RNs tell your hospitals to hire new grads

joanna73, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2011

Old Timer, it's interesting that you made your observation regarding the direction of this thread. I was thinking the same thing. How you can begin by asking senior nurses for a favour, only to later turn around and essentially write them off is unbelievable, and, yes, comical. With that kind of strategy and mindset, it's no wonder some new grads have a challenging time finding work. Hiring managers are very good at picking up on these kinds of inconsistencies during an interview, too.

wooh, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2011

mama d, very similar happened to me at a previous job. The hospital ran off all of the experienced nurses, especially the experienced RNs, (who of course cost a bit more money) and only hired new grad LPNs. Now thankfully we still had a few of the experienced LPNs there who were mostly amazing, but the new grad LPNs came from a new program that was HORRIBLE. The hospital would staff with just one RN who had her own load of patients and was charge for the floor, with everyone else being LPNs. As long as they had enough RNs to do charge, they were happy. One night I was the only RN on 2 med/surg floors with over 50 patients, I had my own full load of patients, had to do all the admissions, and had to oversee a bunch of new grads who barely knew what they were doing. There was one night that they put a new grad RN in charge with the new grad LPNs, nobody understood why, but it had been specifically assigned by management even though there were 2 experienced RNs on the floor with the experienced RN charge that all had volunteered to drop their assignment and go over there. I remember vividly at 11pm saying, "I guarantee there will be a code down there before 3am." The announcement went overhead at 1am. I finally left before I lost my license, because it was ridiculous.

I'd rather do the heavy lifting and work with people that know what they're doing. Especially since it's rare you meet a nurse with a bad back that got that bad back somewhere other than nursing. New grads, that will likely be YOU with the bad back in a few short years, no matter how careful you think you are.

RN7776 · Mar 14, 2011

I agree with that, but there needs to be some kind of training for new less physical jobs for nurses that have ruined there backs through work. Otherwise they do not have a dream of getting those types of jobs and are stuck at the bedside causing more of a burden for the rest.
Of course, there are a small percentage of nurses of every age that are just laaaaaaaaaazy. But that is a whole nother subject......

With some sort of fortitude, the "older nurses" would have gone back to school for MSN or beyond and be away from the bedside as a masters prepared nurse or better yet, AT the bedside.

Not for nothing but, if I had a dime for every ADN nurse who refused to go back to school and just wanted to work forever and collect a check without acknowledging that nursing is like every other vertical I'd be a bazillionaire. Sometimes, getting a BSN, MSN etc will protect your job, keep you relevant etc. Would someone with a BS in Accounting or Finance rest on their laurels? no. Why would a nurse stop at an associates degree.

Things change...evidence based practice didn't exist 30 yrs ago....why would a 30 yr "veteran" nurse not want to adapt. This is NOT directed at those that have...however floor nursing isnt something that is meant to be for people in their 60s/70s. Realistically, like it or not - expecting....heck, feeling entitled to work into your 60s/70s is a massive assumption.

elkpark · Mar 14, 2011

With some sort of fortitude, the "older nurses" would have gone back to school for MSN or beyond and be away from the bedside as a masters prepared nurse or better yet, AT the bedside.
Not for nothing but, if I had a dime for every ADN nurse who refused to go back to school and just wanted to work forever and collect a check without acknowledging that nursing is like every other vertical I'd be a bazillionaire. Sometimes, getting a BSN, MSN etc will protect your job, keep you relevant etc. Would someone with a BS in Accounting or Finance rest on their laurels? no. Why would a nurse stop at an associates degree.
Things change...evidence based practice didn't exist 30 yrs ago....why would a 30 yr "veteran" nurse not want to adapt. This is NOT directed at those that have...however floor nursing isnt something that is meant to be for people in their 60s/70s. Realistically, like it or not - expecting....heck, feeling entitled to work into your 60s/70s is a massive assumption.

IMO, feeling that competent, capable nurses aren't entitled to work into their 60s/70s, and that floor nursing "isn't meant to be for" them is the "massive assumption." Some of the best (and most up-to-date) bedside nurses I've known were in that age group, and running circles around the younger, less experienced nurses. If you're qualified and competent at your job, what is wrong with "working forever and collecting a check"? If employers have a problem with that, rest assured that they will make that clear to their employees! My observation over the years has been that most healthcare employers provide v. little incentive or reward for furthering one's education, so why would anyone expect large numbers of employees to pursue that beyond what is necessary for the job they want?

And where did you get the idea that EBP "didn't exist 30 years ago"? It certainly did when I was in nursing school at that time. We didn't call it "evidence-based practice" -- the buzzword hadn't been invented yet; neither had "critical thinking" (the term) -- but we certainly did both.

bagladyrn, RN · Mar 14, 2011

I'd really like to understand where some of the "younger" posters get off telling us what type of work we should be doing, or for that matter whether or not we should be working. I don't recall asking whether or not I had anyone's permission to do my job, much less someone younger than my kids.

Just a warning - the more I hear of this, the more I plan on continuing to work way past the age most of you deem appropriate - just so I can be a total pain in the neck and a terror to all the smart aleck youngsters out there! And since I'm a travel nurse, I could show up anywhere - beware!

allnurses Guide · Mar 14, 2011

RN7776 The more you post, the more you reveal that you lack even a rudimentary understanding of nursing in general. (not talking clinical, just the job market) Several of us have corrected your misperceptions already in this thread, and yet you plow doggedly on with blinders intact, instead of contemplating the input given by people who would be most likely to know - those people who actually do the job.

With some sort of fortitude, the "older nurses" would have gone back to school for MSN or beyond and be away from the bedside as a masters prepared nurse or better yet, AT the bedside.

Sure, it would be great if everyone planned ahead like that, however - I would encourage you to do some research about what the word "training" means, and what specific education is needed for every non-bedside working career possibility available to nurses with 30 years on the job.

Can you explain to me with specifics your reasoning that a nurse with a masters AT the bedside would be superior to any other RN at the bedside?

Not for nothing but, if I had a dime for every ADN nurse who refused to go back to school and just wanted to work forever and collect a check without acknowledging that nursing is like every other vertical I'd be a bazillionaire.

Well, since a refusal demands a question and you seem to be so amazingly informed about what goes on in other nurse's heads I'll assume you cruised your workplace nabbing ADNs to ask if they just expected to work forever and continue collecting their checks or get their BSN sorry :lol2: If you asked me that question I would refuse to go back to school even if I had just secretly finished my DNP and graduation was on Saturday. Not because you're not a good person, just that you would be an irritating person.

Sometimes, getting a BSN, MSN etc will protect your job, keep you relevant etc. Would someone with a BS in Accounting or Finance rest on their laurels? no. Why would a nurse stop at an associates degree.

A degree does not "keep you relevant" YOU keep you relevant. The longer time away from graduation, the more similar the demands between the degrees as things move fast and getting faster every day.

Things change...evidence based practice didn't exist 30 yrs ago....why would a 30 yr "veteran" nurse not want to adapt. This is NOT directed at those that have...however floor nursing isnt something that is meant to be for people in their 60s/70s. Realistically, like it or not - expecting....heck, feeling entitled to work into your 60s/70s is a massive assumption.

It's a massive assumption for you think there is anything appropriate about getting into the business between an employer and an employee. It's a massive assumption that evidence based practice didn't exist 30 yrs ago. Inventing a new buzz-phrase doesn't mean inventing a new thing. That statement only reinforces my thought that your opinion lacks the basic foundational knowledge about the subject matter you need to have before proceeding to make a declaration of fact. :)

time4meRN · Mar 14, 2011

Always like new grads, but don't get too smart with those that are experienced. Remember , eventually you will get a job in a hospital. Then you will be reliant upon those of us who have experience. I've seen my share of " deer in the head light new grads". There are good things and bad things about hiring new grads. Hospitals are very short staffed, that means most of us don't have time to teach basics once an rn is on their own . Believe me, if you are a new grad you have a lot to learn !!!! I guess to make a long story short, I want everyone to have a job , but the more new grads they hire, the more difficult my job is. Love to work with a few on the unit but not too many. Experience is the key on a busy short staffed unit. Hospitals know this.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2011

In response to the "massive assumption" about nurses working into their 60s and 70s....it is not for anyone here to decide or judge when people should retire. Or what advanced schooling nurses should have. These are personal choices. Aside from where I currently work, when I was a student, I had a placement in the OR. We had a 69 year old nurse working part time in there who was amazing.

For all you people so quick to judge these older nurses...remember that many of them paved the way.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2011

And by the way...evidence based practice existed in the days of Florence Nightingale. She was a pioneer. But they may not have called it that. EBP is nothing new.

RN7776 · Mar 14, 2011

RN7776 The more you post, the more you reveal that you lack even a rudimentary understanding of nursing in general. (not talking clinical, just the job market) Several of us have corrected your misperceptions already in this thread, and yet you plow doggedly on with blinders intact, instead of contemplating the input given by people who would be most likely to know - those people who actually do the job.
Sure, it would be great if everyone planned ahead like that, however - I would encourage you to do some research about what the word "training" means, and what specific education is needed for every non-bedside working career possibility available to nurses with 30 years on the job.
Can you explain to me with specifics your reasoning that a nurse with a masters AT the bedside would be superior to any other RN at the bedside?
Well, since a refusal demands a question and you seem to be so amazingly informed about what goes on in other nurse's heads I'll assume you cruised your workplace nabbing ADNs to ask if they just expected to work forever and continue collecting their checks or get their BSN sorry If you asked me that question I would refuse to go back to school even if I had just secretly finished my DNP and graduation was on Saturday. Not because you're not a good person, just that you would be an irritating person.
A degree does not "keep you relevant" YOU keep you relevant. The longer time away from graduation, the more similar the demands between the degrees as things move fast and getting faster every day.
It's a massive assumption for you think there is anything appropriate about getting into the business between an employer and an employee. It's a massive assumption that evidence based practice didn't exist 30 yrs ago. Inventing a new buzz-phrase doesn't mean inventing a new thing. That statement only reinforces my thought that your opinion lacks the basic foundational knowledge about the subject matter you need to have before proceeding to make a declaration of fact. :)

Your rhetoric indicates your indeed in the category of the people that would purport to make be a bazillionaire.

RN7776 · Mar 14, 2011

RN7776 The more you post, the more you reveal that you lack even a rudimentary understanding of nursing in general. (not talking clinical, just the job market) Several of us have corrected your misperceptions already in this thread, and yet you plow doggedly on with blinders intact, instead of contemplating the input given by people who would be most likely to know - those people who actually do the job.
Sure, it would be great if everyone planned ahead like that, however - I would encourage you to do some research about what the word "training" means, and what specific education is needed for every non-bedside working career possibility available to nurses with 30 years on the job.
Can you explain to me with specifics your reasoning that a nurse with a masters AT the bedside would be superior to any other RN at the bedside?
Well, since a refusal demands a question and you seem to be so amazingly informed about what goes on in other nurse's heads I'll assume you cruised your workplace nabbing ADNs to ask if they just expected to work forever and continue collecting their checks or get their BSN sorry If you asked me that question I would refuse to go back to school even if I had just secretly finished my DNP and graduation was on Saturday. Not because you're not a good person, just that you would be an irritating person.
A degree does not "keep you relevant" YOU keep you relevant. The longer time away from graduation, the more similar the demands between the degrees as things move fast and getting faster every day.
It's a massive assumption for you think there is anything appropriate about getting into the business between an employer and an employee. It's a massive assumption that evidence based practice didn't exist 30 yrs ago. Inventing a new buzz-phrase doesn't mean inventing a new thing. That statement only reinforces my thought that your opinion lacks the basic foundational knowledge about the subject matter you need to have before proceeding to make a declaration of fact. :)

Sometimes, getting a BSN, MSN etc will protect your job, keep you relevant etc. Would someone with a BS in Accounting or Finance rest on their laurels? no. Why would a nurse stop at an associates degree.

"A degree does not "keep you relevant" YOU keep you relevant. The longer time away from graduation, the more similar the demands between the degrees as things move fast and getting faster every day."

Ask a CRNA or Midwive what they can do when they go back to school for a few years...also as a Nurse Practitioner whose scope of practice includes prescribing priveledges...how their jobs change when they go beyond RN. See my point isn't to fan the flames of the "education doesnt matter" ADNs nor to push old nurses out of practice (heck if the economy were still cranking we'd need every solitary RN available)...it was to say evolve or become irrelevant. Like it or not this is social darwinism in the workplace and nursing isn't immune.

elkpark · Mar 14, 2011

Sometimes, getting a BSN, MSN etc will protect your job, keep you relevant etc.

Key word here being "sometimes" ... Sometimes, for some people, it's helpful and worth the investment -- other times, for other people, it's not. A v. personal choice, dependent on each person's individual situation.

Would someone with a BS in Accounting or Finance rest on their laurels? no. Why would a nurse stop at an associates degree..

If a BS in accounting or finance was the recognized appropriate level of formal education for the kind of work that person wished to do, yes, I would think "resting on (her/his) laurels" would be perfectly reasonable, and I'm sure there are plenty of people in accounting and finance who are doing just that.

Ask a CRNA or Midwive what they can do when they go back to school for a few years...also as a Nurse Practitioner whose scope of practice includes prescribing priveledges...how their jobs change when they go beyond RN. See my point isn't to fan the flames of the "education doesnt matter" ADNs nor to push old nurses out of practice (heck if the economy were still cranking we'd need every solitary RN available)...it was to say evolve or become irrelevant. Like it or not this is social darwinism in the workplace and nursing isn't immune.

Advanced practice nursing is an entirely different undertaking from generalist nursing, and something most RNs are not interested in pursuing. Are you suggesting that every RN in the US should become (or want to become) an advanced practice nurse? How many million NPs, CRNAs, CNMs and CNSs do you think US healthcare can absorb and support?? And, if that were to happen, who would do the bedside nursing?

I have no problem with the idea of "evolve or become irrelevant." And I'm as big a fan of higher education as anyone. However, a lot of people, including me, would make the point that further formal education is not the only way to "evolve" professionally.