I've read several threads over time, and I "hear" from both the RN's AND the CNA's that CNA's are there to "help the RN." I am a little lost on this one, I can see in a way what it means, but IMO, EVERYONE is there to help the patients, yes? I think the worst portrayal of this attitude is when CNA's (and NO, definitely not all of them) feel that the RN should kiss their feet for any thing that they do "for them," and should just suck up a poor attitude by that person, because it would be "worse" without them there. It goes the other way, too.
From my perspective, having been a CNA for 5 years before becoming an RN seven years ago, is that no one is REALLY "more" important than the other. We just have different roles. Of course I appreciate working with a good CNA (and I am fortunate, I work with very good ones!) but I don't necessarily think of them as "doing me a favor" when they bathe a patient or answer a light. That's their job. It's mine, too, so I will do both of those things when time permits me. To me, one is doing me a favor when they are working with a different RN and have a patient assignment, but will help me with my blood sugars when I'm working alone, if they have time. THAT'S above and beyond. If they're ON my team, it's not a "favor" to me for them to get sugars....it's an expectation. Now, if I'm going in to a room anyway, I WILL often enough get it myself, I have no problem sharing those tasks. I don't think I'm doing THEM a favor, either, by sharing the baths...we're a team. I do give plenty of "thank you's" when they do their job efficiently and thoroughly, as well. I don't really see anything as strictly theirs to do. If I had a day where I couldn't help with the basic patient care as much as I'd like to/usually do, I will explain to them WHY I had to stick to what are strictly my RN duties (more new orders than usual, a patient having complications, etc).
Anyway. Just my two cents. Any thoughts on this? I would think relations between RN's and UAP would be better overall if EVERYONE took responibiility not only for their jobs, but for all of the patient's care. As soon as an RN OR a CNA feels like the CNA is there just to help the RN, and that any of the work they complete is a favor to them, it gets hard to get ANYTHING done the right way.
Hope this made sense. I've read it several times now, so I just wanted to get that out.
My experience with aides has been in LTC and I think that everyone there is overwhelmed, period. Too few hands for too many disabled people.
My beef is with management, not the aides. On every shift there were a couple of aides who were resentful of what they were expected to do as their job. I have had people tell me that they couldn't help me toilet someone who was care planned as a two-assist because they were doing A. Well, that's fine, but then I have someone aware enough to know that they were forced into incontinence and are humiliated and shamed by it and sat there in tears because no one would help me take them to the toilet. If I can drop my med pass to assure that someone's dignity remains intact you can sure as heck drop rolling that resident to the dining room for 5 minutes.
Most were wonderful. But management would NOT get rid of the bad apples and for that I blame management, not the aides.
All it takes is one bad one to make the work place miserable. There was one aide who was such a pain it was making me physically ill when I had to work with her. Luckily, she quit on her own after she showed her hind end to another nurse and was called on it.
People who don't like being told what to do...you are your own worst enemy. Got news for you, you will have a boss wherever you go, no matter what you do. Get over it. More than once I've had to yes ma'am or yes sir someone when I wanted SO BAD to tell them to kiss my.... You don't get to pick and choose what you will and will not do. That is insubordination and any place that isn't screwy will tell you to hit the door and don't let it hit your you-know-what as you leave. I realize there are plenty of screwy places that allow the aides to run the whole operation but these places usually self-destruct.
okay, i guess it is time for my two cents as well!
i am in ns. i worked as a cna from 2000-2007. right now i work two days a week as a bartender for extra money. my mom is an rn, she has been a nurse for, oh, 25 years now. i worked as her aide in a nursing home.
i was taught that as a cna i was there to 'assist the nurse'.
as an aide i was very motivated. rn's working were not going(to have to do because of my laziness or unwillingness) to do my bed baths, my charting, or getting ice water etc.. sure, it happens, sometimes a nurse will get ice water because she is walking past the machine. i always offered to take it and deliver, because i felt that i should be the one doing that task. the rn is the rn, i was the cna. there were times where it took 2 cna's to do a job, and the rn would do a quick 'cna' type job because we were tied up, but i tried not to let it happen too much. i learned which patients needed extra care, and easily managed. not that i feel a bed bath is 'beneath' an rn, but it takes away from the rn's duties, and takes time away fromher already hectic schedule.
my mom certainly had an impact on my views, and my work ethic, as i saw how hard she worked. it is not beneath me to say that a cna is just that, an aide to the nurse.
messes are made. if a nurse is doing a med pass and drops something, why should i not clean it up? med passes are a beeotch, if a nurse drops water i will be mroe than happy to clean it up. why wait for a janitor, it can take awhile sometimes.. #1 someone could slip, #2 a med pass more important than cleaning up a spill. it does not take 5 seconds to do, but i would have rather seen the rn spend 5 seconds on her meds.
i am not a pushover, i do not let people walk on me. i was taught that i was there for the rn, that i was vital to ensuring a successful flow.
yes, i did what the rn's asked, and i worked with awesome rn's. they could count on me, and i took pride in that.
i hope that when i begin my rn career that i can have good cna's to count on as well.
my mom certainly had an impact on my views, and my work ethic, as i saw how hard she worked. it is not beneath me to say that a cna is just that, an aide to the nurse.
messes are made. if a nurse is doing a med pass and drops something, why should i not clean it up? med passes are a beeotch, if a nurse drops water i will be mroe than happy to clean it up. why wait for a janitor, it can take awhile sometimes.. #1 someone could slip, #2 a med pass more important than cleaning up a spill. it does not take 5 seconds to do, but i would have rather seen the rn spend 5 seconds on her meds.
yes, i did what the rn's asked, and i worked with awesome rn's. they could count on me, and i took pride in that.
:yeah:wanna come be my cna? lol j/k sounds like as a cna you have your business straight. just like me when i was a tech. but you know while cnas are there to assist a nurse, as a nurse i don't expect my techs to clean up after me. (not to say that my cnas like you wouldnt come over and say "oh i'll clean that don't worry) at the same time if something is going that requires >1 cna and i am not busy myself i have no problem helping out. yes that even means changin ppl.
I treat the CNAs I work with with the same respect that any coworker deserves. I fail to see how expecting them to do the job that they were hired to do is disrespectful.
right now i am not working as a cna, i am focusing on nursing school, i am getting my rn :) i am very excited about the next phase in my 'career'.
i really believe that having a mom as a nurse and seeing what she did as i grew up, really affected the way i worked as a cna.
back before privacy laws were so strict, she would take me around the hospital floor and explain stuff to me.
like another poster explained, my mom taught me that as an rn she had to delegate responsibility, and make big decisions. growing up i saw nurses as magical women/men :) people that made the lives of others better.
i will say that i agree... as a cna i was not part of nursing staff. in college the program was under 'allied health'.
You are an important part of the team but you are most definitely NOT a part of the nursing staff.
I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, but in my CNA class (well, actually, in KY I think it's called state registered nursing assistants), we were taught that the CNA is a vital part of the nursing team. CNAs are not nurses, and can get into trouble for claiming to be, but I believe they are still a part of the nursing staff/team/whatever you want to call it.
Maybe if the RN's would explain their reasoning for wanting to change the way things are done, the CNA would be less resentful? I think maybe the CNAs feel like the nurses are just power-tripping, while the RNs think the CNAs are being bratty.
I'm not either one right now, although I did just take the state test for CNA, and I'm starting nursing school in Jan., so I'll get to see it from both sides I guess.
Where the nurse cannot use her own two hands to care for a patient, because the nurse has to deal with tasks that cannot be delegated, the CNA will be those hands... and eyes, ears and nose.
This is why an intelligent and caring CNA is vital.
The nurse needs the CNA to be a physical extension of themselves.
It was not a role created because the nurses don't want to do "CNA" work.
"CNA" work IS basic nursing... but the more complex and time consuming tasks keep the RN from being able to perform these basic tasks with QUALITY.
It is about QUALITY care for the PATIENT. NOT so the nurse can "get out of" doing it.
Because these are very basic skills that are easily taught and understood, they have been deemed acceptable to delegate.
When the aide ignores their role or does not understand prioritizing to fit the nursing plan, they undermine good nursing care and jepordize a nurses' license.
Ice water pass does NOT trump out a good set of vitals. Common sense.
Some aides get it, some don't.
Yes, the aide has jobs to perform, but they must still be done with care and a sense of the "big picture".
There is no shame in the role of a CNA. You are entrusted with lives and to work under someone's license. That's a big deal.
But my instructor told us, first day of class, be prepared to be humble.
I have been an aide for 20 years... and a darn good one. It's about understanding your role.
I was a NA on the same floor where I'm now an RN. I work in postpartum.
I can remember thinking --she only has 3 rooms, 6 patients, and I have eight rooms, 16 people. It will be so much easier when I am a nurse.
I can say now that I didn't have any idea what I was thinking. I was in nursing school at the time, too.
It's impossible to know what a job entails until you've done it. So many times, our NA's and patients see us charting, or looking up info on the computer, or calling the doctor, and maybe that looks like I am not 'working', but I am. Once I heard a patient's family member say "These people don't work, they are just writing things down." These sitting down tasks are important, too. I can see how it looks from the outside, though. It's all a matter of perspective.
I work with great NA's. We work as a team. I worked hard when I was an NA, but that doesn't mean that I knew what the nurse's job was then. I was treated with respect, just as I treated everyone else around me. And if I was asked to do something, it wasn't because the nurse didn't want to do it. Now that I am the RN, I try to be considerate of the NA's too. I am not above taking ppl to the bathroom or getting ice water. Honestly, it seems silly to try to find another person to do something I can do when I am right there.
I do have to admit that sometimes with difficult patients, whichever NA I am working with and I will coordinate so that we either alternate trips to the patient's room or go in together so neither of us gets overwhelmed.
Everyone has an important role. However, a nurse and a nursing assistant are not equal roles, though the people filling those roles are equal as human beings. Everyone deserves to be treated with simple human dignity and respect.
I was a NA on the same floor where I'm now an RN. I work in postpartum.
I can remember thinking --she only has 3 rooms, 6 patients, and I have eight rooms, 16 people. It will be so much easier when I am a nurse.
I can say now that I didn't have any idea what I was thinking. I was in nursing school at the time, too.
I used to think like that, too. Since I've become an RN, I've heard those words come out of the mouths of CNAs as well. "She's only got four patients, and I've got ten, so she can watch her own call lights.", or some such nonsense. When I was being orientated as a CNA, the experienced CNA told me "A lot of the nurses will try to get you to do their work for them. You just have to tell them "No", because you've got your own work to do.".
As I said in a previous post, I can understand the demands of the job of CNA, because I was one. However, the CNA cannot understand the demands the nurse must contend with, because they have not had that experience. That, in my opinion, is at the root of the conflict we see between so many CNAs and nurses.
There is so much passion in the thread, I think it is fantastic to see. There are many of you are so very proud of what you do, RN's LPN's and CNA'a alike, and you defend it brilliantly. There is so much lethargy in healthcare that one thing that this site always reminds me of is there are still healthcare workers out there who do feel strongly about the care they provide. Now you may all wonder where this is going, there is the risk when such strong feelings are aired that posts can become personal.
So really, what I am trying to say is that you don't have to agree with each other but could I please appeal to you to keep your responses respectful.
Jo Dirt
3,270 Posts
All it takes is one bad one to make the work place miserable. There was one aide who was such a pain it was making me physically ill when I had to work with her. Luckily, she quit on her own after she showed her hind end to another nurse and was called on it.
People who don't like being told what to do...you are your own worst enemy. Got news for you, you will have a boss wherever you go, no matter what you do. Get over it. More than once I've had to yes ma'am or yes sir someone when I wanted SO BAD to tell them to kiss my.... You don't get to pick and choose what you will and will not do. That is insubordination and any place that isn't screwy will tell you to hit the door and don't let it hit your you-know-what as you leave. I realize there are plenty of screwy places that allow the aides to run the whole operation but these places usually self-destruct.