how to report a teacher to the BRN?

[scibruin]

On a clinical day my instructor patted me down and searched me looking for my cell phone, which she found, yelled at me for a while then sent me home. I feel violated and humiliated. I want to know my rights as a student and her rights as an instructor (whether or not she can touch or search me). I would like to bring this to the attention of the BRN but don't know how. Any ideas how to handle this?? i've been so distraught over this here i am at 1 am thinking about it when i should be sleeping!!

[morte, LPN, LVN]

One point I'd like to make -- it doesn't sound like the CI actually lifted the student's top, exposing her body underneath (at least, that's not the way I read it).

If you "pat someone down" you can feel and find objects that are "under" the clothes without actually putting your hands underneath the clothes. (Do you put your hands INSIDE a patient's abdomen when you palpate? Or can you feel things in there through their skin?) Just because the CI found the phone in a hip holster "under the lab coat and scrubs" doesn't mean that the CI's hands were underneath the lab coat and scrubs.

And I personally find the discussion of "battery" inane and insane -- but that's just me and my fed-up-ness of dealing with everyone thinking that they can sue someone for getting their feelings hurt. Which would the OP have preferred -- the phone being found via pat-down and life going on, or getting dismissed from the program for BLATANT disregard for the rules???

It matters not if the CI put their hands under or over the clothing......unpermitted touching is illegal. Battery in some states and assualt in some states....this certainly would play havoc with the CIs profession, wouldnt it?

[brillohead, ADN, RN]

It matters not if the CI put their hands under or over the clothing......unpermitted touching is illegal. Battery in some states and assualt in some states....this certainly would play havoc with the CIs profession, wouldnt it?

My comment was intended as a clarification... some posts mentioned "lifting your shirt" or other things that were not specifically detailed in the original post. And once one person mentions lifting the shirt, everyone seems to assume that this actually happened.

As for "unpermitted touching" being illegal, is everyone REALLY going to sue every person who has ever bumped into you without your permission (crowded sidewalk, sale at Bloomies, mosh pit at a concert, falling patient who grabs your arm to catch themselves)??? Seriously, we need to draw the line somewhere, folks! I'm sure that the OP didn't fear for her life because of the pat-down, nor was she physically restrained (kidnapped).

While the CI shouldn't have "humiliated" the OP (who should have been humiliated at having broken the rule in the first place, but whatever), I hardly see where this one incident in the entire NS experience is worth all this upheaval. Seems to me like there's some "history" between the OP and the CI beyond this one incident.

As for whether the OP should have been allowed to have the phone (which is what some folks here are arguing), if it's a rule in that program or that facility, it's a rule. Doesn't matter if MDs or RNs are allowed to have phones, doesn't matter if facility X allows it but facility Y does not -- plain and simple, it wasn't allowed and the OP purposely violated the rule. (If you're not allowed to have narcotics in your pocket and you get caught with them, is it a valid defense to say, "But I didn't take/use them!!!"??? Saying that the phone wasn't even on is no excuse, if it wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.)

Could the CI have handled it in a 'nicer' manner? Yep. But can everyone here say that they've never had a CI make them feel stupid/humiliated? (Why do I see so many threads about "my CI hates me" if it's not pretty common?) Wanting to report (or file criminal/civil charges against) a CI for having enforced the rules in a way that hurt someone's feelings is just preposterous -- IMO. Everyone's entitled to have their own opinion, and this is my own.

[Purple_Scrubs, BSN, RN]

As for "unpermitted touching" being illegal, is everyone REALLY going to sue every person who has ever bumped into you without your permission (crowded sidewalk, sale at Bloomies, mosh pit at a concert, falling patient who grabs your arm to catch themselves)??? Seriously, we need to draw the line somewhere, folks! I'm sure that the OP didn't fear for her life because of the pat-down, nor was she physically restrained (kidnapped).

There was nothing accidental about the instructor's actions. If you are going to use analogies, at least use ones that make sense and apply to the situation at hand. If you want to use a more appropriate analogy, if some random guy in a bar grabs my breast, yes, I would press charges. The action was delibrate and inappropriate.

If the OP was my kid/friend/sister/mother...I would be outraged that someone laid their hands on her without her permission. The OP was wrong to have the phone, no doubt about that, and had she been given a 0, or asked to leave, or whatever reasonable consequence the instructor deemed necessary, this would be a non-issue. The fact is that someone in a position of authority put their hands on her without permission. The instructor should have to answer to that, just as the OP should have to answer to the fact that she broke the rules.

Two wrongs never make a right.

[AOx1]

First violation of the rules: the incident should be documented with witnesses.

Second violation of the rules: I would remove the student from the clinical setting and potentially fail the student.

Some clinical settings will not allow a school back who repeatedly violates rules, and this could impact the school's placement at the clinical site. The OP needs to learn that the rules also apply to them.

Every school's policy differs, but this was blatant and repeated disregard for known rules. It will get you fired at your job, assuming you graduate.

That said, I would have insisted the student hand over the phone and not have touched them.

The CI should understand boundaries, but the OP needs to understand rules and follow them. Both have made mistakes if the OP's account is accurate. I do agree with other posts who state that by pursuing this, you are also acknowledging that you willfully violated the rules on two occasions, which does not make you look professional. Also, as others have stated, learn and follow the chain of command at school and in a future workplace. Many schools will not even hear your appeal if you do not follow chain of command for the appeals process.

[labrador4122, RN]

First violation of the rules: the incident should be documented with witnesses.

Second violation of the rules: I would remove the student from the clinical setting and potentially fail the student.

Some clinical settings will not allow a school back who repeatedly violates rules, and this could impact the school's placement at the clinical site. The OP needs to learn that the rules also apply to them.

Every school's policy differs, but this was blatant and repeated disregard for known rules. It will get you fired at your job, assuming you graduate.

That said, I would have insisted the student hand over the phone and not have touched them.

The CI should understand boundaries, but the OP needs to understand rules and follow them. Both have made mistakes if the OP's account is accurate. I do agree with other posts who state that by pursuing this, you are also acknowledging that you willfully violated the rules on two occasions, which does not make you look professional. Also, as others have stated, learn and follow the chain of command at school and in a future workplace. Many schools will not even hear your appeal if you do not follow chain of command for the appeals process.

I agree, if the student is not following the rules, the student should be removed from clinicals.

First of all, a student having a cell phone on them, and the OP stated it was off, that should not give justice to a pat down, I would of rather taken the student out of clinical instead of touching them.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

One point I'd like to make -- it doesn't sound like the CI actually lifted the student's top, exposing her body underneath (at least, that's not the way I read it).

If you "pat someone down" you can feel and find objects that are "under" the clothes without actually putting your hands underneath the clothes. (Do you put your hands INSIDE a patient's abdomen when you palpate? Or can you feel things in there through their skin?) Just because the CI found the phone in a hip holster "under the lab coat and scrubs" doesn't mean that the CI's hands were underneath the lab coat and scrubs.

And I personally find the discussion of "battery" inane and insane -- but that's just me and my fed-up-ness of dealing with everyone thinking that they can sue someone for getting their feelings hurt. Which would the OP have preferred -- the phone being found via pat-down and life going on, or getting dismissed from the program for BLATANT disregard for the rules???

This was posted from the OP, IF we take this as fact, that is what I have spoke on. It is NEVER ok for someone to put their hands on someone else without their permission unless they have the authority to do so.

Do I think the OP should sue, absolutely not, do I think she was violated, if this is exactly how it happened, absolutely. Do I think she should have gotten in trouble for having her phone on her and breaking rules. Absolutely. I just think it should have been handled in an appropriate matter. What was described below is not the appropriate steps for an instructor to take. I am not suggesting she seek legal action.

Do I believe their is more to the story, absolutely, we don't have all the facts, their are 3 sides to every story. All I can do is give my opinion on the facts that were presented and that is what I commented on.

she began to pat me down while i was looking at my watch. i was so shocked at her doing that i was just standing there looking at her. no i wasn't using it, it wasn't even on. when she felt something under my top and labcoat she picked up my uniform top and saw it tucked into my hip holster. she didn't demand to see anything she didn't ask, nothing she began to put her hands on me almost joking but not.

[redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN]

Except that the first couple of pages of the thread are full of "You totally deserved it" posts, as well as "When will these kids bow down and surrender to the AUTHORITAH of nursing instructors" posts.

Hmm. And I read it and don't think the people said she deserved it. So, we disagree. It happens.

The issues that have been discussed are germane to original issue. If you'd like, you can go back and read my first post, which says nothing about the BRN and focuses on how inappropriate it is for a clinical instructor to pat down a student. I'm sorry if you don't think that's topical. You'll also notice that I said that a clinical instructor can dismiss a student for the day for cause, without even bothering to engage in a search.

The question: how do I report a teacher to the BRN for feeling me up? The answer: you shouldn't, for various reasons, which I did discuss, contrary to your claims. Don't get me wrong, we're all truly impressed that you know what the 4th Amendment says. But most of us just don't care, and aren't very sympathetic to the OP.

I do enjoy that you're attacking me for being irrelevant, when I was pointing out the irrelevance of the information given by you and one other poster. LOL

You came in with an attitude and got some back. Don't dish out what you can't take.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

My comment was intended as a clarification... some posts mentioned "lifting your shirt" or other things that were not specifically detailed in the original post. And once one person mentions lifting the shirt, everyone seems to assume that this actually happened.

As for "unpermitted touching" being illegal, is everyone REALLY going to sue every person who has ever bumped into you without your permission (crowded sidewalk, sale at Bloomies, mosh pit at a concert, falling patient who grabs your arm to catch themselves)??? Seriously, we need to draw the line somewhere, folks! I'm sure that the OP didn't fear for her life because of the pat-down, nor was she physically restrained (kidnapped).

While the CI shouldn't have "humiliated" the OP (who should have been humiliated at having broken the rule in the first place, but whatever), I hardly see where this one incident in the entire NS experience is worth all this upheaval. Seems to me like there's some "history" between the OP and the CI beyond this one incident.

As for whether the OP should have been allowed to have the phone (which is what some folks here are arguing), if it's a rule in that program or that facility, it's a rule. Doesn't matter if MDs or RNs are allowed to have phones, doesn't matter if facility X allows it but facility Y does not -- plain and simple, it wasn't allowed and the OP purposely violated the rule. (If you're not allowed to have narcotics in your pocket and you get caught with them, is it a valid defense to say, "But I didn't take/use them!!!"??? Saying that the phone wasn't even on is no excuse, if it wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.)

Could the CI have handled it in a 'nicer' manner? Yep. But can everyone here say that they've never had a CI make them feel stupid/humiliated? (Why do I see so many threads about "my CI hates me" if it's not pretty common?) Wanting to report (or file criminal/civil charges against) a CI for having enforced the rules in a way that hurt someone's feelings is just preposterous -- IMO. Everyone's entitled to have their own opinion, and this is my own.

Actually she did mention the instructor lifting something, I quoted it above. Absolutely we should draw the lines, I draw the line at someone grabbing at me INAPPROPRIATELY (as in a sexual matter not accidentally bumping me) and someone PATTING ME DOWN without my permission or lifting any part of my clothing (unless it's a child or mentally disabled person that doesn't understand fully what they are doing.

Further more, if an instructor feels this is an appropriate action, what will stop this from happening again. The instructor needs to no boundaries.

Sendena-WELL SAID!!!!!

[redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN]

I would definitely report that teacher, and also get statements from witnesses if there were any. Go to your board of nursing website, and search from there. because by telling it to the dean, won't do anything, they protect their own...

But the Board of Nursing isn't going to give a flip either. Someone here quoted the purpose of the BRN and it wasn't to protect students from being felt up.

Okay, want to know what I think she should do from a legal perspective? She was violated, folks! She should call the police and have them file a report and prosecute for battery - possibly criminal sexual assault!

But I personally wouldn't. Because I want a degree. lol

[redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN]

Seems to me like there's some "history" between the OP and the CI beyond this one incident.

Heck, it sounded to me like some students were trying to out her or get her in trouble anyway. They're asking her for the time in a clinical? Don't these people have watches on? Not to add to the speculation, but it just seemed weird for ppl to keep asking her for the time, as if she possesses the only clock synchronized with Greenwich or wherever they keep that freaking clock, lol.

[scibruin]

I was apologized to and transfered to another clinical instructor for the remainder of this class (which is my last one). The instructor that this happened with is no stranger to student related issues and this one just got swept under the rug like the rest. THis is why I was looking for options because I felt so strongly about what happened to me and how I felt about it and the future students having to go through this torturous teacher. My immediate issue is resolved but I am still considering filing paperwork with the school and district AFTER I finish the program in a couple of weeks.

I just want to say the phone has nothing to do with hospital policy or relations, it is a school and teacher preference/policy, other teachers allow the use of phones like a pda with tabers and drug references (at this same school and hospital). And even if it was hospital policy, those of you saying the instructor isn't held to the same standards as students she is held to the same standards across hospital policy.

I was sent home that day after she yelled at me, which i didn't even mention she cussed and screamed at me in the hospital hallway (which in itself was another unprofessional way to handle things). She didn't ask to see it, I didn't lie, i wasn't given a chance, she put her hands on me before I knew what was even going on. So I did suffer consequences of having my phone, I was sent home an hour early. I think most of you are missing the big issue I had which was harassment. She put her hands on me and searched me and yes touched my body in a manner that I felt uncomfortable. This outraged me and I lost plenty of sleep over it. No matter what I did the instructor has no right to put her hands on me. I messed up, she messed up bigger.

Those of you questioning my story I have no reason to lie here, nothing to gain from it. I was simply looking for options. I already know the chain of command at my program, school, and district, I was looking to see if there were any other options or steps involved, it didn't mean I was going to pursue them I just wanted to be informed.

[greenfiremajick]

A question that's been bothering me.....Were you guys on a more than student/teacher friendly basis? I'm not asking if you guys were in a sexual relationship-I'm asking if there was a friendship or a closeness, there? I ask because in one of your posts you had said she was laughing, etc and then she got to your phone. This made me think that maybe you guys were close before this happened and maybe you thought it was OK to have the phone because you didn't need to take that too seriously? Is this correct, or way off base?

I did not realize this was your last semester. I think that makes a huge difference in whether or not I would have reported this issue!

I was apologized to and transfered to another clinical instructor for the remainder of this class (which is my last one). The instructor that this happened with is no stranger to student related issues and this one just got swept under the rug like the rest. THis is why I was looking for options because I felt so strongly about what happened to me and how I felt about it and the future students having to go through this torturous teacher. My immediate issue is resolved but I am still considering filing paperwork with the school and district AFTER I finish the program in a couple of weeks.

I just want to say the phone has nothing to do with hospital policy or relations, it is a school and teacher preference/policy, other teachers allow the use of phones like a pda with tabers and drug references (at this same school and hospital). And even if it was hospital policy, those of you saying the instructor isn't held to the same standards as students she is held to the same standards across hospital policy.

I was sent home that day after she yelled at me, which i didn't even mention she cussed and screamed at me in the hospital hallway (which in itself was another unprofessional way to handle things). She didn't ask to see it, I didn't lie, i wasn't given a chance, she put her hands on me before I knew what was even going on. So I did suffer consequences of having my phone, I was sent home an hour early. I think most of you are missing the big issue I had which was harassment. She put her hands on me and searched me and yes touched my body in a manner that I felt uncomfortable. This outraged me and I lost plenty of sleep over it. No matter what I did the instructor has no right to put her hands on me. I messed up, she messed up bigger.

Those of you questioning my story I have no reason to lie here, nothing to gain from it. I was simply looking for options. I already know the chain of command at my program, school, and district, I was looking to see if there were any other options or steps involved, it didn't mean I was going to pursue them I just wanted to be informed.