I just graduated from a LPN program, PROUDLY! I learned so much, and am very thankful for the year. I know my LPN program has prepared me well for the kind of nurse I want to be (patient-centered, not just "theory"-centered).
I started a regular RN program last week. I don't tell people I'm an LPN, but it's getting out since I'm at the same school I did the LPN, and some instructors know me. I just wanted to start off on "equal" terms new RN students (no LPNs here) and didn't want people to think I'm "different".
These new RN students generally have no health care experience. I'm talking, we're learning to make beds, learning which end the probe goes on the thermometer, etc. No problem here, but the problem I'm having is their opinion of themselves as the "leader" in the clinical setting. There are LPNs at the clinical site, and EVEN our instructor overlooks the LPN. She tells us to go to the RN for ANY questions. Let me tell you, I KNOW the LPN is the one who knows what's going on with the patient, as I saw HER doing all the meds, interacting with the patients, etc. It's not the set-up that is bothering me, rather the overt disrespect that is given to the LPN by our instructor in front of these students who walked in without an opinion of LPNs. Walking out, our instructor is leading this group of RNs on step one of the path of the negative labelling of LPNs. Our instructor clearly gave the role of the RN, the role of the nurse tech, and then said that she's surprised that LPNs are still here at the hospital. I just had to ask, who do we go to if our all-mighty nurse (she wouldn't acknowledge the LPN as "nurse") goes on break? Can we go to the LPN if we have a question?? NO!!! She said to go to another RN! I know for a fact that the LPN and RN don't take lunch the same time, and the RN doesn't even give a report about patients to any other RN, as she knows that the LPN is overseeing the patients.
I'm just seeing that the LPN identity crisis (at least in my region) and blatant disrespect starts right on the first week of nursing school. If these students only realized that many people who aren't RNs have a bit of wisdom to share, those students might have a chance of getting in on it. What a shame, and how enlightening, yet disappointing, for me to see.
Personally I would have been offended by the instructors comment. But of course as you know you have to let it go and move on. :) I've worked with excellent LPNs, not so great RNs and vice versa but its still disheartening to hear comments that insinuate LPNs aren't nurses. Many of the LPNs at my facility run circles around me and sadly I get paid way more than they do because I went to 2 1/2 extra semesters of school. I'm not saying it wasn't a valuable addition to my education just that it doesn't mean I'm all the sudden a great nurse. Oh and btw I found LPN school to be just as difficult and graduated at the top of my RN class in theory without the slightest worry that I wouldn't pass RN-NCLEX the first time around.
You need to keep in mind that you are now in an RN program and you should expect that the instructors are trying to convey to the RN students that they are the leaders because that is true. The RN is typically in charge and bears legal responsibility when both RNs and LPNs are working on a unit. Therefore the new RNs should learn how to take control of a situation since they will be held accountable. Hard to be held accountable for a poor outcome when you just stood by and watched when you should have been in charge. Concentrate on the issues at hand. Don't get dragged into comparisons. There is no time for debating this past the discussion of the difference in scope of practice that should have already taken place. If you keep bringing it up, or allow yourself to be drawn into these conversations, you will create an unfavorable environment for yourself. Let the others do the talking. After all, remember that you possess a license that you can get a job with and they are still students.
hey, I am a new graduated LPN just got hired in the hospital, in Michigan. I can see what you are saying about the way LPN's are treated sometimes. Some doctors event told me they want to talk to the "real nurse" the RN... OK...i didn't say a word cause I am still new. However, I met this one LPN that has been on the floor for 28 years and she is the one to ask if any questions...
I really appreciate this site because the "OVERLY SENSITIVE" types of topics that aren't appropriate at school or work can USUALLY be discussed freely here, and people help with their opinions. The first thing I did was thank you for sharing your perspective.
My topic is "RN program; not much credit given to LPNs". I gave my examples, where new students didn't even know LPNs were "real" nurses, and then the instructor adding she couldn't believe the hospital even used LPNs, to when the unit recognizes the LPN to be in charge of patients while on the hour lunch, but the instructor says the students may not confer with her about the patients during the break. I am, in fact, aware of the world outside school. It's not good for LPNs right now. Nurse Techs are more clearly understood and utilized, it seems, than LPNs. MY OPINION here is that NTs pose no threat, whereas LPNs are SOMETIMES seen as a threat, as they can truly function (in most states) NEARLY the same clinically as a RN.
One thing we WERE taught in LPN school was the value of therapeutic communication, and part of this includes staying on topic and not extending beyond the facts and examples someone shares. I meant nothing personal by this thread, I was merely giving my experience, and seeing that it made sense as to what's going on at SCHOOL to lead to what HAPPENS in the "real" world.
I never stated that you couldn't vent...but since this is a message board, folks, like me, are going to have opinions based on what is posted.
I never bashed you or LPN's..something I think you are forgetting...nor do I have a biased against LPN's.
The comment that your instructor made about how she couldn't believe that LPN's were still working in the hospital is in NO WAY bashing of LPN's.
There are two, large, specialty hospitals in my area. LPN's are not hired to work in any unit except for med-surg. It is not uncommon to see entire floors of RN's...some of these floors do not even hire a CNA...the RN's do it all, especially in the critical care units...they offset it by lower patient ratio.
What you don't seem to understand, that it's not a matter of discrimination against LPN's or that people are "looking down" at LPN's...I stand by my comment that you are being overly-sensitive...you took a couple of comments that an instructor made and turned into a conspiracy against all LPN's...that is quite different from posting, "What the instructor said really hit a nerve today"..your post went much farther than that.
It's a matter of the technology moving on, liability getting higher and higher, nurses expecting to do more and more and thus, needing more education and training. This will continue throughout our lives.
I have family members who are 80+ years who were registered nurses. The scope of practice is like night and day compared to modern day nursing. When I tell them what I am learning, they remark how they could not imagine having to learn all I have to learn with being in school...for them, the transition from the "order taker" from the doctor to being a critical thinker happened so gradually throughout their careers they didn't even notice they were doing it...they just called it experience...we now know that it's a very, fine-tuned skill that you just get the basics on in school and you will continue to sharpen that skill throughout your career.
If you are looking for the tear in the silver lining...trust me, if you look hard enough, you will find it.
hey, I am a new graduated LPN just got hired in the hospital, in Michigan. I can see what you are saying about the way LPN's are treated sometimes. Some doctors event told me they want to talk to the "real nurse" the RN... OK...i didn't say a word cause I am still new. However, I met this one LPN that has been on the floor for 28 years and she is the one to ask if any questions...
Im going back to school to get my Rn soon...
To me...THAT is LPN bashing...steam would be coming out of my ears if I heard a doctor say that...it's very unprofessional.
I just graduated from a LPN program, PROUDLY! I learned so much, and am very thankful for the year. I know my LPN program has prepared me well for the kind of nurse I want to be (patient-centered, not just "theory"-centered).
I started a regular RN program last week. I don't tell people I'm an LPN, but it's getting out since I'm at the same school I did the LPN, and some instructors know me. I just wanted to start off on "equal" terms new RN students (no LPNs here) and didn't want people to think I'm "different".
These new RN students generally have no health care experience. I'm talking, we're learning to make beds, learning which end the probe goes on the thermometer, etc. No problem here, but the problem I'm having is their opinion of themselves as the "leader" in the clinical setting. There are LPNs at the clinical site, and EVEN our instructor overlooks the LPN. She tells us to go to the RN for ANY questions. Let me tell you, I KNOW the LPN is the one who knows what's going on with the patient, as I saw HER doing all the meds, interacting with the patients, etc. It's not the set-up that is bothering me, rather the overt disrespect that is given to the LPN by our instructor in front of these students who walked in without an opinion of LPNs. Walking out, our instructor is leading this group of RNs on step one of the path of the negative labelling of LPNs. Our instructor clearly gave the role of the RN, the role of the nurse tech, and then said that she's surprised that LPNs are still here at the hospital. I just had to ask, who do we go to if our all-mighty nurse (she wouldn't acknowledge the LPN as "nurse") goes on break? Can we go to the LPN if we have a question?? NO!!! She said to go to another RN! I know for a fact that the LPN and RN don't take lunch the same time, and the RN doesn't even give a report about patients to any other RN, as she knows that the LPN is overseeing the patients.
I'm just seeing that the LPN identity crisis (at least in my region) and blatant disrespect starts right on the first week of nursing school. If these students only realized that many people who aren't RNs have a bit of wisdom to share, those students might have a chance of getting in on it. What a shame, and how enlightening, yet disappointing, for me to see.
Very sad, but I believe it has a lot to do with shortages in the health care field. There isn't as much time spent on perfecting teamwork among the different roles since there are "bigger issues" to deal with.
I think you were reading too much into my post...nothing I said was demeaning in any way and I didn't say a single word where I suggested nor said that LPN's were not valuable, knowledgable, or not a critical part of the healthcare team.
Just as you got a certain perception from my post...I got a certain perception from yours...you seemed to take great offense that the instructor specifically told you to go to the RN if you had any questions as if that, in of itself, were demeaning to LPN's.
You have to remember...clinicals is school...it's not a work environment. You are in an RN program so your instructor wants you to get your assistance from another RN...what is odd/strange/demeaning about that?
Of course you are going to go to pretty much anyone that is qualified to answer any nursing/medical question you have when you are working. I don't really care if someone has an LPN or RN after their name when I am at the hospital...if I think they can help me or answer my question..I ask and trust their experience.
Delegation/Leadership is only one part of an RN's training...I never stated, nor suggested, that they weren't supposed to utilize the entire roster of the healthcare team...I disagree with you that it's not important...it's important enough to where I have to take an entire class on the subject that is separate from my regular nursing classes.
There is a whole thread here somewhere on this board where there was this huge debate on if an LPN with so many years of experience even needed to go to school to become an RN or should they be permitted to just challenge the NCLEX...I came across it recently...several LPN's that had completed RN coursework all said the same thing...you don't think there is a difference in what you do...until you go.
I have never been to LPN school...so I have no idea of what that whole scope of training is like nor pretend to. I just know what I have seen and what I have been taught.
In my mind they are both nurses..and to me, that is all that is important.
I started that post about challenging the NCLEX and there also were people who also said nothing changed for them (becoming an RN after being an LPN.) But now that I am going back to school, I'll let you know if I feel any different. :) Some of the hoops they make you jump through are annoying. For example, Math for nurses is not a course I am exempt from. I start next week, I've already been through the book, there is not one thing in there I didn't already know how to do. All I want is to be tested for all that I already know, and given what I don't. Bridge programs just repeat too much info in my opinion. I'm with Suesquatch as far as 'critically thinking' goes, I believe I already know how to 'critically think', by the way, even if I am technically not supposed to be able to. That does bug me that some RNs think we don't know how, but again if I am proven wrong I promise to come back and post so!
I started that post about challenging the NCLEX and there also were people who also said nothing changed for them (becoming an RN after being an LPN.) But now that I am going back to school, I'll let you know if I feel any different. :) Some of the hoops they make you jump through are annoying. For example, Math for nurses is not a course I am exempt from. I start next week, I've already been through the book, there is not one thing in there I didn't already know how to do. All I want is to be tested for all that I already know, and given what I don't. Bridge programs just repeat too much info in my opinion. I'm with Suesquatch as far as 'critically thinking' goes, I believe I already know how to 'critically think', by the way, even if I am technically not supposed to be able to. That does bug me that some RNs think we don't know how, but again if I am proven wrong I promise to come back and post so!
the program i am going to requires LPN's to take a series of 5 or so tests to get credit for any of your nursing courses.. they are $150 a peice! and if you don't pass or don't take them, you start from the beginning and do not even get any fast-track credits. so i am seriously studying before i take them because that will shave off four semesters of the ADN program! i have to take exams on fundamentals, peds, gi/gu/endocrine/respiratory, maternity and pharm.
i would have loved to take EC courses but i am not 100% of florida's stance on them and would also like to travel to california one day... so i am afraid.
I just graduated from a LPN program, PROUDLY! I learned so much, and am very thankful for the year. I know my LPN program has prepared me well for the kind of nurse I want to be (patient-centered, not just "theory"-centered).
I started a regular RN program last week. I don't tell people I'm an LPN, but it's getting out since I'm at the same school I did the LPN, and some instructors know me. I just wanted to start off on "equal" terms new RN students (no LPNs here) and didn't want people to think I'm "different".
I'm just seeing that the LPN identity crisis (at least in my region) and blatant disrespect starts right on the first week of nursing school. If these students only realized that many people who aren't RNs have a bit of wisdom to share, those students might have a chance of getting in on it. What a shame, and how enlightening, yet disappointing, for me to see.
I want to let you know that I understand how you feel. It is very frustrating to possess knowledge/critical thinking skills and to not be recognized as possessing them.
Nursing school is THE Ivory Tower of Nursing. It's kinda like that first kiss........everything goes downhill from there, but I digress.
Nursing Instructors teach Nursing from the halls of the Ivory Tower. In the Ivory Tower world of Nursing, the RN delegates patient care to the disciplines that function under the RN license. (Guess who that is?) When you get to the point of taking the NCLEX-RN exam and you don't see it that way, you're not going to do very well. If you skip the RN and go to the LPN/LVN about patient care issues when you're sitting down and taking the NCLEX - you will not get those NCLEX answers right.....and the NCLEX KNOWS what your weak areas are!
On it's face, to instruct a nursing student to go to the RN and NOT the LPN is correct. What you do in the real world is up to you.
My very best wishes to you as you progress through your nursing program.
the program i am going to requires LPN's to take a series of 5 or so tests to get credit for any of your nursing courses.. they are $150 a peice! and if you don't pass or don't take them, you start from the beginning and do not even get any fast-track credits. so i am seriously studying before i take them because that will shave off four semesters of the ADN program! i have to take exams on fundamentals, peds, gi/gu/endocrine/respiratory, maternity and pharm.
i would have loved to take EC courses but i am not 100% of florida's stance on them and would also like to travel to california one day... so i am afraid.
good luck with school.... you will do great!
Wow, you $150 a piece to "prove" your worthiness. I'm sure there is logic in there, but if I were in your shoes I would just go right into the ADN program. It's not worth it to spend $10,000 on an LVN program just to turn around and pay an additional $750 to prove you retained something. On the other hand, you could always look into another program. Or is that how the entire nursing system is set up in Florida?
DebanamRN, MSN, RN
601 Posts