. For me to correct their grammar would be insulting to them and could be interpretted as me being prejudiced against certain ethnic groups. I am not even going there. I have other students who speak in that way but they are quite competent, that is the least of his problems.

It is not that I am an "all knowing instructor", but I am a seasoned nurse and I can spot incompetence when I see it. You and a couple others sound pretty jaded from your old nursing instructors. Well, guess what, they rode your ass for a reason, because it would be unethical to allow incompetent nurses to graduate. If you are too laid back, students don't try. If you are too over the top strict they will have too much anxiety to function. I take a moderate approach, my students all come to me with questions and I am very approachable. I do not have a God complex, far from it.

I suppose I should just let him pass because to fail him would be mean and after all he did give it a try. Well I hope you are never the defenseless vulnerable patient he happens to be assigned to care for, God help you.

:yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:

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Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.

cxG174,

It is an LPN program and I am having 2nd thoughts about teaching in it. I don't know how he got this far. I only started teaching in January and I think I am ready to resign already. It is a very poor quality program run by a school that is more of a business than it is a school. The acceptance criteria is lower than the national average so that they can keep the seats filled. They care very little about the quality of the students or their education as long as they pay their $22,000 tuition they dont care what happens. They recruit people who will qualify for grants from welfare.

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Wow. I have taught before, so I know all the politics that goes on behind the scenes. The bottom line is always money when you work in education. It really has stressors that people do not know about unless they have worked in it.

You have not given it much time. Being new is particularly hard, especially when you come in with high expectations. This is a tough call. I once had a student (LPN) who had a reading disability. I had to read the tests to her, and they said that the NCLEX test would be read to her. She was a nice girl but I wonder in the workplace - who will read the MAR for her? Who will read the doctor's orders for her? I found it disturbing, but she had a disability and we could not be biased against her for it.

Remember though that his communication skills can improve with time, and in a workplace where he is immersed in medical communications. He also will not function completely independently as he will be an LPN, not an RN. He still has to be able to get hired, and the employer has to bear the burden of supervision and orientation. You are only responsible to educate him. He still has to pass boards.

People sometimes need more time to grow, and maybe he will end up in a Dr. office or something- assisting, taking vitals, etc. where he works closely with others. He must have done some things right to get this far. Don't take the entire responsibility on yourself, you are only one piece of the puzzle. If this is what he really wants to do, then you can work with it.

I still say if you think he is incompetent, be honest about it, but make sure youy can back it up. Good luck.

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