Seattle is Dying

Susie2310 · Mar 29, 2019

8 minutes ago, LilPeanut said:
And what about the people who are not able to provide a contribution? It could be physical, emotional or mental.
That's part of why it is complex. Ideally, if you improve all the other aspects, eventually people will have less of a cycle of poverty than they do now. It's something you have to accept, that there are people who are going to receive things they "don't deserve" in order to better society.
People deserve to be cared for because they are human beings. No strings attached.
Otherwise, again, you're basically just advocating lining people up who can't contribute and killing them. There is also a very natural and normal reaction for people to think rich people deserve their money and poor people deserve to be poor. It's not a conscious thought necessarily, but subconsciously we think it because we want to be financially comfortable, and we are scared of being poverty-stricken, and we know we are "good people", and so they will some day be "rich".
But crap happens and there are generations of poverty and addiction and other ways it all gets messy and things people can't control. And so there are people who are homeless because they lost a job, or because they got sick, or had an accident.
You can't expect people to get out of poverty and the hole they are in without stable home/food/etc. Think of Maslow's hierarchy of need. You're going to have to support people for a while, while they work their way up that hierarchy.
We all live and work within the framework of our society, so we all owe back to that society. The greater the "reward" you are getting, the greater the debt to society you have to pay.

I agree.

TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN · Mar 30, 2019

Seattle, and every major city, is a way bigger issue than that. The problems with these cities start at the federal level, and work their way down. It's a complex mix of problems that have been going on for longer than I've been alive, caused by both sides of the political spectrum on every level.

OldDude · Mar 30, 2019

4 hours ago, Susie2310 said:
I agree.

I disagree

Cupcake2018 · Mar 30, 2019

On 3/27/2019 at 9:56 PM, TriciaJ said:
In a society where anything goes, eventually everything goes.

Perfection. I lean liberal, but I am no hyper-liberal. Hyper-liberalism is destroying people's lives. We have no real standards, because in the name of celebrating 'diversity' (whatever that means now) and personal freedom, truly anything goes...and the consequences are real....very, very real.

Duranie · Mar 30, 2019

18 hours ago, LilPeanut said:
I'm a bit disappointed with the level of disdain people seem to have.

I don’t have disdain really— I have ... I don’t know what to call it, actually.... confusion, I guess. I don’t know.

20 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:
the vast majority would not make it through because they continued to have pos drug screen, would not show up for req classes etc. So we tax payers just keep throwing good money after bad. I dont know the answer but what we are doing is obviously not working.

13 hours ago, LilPeanut said:
People deserve to be cared for because they are human beings. No strings attached.

13 hours ago, LilPeanut said:
But crap happens and there are generations of poverty and addiction and other ways it all gets messy and things people can't control. And so there are people who are homeless because they lost a job, or because they got sick, or had an accident.
You can't expect people to get out of poverty and the hole they are in without stable home/food/etc. Think of Maslow's hierarchy of need. You're going to have to support people for a while, while they work their way up that hierarchy.
So, it's very difficult to fix the problem because we don't like to give people money they don't "deserve" and our current politics mean the people with the most money pay the least to care for our society. We all live and work within the framework of our society, so we all owe back to that society. The greater the "reward" you are getting, the greater the debt to society you have to pay.

There have to be strings attached— by your own argument, we support people until they can get back to a functional place in life.... so the strings are that they are going to cooperate and work toward that goal of self-sufficiency, or at least minimally-supported-sufficiency (for those with limiting disabilities)

So what do you do for those people who will not cooperate??? They have *no desire* to change their circumstances, and will not live within the programs that are being offered. You can’t enroll someone into a sheltered rehab program, but still allow them to do drugs and engage in illicit activity within their provided housing..... they have to be willing to live by the rules. They have to work their way up that hierarchy. They can’t be dragged.

Those people, who through misfortune, or bad luck, or sudden illness, etc., end up in bad situations — either through no real fault of their own, or through ignorance and poor choices that are later regretted— those people are the ones who could—and do— benefit from the supported welfare-type programs that exist.... They don’t want to be homeless, jobless, *hopeless*, etc. They want to pull themselves up out of the gutter, and they’re grateful for the hand that reaches out to help pull them to a place of safety, security, and self-reliance. Unfortunately, those people are in the minority, in many places. And more unfortunately, the programs that are offered are often structured in ways that hinder access by the very people who would benefit.

My own sister was denied welfare and food stamps when she got breast cancer, had a double mastectomy, went through radiation and chemo, and reconstructive surgeries, all while raising her disabled grandson. She was unable to work for over a year... but the state of AZ refused her benefits because she couldn’t attend the job-readiness classes they required of welfare enrollees. She explained, in vain, that she *had* a job, & she was off on long-term disability, but that it only paid ~30% of her pre-illness wages, which were meager to start with. After six months or so she was able to get SSDI (and SSI for her grandson), but the state still refused any benefits because, according to them she was “non-compliant” with the job training programs. Even letters from her doctors stating that the classes were unnecessary, and inappropriate given her medical needs, made no difference. She nearly lost her house, and car— we paid her car payment and mortgage on more than one occasion, which meant we had to juggle our own payments and got our credit dinged... but the point is that even people who *want* the help, often can’t get it because the programs are one-size-fits-all and are designed to force people into compliance with rules that may not even be appropriate for their situation.

If people who want help, and genuinely need it, can’t get it... how on earth can anyone expect to help people who don’t want assistance??

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Mar 30, 2019

9 hours ago, Cupcake2018 said:
Perfection. I lean liberal, but I am no hyper-liberal. Hyper-liberalism is destroying people's lives. We have no real standards, because in the name of celebrating 'diversity' (whatever that means now) and personal freedom, truly anything goes...and the consequences are real....very, very real.

Interesting. I think that the exquisitely complete hypocrisy of hyper-conservatism has played a large part in society's fracturing as well...

NuggetsHuman, BSN, RN · Mar 30, 2019

On 3/28/2019 at 10:52 PM, NRSKarenRN said:
Philadelphia had similar issues with Seattle, San Francisco and west coast areas. Programs developed to help with homelessness and downtown cleanliness/vagrency include:
1. Creation of Center City District
2. Street Outreach – Office of Homeless Services
3. Sr. Mary Scullion RSM created Project Home in 1989.
Last year, HOME opened outreach center in one of the subway concourses to give info, provide place to shower, wash clothes, and get brief healthcare screening and encourage housing placement. All of these programs are replicable around the country.

I work for ProjectHOME and have provided behavioral health services at the Hub (drop in day time center for people experiencing homelessness). On the busiest of days, there are more than 500 people who come into the Hub to have a safe place to sit, have a cup of coffee, maybe a snack or meal, see a health care provider, do laundry, take a shower, or talk with outreach workers about housing options.

It's helpful.

But it's not nearly enough.

When outreach refers people to emergency shelters, often there are no beds and they are assigned a chair to sleep in for the night.

Having also lived in Seattle until ~3 years ago, a large part of what I think is happening is gentrification and loss of low income housing, in addition to coroporate tax breaks negotiated to keep large employers in the area. My partner and I are both working professionals and could minimally afford a one bedroom apartment in the city by the time we left. In Philadelphia we have an apartment that's more than twice the size and is still $500 less per month.

But we have decent jobs with stable incomes, health insurance, clean crimial backgrounds, proof of identification, and drivers licenses.

It's not that easy for a lot of people.

We have the resources we need to solve homelessness, but we lack the political will to do so.

NuggetsHuman, BSN, RN · Mar 30, 2019

I also want to add that housing first really does work.

It's a very cost effective way to save lives, improve health, increase human dignity, decrease homelessness, and save money with regard to demand on public services.

The program in Philadlephia where we have a satellite clinic has an 85% housing retention rate even when participants have been determined unable to be housed by other agencies.
https://pathwaystohousingpa.org/providinghomes

Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN · Mar 30, 2019

On 3/27/2019 at 7:15 PM, brownbook said:
My gut feeling is mental illness is a key culprit, in spite of the "statistics" that less than half were evaluated by a court as severely mentally ill.
I think it is very difficult to deem someone severely mentally ill in our current legal system.
Someone can even be evaluated as severely mentally ill.... be in a locked psychiatric facility, then eventually they are released, and end up back on the street.
Decent, long term, well run, psychiatric facilities are my solution.

I remember when the big shout was for psychiatric institutions to be emptied out into the communities ,that this would serve them better,and the mentally ill could be reintegrated into the community....what a load of c$%##.The opposite result has occurred,what a mess and the taxes keep going up ,laws are lax or misguided.While we refuse to face the facts that not everyone can be rehabilitated and the innocent murdered can not be brought back to life.

Cupcake2018 · Mar 30, 2019

10 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:
Interesting. I think that the exquisitely complete hypocrisy of hyper-conservatism has played a large part in society's fracturing as well...

I agree. Things don't tend to work out well when operating under 'extremes'...

Hematocrit13 · Mar 31, 2019

Great comments here! I watched the program, and many of the issues and questions raised by the commenters are in fact addressed in the program. The music is maybe overdone and maybe too ominous, but I recommend viewing it.

momofm1998 · Mar 31, 2019

This is quite an amazing post. I am seeing this very phenomenon occurring occurring in a specific area around Nashville. I can see what you are describing happening. Nashville is supposedly the “it” city. Massive migration of high tech and the salaries that accompany to the area, housing costs up 150% over the last 12 months, wages unchanged overall and for nurses actual decreased. Middle class are being forced to move away. Older residents say their kids can’t afford to live near their parents because of outrageous housing costs. Taxes are go ing up to pay for schools needed for the influx of high income residents. But teachers can’t afford the housing. Service workers drive an hour or more from surrounding towns. They are not invested so needless to say may cut corners. Gov focuses on irrelevant issues, people get paid off, problems remain. I am seeing, as this post so aptly describes, an obvious division of class occurring rapidly. The extremely wealthy and the lowest of lower income. I see more and more homeless, see more organizations to help the low income, food banks, addiction clinics. Crime was low or nonexistent just a few years ago, now, see it steadily climbing. How do we change this course? My thoughts are that pure greed has a lot to do with it. Even when treating addiction! Clinics look at this as a revenue stream with poorly paid and prepared counselors who just want a paycheck. So these people are back To their existence and the ceo goes home to his 2 mil gated community.