RN's that dont like showering? Whats with that?

DusktilDawn · Aug 30, 2005

Hi
I would like to share with you about a situation regarding a couple of RNs that dont like doing showers. I work as a nurses aide in a team nursing environment, well that is what the hospital prides itself on however its now becoming a joke. Another nurses aide and another nurse LPN have been confronted by RNs who state to them that they will need to do all the showers, answer buzzers etc. So the patient load would be 10-11 patients. So the nurse aide did about 10 showers, made beds, answer buzzers etc. I advised this nurse aide to report that RN as its not fair and you are not a machine. She shrugged it off with the idea she will not be listened to.
I am studying for my RNs and I work too as a nurse aide. If I did come across this RN I would be telling her bluntly what I think and definetly reporting her. I cannot believe the mentality of some RNs believing that they dont have to shower anyone anymore. That is certainly not what I have been taught and I have no problems showering patients. It truly amazes me in this day and age that the team nursing model of care is disrupted.
Does anyone have this kind of problem where they work? What have you done to resolve?
Look forward to your reply

What I can tell you is that I work alot harder now as an RN in Michigan than I ever did as an RPN/LPN in Canada.

From bedpans to linen changes, from clean-up to repositioning, from getting water to ambulating to answering call lights, I do it all along with the other numerous responsiblities and ACCOUNTABILITY that go along with being an RN. I have too much to do because I'm doing the CNAs job. That's my situation.

"Team nursing model of care," implies that the other members on the "team" have an idea of what each other's responsiblity is. I find in my situation that is far from the case. Are you aware of what responsiblities the RNs at your facility have, and I mean really aware? Perhaps your co-worker has a better idea of what the RNs' responsiblities are which is why she isn't so gun-ho about reporting them for not doing HER job.

It's not about my being "too good to do a bath," the bottom line is, the CNA can't do my job and I shouldn't ALWAYS be expected to do their job at the expense of the other responsibilities I have.

Being a CNA and a nursing student gives you and idea about what an RN does but until you have walked in the Birkenstocks of an RN, you really don't what the job of an RN is.

buterfly · Aug 30, 2005

good luck on working towards your RN. we dont have enough time to to hang and monitor iv, administer meds, teach patients, assess clinical status and pick up doctor orders much more to give a bath. As a student you can move a mountain because you are standing on the outside looking in.

kimhaw · Aug 30, 2005

I understand your frustrations. I work on a unit where we do the team nursing approach. There are usually four r.n's and around 22 pts. One r.n is charge and two are team leads. Each team lead will be assigned to half of the patients with 2-3 cna/techs. Two Lpn's will pass meds and do treamtments for all of the patients. The one r.n left will usually do admissions/discharges and help out as needed. At this hospital the r.n job is to make sure the work gets done and chart it. The cna/techs are responsible for all caths/ urine samples,vitals, pvr's etc. We each will have at least two patients to bath pers shift along with changing linens and sometimes chaning diapers for pts. etc. The r.n.'s on the shift will not answer a call light at all. If we need help moving a very heavy pt. or if a pt. requests his nurse we they are angry when asked. I had one pts. who wanted to go to the toilet. The r.n. wroted it down on a sticky note and came to the end of the hall where I was changing a pt. and gave it to me. I have seen the same nurses fall asleep at the computer charting or shop online all day. One r.n even told me she do stuff at this hospital she would never do at a another hospital like not answering lights and just plain coming to work and not doing anything on some days. I am considering quitting this hospital b/c I feel the cna/techs are responsible for too many things and a lot of things are out of the scope of practice but this a VA hospital and they say they train all cna's themselves. Alot of my classmates want to work their after they graduate b/c they too know r.n's there don't do much no passing meds/pt. care etc.

psalm, RN · Aug 31, 2005

At the hospital I work at as a tech. They do team nursing also and the R.N. does 0 patient care. We do all caths, finger sticks, pvr's etc. They have a LPN to pass meds and sometimes a R.N. will get assigned to meds but usually not b/c they will get mad for having to pass meds. Then each R.N. will have no less than 2 cna or techs to do patient care. Each tech will have around 7 pts. each to all adl's patient care etc. The r.n is responsible for making sure we get everything done and usually does not help out at all. She is responsible for charting on the computer which sometimes the r.n fall alseep at the computer doing or shops online. Many will get mad if they are asked to help out. They don't answer call lights either not even pick up the receiver by them to answer it. I am considering quitting b/c I feel that I am responsible for too many things and too many pts. at this hospital. Its just too much.

...don't quit, fill out an incident report, name names of nurses who are shopping online or using the computer on non-work-related sites. Copy this post and use the info in your incident report. You have some valid concerns and it would be a shame for this place to lose you because of the above. As an R.N. it is frustrating to see conscientious aides leave because of conditions that should be reported and changed. Good luck.

AussieKylie · Sep 1, 2005

Well I have been advised ever since I started working at this hospital, mostly all the time RNs advise me 'You dont need to do all the showers. Just start on them and after the morning medication rounds we will help out'. I appreciate having the job, however I aint gonna bust my guts and get burnt out in doing all the showers if I was ever faced with an RN telling me I had to do all the showers. Team nursing to me is helping each other out within the working environment. At the moment I am doing a placement at another hospital and it is based on Primary nursing care (one nurse to 5-6 patients) and she/he is required to do the showers as they have no PCA. So right now I am thinking Primary nursing is better. Team nursing care wont work if workers cannot help one another out. At the moment it is failing where I work due to lack of respect for the members of the team and bullying.

I will speak to my coordinator about this issue and see what they have to say. I believe so highly in working within a team and its a huge angst towards those that dont want to commit in a team environment. Some wards have a great team environment, getting in and helping each other out. Some other wards have a bad name. Pity.

JentheRN05, RN · Sep 1, 2005

When I was a nurse intern (utilised as a PCA/CNA), I did all of the bathing, linens, VS, and Accuchecks for 8 pts. I remember being frustrated back then when I would see the nurses sitting down while I ran around. However, now as an RN, I know that even when the nurses are sitting, they are still working, i.e., charting, paging docs, getting orders, charting some more, reviewing charts, looking up lab results, and charting some more, updating family that feels the need to call every hour, clarifying orders that are unreadable or just plain wrong, and on and on. These are just a few of the things they might be doing if you see them sitting. When they are not sitting, they are assessing, giving meds, starting IVs, wound care, counseling, teaching, more assessing, doing admits, restarting the IV a pt just pulled out, getting behind with all of their other pts because one is crashing, and on and on and on. Of course, if the nurse is not busy, she should be willing to help. I don't feel any work is beneath me and I will not turn down a request to help someone else out, but please understand that the duties I outlined above have to take priority above ADLs. Yes, the nurse can help the CNA, but who can help the nurse if she gets behind?

Very good! I commend this entirely. When I was in nursing school, I was usually the first done with everything, then I would help out other students and the aides. But now that I'm an RN, I swear if doing bathes were part of my job description I'd need about 18 hour shifts to get everything done. Especially since I'm new. Once I get comfortable with being a nurse then I am sure I will get back to my helpful self, but in the meantime, I'm just getting used to being a nurse

Super_RN, BSN, RN · Sep 1, 2005

I worked in a LTC as an aide for a year and a half before I recieved my RN license. It was the hardest job I ever had. Most of the nurses helped as much as they could, but they were completely overwhelmed caring for the 60 residents. It was our responsibility to bathe/shower, toliet, turn, feed, clean up...etc. Were there times I didn't get out on time? Absolutely. Now I work in ICU and we don't have aides there to help. We do all of the care, but there are no showers. We just use bath packs. Still, it is usually hard to get everyone done and there are days when someone may not get a bath. Crashing patients, medications, assessments, etc. take precedence over a bath. I am not suggesting these people go for multiple days without one, I am just stating that there are more critical aspects that your nurses may be facing. I am always willing to help an aide (when I float to the floors), but I don't expect to complete their jobs for them. Will I turn a patient after an assessment? Sure! Do I take people to the bathroom? Absolutely! As someone mentioned before, we can help the aides anytime, but when we are behind it's up to us to pull ourselves ahead. I know from experience that showers take time and can take a lllllooooonnnnnnggggg time depending on the patient!

Jaime

Monica RN,BSN · Sep 1, 2005

I do believe in nurses being supportive to the CNA staff and helping them with lights, etc... But I draw the line with showers. A nurse should not be showering anyone. This is just absolutely UNSAFE NURSING for a nurse to be off the unit in a shower room? Liability I will never assume. I was a CNA back in the day, and I know it is a hard job, no doubt.. but there is a definate difference between a cna's job and a nurses job. CNA's can never appreciate what a nurse does unless they become a nurse themselves...the rest I think, just like to complain to much about what everyone else IS NOT doing, rather than focusing on what THEY SHOULD be doing..

Showers... NO WAY!!

AlwazAmbitious · Sep 1, 2005

I do believe in nurses being supportive to the CNA staff and helping them with lights, etc... But I draw the line with showers. A nurse should not be showering anyone. This is just absolutely UNSAFE NURSING for a nurse to be off the unit in a shower room? Liability I will never assume. I was a CNA back in the day, and I know it is a hard job, no doubt.. but there is a definate difference between a cna's job and a nurses job. CNA's can never appreciate what a nurse does unless they become a nurse themselves...the rest I think, just like to complain to much about what everyone else IS NOT doing, rather than focusing on what THEY SHOULD be doing..
Showers... NO WAY!!

Hi Monica, Are RN's required to give bath/showers? Is it in the job description at different hospitals that you have to do that? You also mentioned about leaving the floor or unit to do that. Is it also manatory to stay in the unit at all times while you're working, and is there a liability issue with that also? I'm a pre-nursing student and found the things you said interesting....I believe in being a team player and helping out my coworkers but when does it get to a point where you feel as though they are taking advantage of you? kindness for weakness sort of thing?

hrtprncss · Sep 1, 2005

Sometimes ur so busy that u welcome to have to stay with the patient outside the bathroom while they shower, it gives u a little break, otherwise you're always running around....anyways it's not so bad, i think unless a patient is able to shower him/herself then they should otherwise stick to bed bath/car wash method.

Monica RN,BSN · Sep 7, 2005

Hi Monica, Are RN's required to give bath/showers? Is it in the job description at different hospitals that you have to do that? You also mentioned about leaving the floor or unit to do that. Is it also manatory to stay in the unit at all times while you're working, and is there a liability issue with that also? I'm a pre-nursing student and found the things you said interesting....I believe in being a team player and helping out my coworkers but when does it get to a point where you feel as though they are taking advantage of you? kindness for weakness sort of thing?

In my facility, I am actually the DON, so I do not do direct care unless I offer to help out with a med pass or go in if staffing is short.. (which I do from time to time) however, in no job I had was an RN required to do showers as in a job description. This is not to say that maybe there are facilities that do require this practice? It is just my opinion of what I know over the years in nursing that it would be unsafe to do so, being off the unit, etc. I believe in being a teamplayer and helping out as well. I encourage my staff to help CNA's with many things.. transfers, lights, changing, turning, etc. I can definately say that CNA's will take advantage of nurses kindness if they are willing to help "too much", they will let the nurse do all he/she is willing to do... but a great point was made... who helps the nurse? the CNA's can't with most things.... so I still say, showers are not a good idea for a nurse to be involved in. AS far as leaving the unit.. IE: Lunch, etc, obviously other staff available to watch out for things... how is this diff from being off unit to give a shower? well, 1) you surely cannot leave a resident in a shower unattended, and usually involves at least 20-30 minutes. Most other things, nurse would not be off unit but a few momnets in most cases, (errands, etc)

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Sep 7, 2005

In my facility, I am actually the DON, so I do not do direct care unless I offer to help out with a med pass or go in if staffing is short.. (which I do from time to time) however, in no job I had was an RN required to do showers as in a job description. This is not to say that maybe there are facilities that do require this practice? It is just my opinion of what I know over the years in nursing that it would be unsafe to do so, being off the unit, etc. I believe in being a teamplayer and helping out as well. I encourage my staff to help CNA's with many things.. transfers, lights, changing, turning, etc. I can definately say that CNA's will take advantage of nurses kindness if they are willing to help "too much", they will let the nurse do all he/she is willing to do... but a great point was made... who helps the nurse? the CNA's can't with most things.... so I still say, showers are not a good idea for a nurse to be involved in. AS far as leaving the unit.. IE: Lunch, etc, obviously other staff available to watch out for things... how is this diff from being off unit to give a shower? well, 1) you surely cannot leave a resident in a shower unattended, and usually involves at least 20-30 minutes. Most other things, nurse would not be off unit but a few momnets in most cases, (errands, etc)

You've hit it right on the head. I can remember back, oh! so long ago when I was in RN school that we discussed these kinds of situations in my nursing classes. We were encouraged to think of creative solutions to these kinds of problems, i.e. what are the most important nursing things that need to get done when you are short staffed. I feel for so many of the CNAs who feel so overwhelmed with work, but I also wonder what kind of things they are learning in their nursing schools. Problems like difficulty getting showers done during one's shift is a management problem to the RN. I understand how overwhelmed CNAs are at these kinds of situations, but as nursing students I would expect them to begin thinking about problem solving these situations. There is never just one answer and thinking that the RN has to pitch in and help a CNA with her work is just not a feasible solution most of the time. It pains me that so many CNA student nurses are not understanding their future roles as RNs and charge nurses. Their complaints also suggest that they are either very close-minded, they are not understanding their lessons in the overall management of nursing care, or their schools are failing to teach this to them. I can't think of one nursing instructor that would recommend that an RN pitch in and help out their frazzled CNAs day after day after day without suggesting that there is a much larger problem that needs to be addressed. One of the great advantages of working in a CNA position is getting a front row seat at watching how different RNs handle different situations as they come up. Some handle it well and others handle it poorly. This is where discussion with nursing instructors can help you students figure these things out. Student CNAs have such great learning experiences placed in front of them on their jobs every single day they work!

All CNAs reading this, please, listen to us older experienced RNs about this. . .you have to start practicing to think like RNs even though you don't have the actual authority of an RN yet. You are seeing potential problems that RNs face everyday at their jobs. Pick your instructor's brains about how these situations can be better handled so when your time comes to deal with them you will have some information to help you out. And, I'm not criticizing you. Being a CNA is hard work. Being an RN is hard work. But they are two separate jobs with very different priorities. If you don't learn this in school it will be beat into you when you begin working as RNs. Read some of the posts in the "First year in nursing" forum of the new RNs who are having to experience this "shock".