Should a nursing instructor tell a student they are not nursing material.

southeRNyankeee · Mar 1, 2009

Miss Mab,
First of all, It is not my job to teach grammar. If someone can't speak correctly and sounds like an ass, that is their problem. For me to correct their grammar would be insulting to them and could be interpretted as me being prejudiced against certain ethnic groups. I am not even going there. I have other students who speak in that way but they are quite competent, that is the least of his problems.

You say he sounds like an ass, but you have other students that speak the same way yet they are competent. Do they "sound like asses" too?

Can I get an example of these "ebonics", please?

Here's the thing...not everyone who is from this ethnic group of which you are speaking has trouble communicating. Correcting a students speech/grammar does not mean the rest of his "ethnic group" is going to call Al Sharpton.

There are people who can't speak properly from all walks of life. Please don't think this is some sort of ethnic trait.

meluhn · Mar 1, 2009

"Remember though that his communication skills can improve with time, and in a workplace where he is immersed in medical communications. He also will not function completely independently as he will be an LPN, not an RN. He still has to be able to get hired, and the employer has to bear the burden of supervision and orientation. You are only responsible to educate him. He still has to pass boards.

People sometimes need more time to grow, and maybe he will end up in a Dr. office or something- assisting, taking vitals, etc. where he works closely with others. He must have done some things right to get this far. Don't take the entire responsibility on yourself, you are only one piece of the puzzle. If this is what he really wants to do, then you can work with it. "

The way the job market is today he could also work in LTC where there is alot more autonomy. His incompetence may never be noticed until he does some serious harm to someone. Then again he might never pass the boards. The strange part is, he is a fair student when it comes to classroom work. He studies hard and gets passing grades, but when it comes time to translate that knowledge into real life situations he is clueless.

meluhn · Mar 1, 2009

Busymamma,

See, you are already on the defensive which is why I would never bring it up to any of my students that speak that way. He just has a very heavy case of it. Do you not agree that it sounds ignorant when people don't speak properly? What if my fellow instructors, some of who happen to be black, went around saying "Im gonna put mines right here" or "Hes layin' up in there" "Yes she do" and "No he don't" I think even the students would be shocked. For the older people we deal with it is like he is speaking another language. I know that there are all kinds of people that don't speak properly. I dont think it is an ethnic trait. I have been around long enough to know that all black people don't talk like that. My 2 best students with the highest averages in the class happen to both be intelligent, black women, one of which is persuing this as a second career/degree. I have asians that are failing, so much for stereotypes.

I know this is a hot topic and I don't mean to offend anyone.

Wishinonastar, BSN · Mar 1, 2009

Yes, but as a new grad he will go through a lot of hoops yet to prove himself. I see how torn you are, and I know you are right. In a perfect world there are only the best coming out of our nursing schools, but it is no doubt a normal curve, and he is at the lower end. But if he has textbook knowledge he may improve with time.

We have an LPN at my workplace who everyone picked on and disliked from the beginning. They wanted to get rid of her, citing all the things she failed to follow up on. She had not been out of school long and I suggested they have a preceptor for her that she would discuss her patients with every day at the end of the day. This was unheard of in my workplace, but they tried it. Well, in time she has blossomed into a great nurse, and everyone loves her. Some people need more time. Maybe one more sememster would help him?

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Mar 1, 2009

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southeRNyankeee · Mar 1, 2009

Meluhn, I think you are missing my point. If you re-read my post you'll see I'm not defensive, I'm merely pointing out that correcting someone's speech is not a slap in the face to all people who share that person's ethnicity.

I agree 100% that it sounds ignorant when people don't speak correctly. You, however, said that you have other students that speak this way but are competent. I just asked which one is it--do "ebonics" make them asses or doesn't it?

I'm sure you know that all black people do not speak this way, but then why do you think you'll be seen as prejudiced by other black students if you correct one particular student's grammar?

meluhn · Mar 1, 2009

"Meluhn, I think you are missing my point. If you re-read my post you'll see I'm not defensive, I'm merely pointing out that correcting someone's speech is not a slap in the face to all people who share that person's ethnicity."

OK, point taken. I didn't mean to offend anyone.

How do you think it would go over in a school made up of mostly minorities if I corrected his language?

Wishinonastar, BSN · Mar 1, 2009

See even the word ebonics offends some, and the word itself was developed to describe a particular type of speech that is in fact a form of slang. This instructor was only trying to decribe what her student was like, and I think we need to recognize that and not get into any kind of debate.

Let's get back to the subject. Should an instructor tell a student that they feel they are not nursing material? Are there times when it is appropriate to do that? Or is it too subjective? Should an instructor only stick to objective criteria? Or is it kinder to be honest about traits such as lack of seriousness or poor communication skills- use of slang instead of correct terminology?

southeRNyankeee · Mar 1, 2009

How do you think it would go over in a school made up of mostly minorities if I corrected his language

'his language' is not the language of all minorities.

Why do you think that your minority students would have a problem with you correcting someone's grammar? Do you think that your two star black students would have issue? Why?

Would you hesitate to correct a white, hispanic, or asian student using slang?

Black people do not have the corner on the market of slang. Look around, it's part of youth culture nowadays.

Just to clarify I am not offended, nor do I think you are racist or prejudiced or whatever. I'm interested in your thought process as to why you think if you correct his language your other minority students would jump to his rescue (branding you as being prejudiced), yet you say you know that all minorities don't speak this way.

chevyv, BSN, RN · Mar 1, 2009

The way a person uses grammer is not anyones place to judge. This is a very slippery slope here. I don't always sound professional, but I do know how to use spell check when I need to. If it's problem with skills, then that can be worked on. I went to all white schools until 8th grade and then went to a predominately black school. It took me about a week before I could really know what people were asking me, but once I got it, I was fine. I also have difficulty with heavy southern accents. I can care less if you tell me that this person is 'laying up in here'. I get what your saying. Sounds like you may be in a bit of a culture shock right now. I agree that if he's doing ok in theory and studying, then there is a will that he wants to make it. Maybe just continue to work with him and don't give up. If his language bothers you, I guess you have to find a way to deal with it.

I think it sounds like there's more to it then the language and skills. I work in ltc and believe me, he will make mistakes! He will make mistakes no matter where he goes. We come out of school not well trained no matter where we attend. Most of us learn as we go. He will not be the exception.

If a person gets grants because they are on welfare, who cares! I'm not, but my income is so low 99% of my schooling has been paid for. Guess what, I don't need help anymore. The ssi my son gets will no longer be needed in a few months. I won't have to rely on the system for anything and I'll have health insurance that I carry. You're helping people to succeed! That is a great thing.

Some instructors 'ride your ass' because they can, while others do it because they know you can do better. I wish you the very best of luck! You can figure this out, but I do feel bad because you do sound frustrated and stuck between wanting your students to do well and not unleashing poorly trained nurses on the world!

persephone714 · Apr 4, 2009

My instructor tells me every day that i look "horrible" because my uniform isn't starched and I don't do anything! :rolleyes: (funny how I'm sweating bullets by 9am) She also tells me that I won't be a good nurse, blah, blah, blah...

There is always an instructor in a position of power that like to pick one person to mess with, cuz they got nothin better to do...just gotta keep truckin.

Fermin Hernandez, ADN, ASN, RN · Apr 4, 2009

instructors are not to choose who will be a nurse, but to educate and grade

fairly.

anything else is an abuse of power.

now if the students qualities don't allow them to complete a skill with a passing grade then they shouldn't pass...otherwise, if they can complete the skills criteria for passing then that's that.

it is up to the state board and each employer whether or not the person should work as a nurse...