I am against religious exemptions. I give all deeply held beliefs equal credibility. My belief system may be informed by organized religion, but it is not defined by organized religion. And I do not believe an employer is capable of determining which beliefs are valid. Millions in this country believe the earth is 5,000 years old, and that Eve came from one of Adam's ribs. That is as scientifically grounded as Q-annon's BS. Or the belief in Ivermectin. Or my beliefs. Beliefs, in my mind, are all equal, and unrelated to pandemic management. I like this approach: More Like This Post COVID-19: How Do We Lead Nurses in the New Normal? by EOC, MSN, RN Inability to Bill Prevents Pharmacists from Prescribing Paxlovid by Terry Ann Donner, BSN, RN Nightingale Nursing ... On its Deathbed by Sarina Day, ASN I Did Not Feel Like A Hero by Brooke Schmidt, BSN, RN Eating Disorder Rates Sky-Rocketed During the COVID-19 Pandemic by The Writing RN 4U
Soloist, LPN 72 Posts Sep 30, 2021 10 hours ago, hherrn said: I am against religious exemptions. I give all deeply held beliefs equal credibility. My belief system may be informed by organized religion, but it is not defined by organized religion. And I do not believe an employer is capable of determining which beliefs are valid. If an employer is not capable of determining which belief is valid, then you might as well just give a philosophical objection to the vaccine. After all, it seems like the religious objectors outside of a small handful like myself are religiously Republican for their resistance. As for the cell testing, thats a misleading claim of relatability. The majority of those medications predated the fetal cell lines. MMR is perfectly related though and anyone claiming to object to covid vaccines on grounds of fetal cell lines but approve of MMR... there is a serious consistency problem there.
Guest219794 2,453 Posts Sep 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, Soloist said: If an employer is not capable of determining which belief is valid, then you might as well just give a philosophical objection to the vaccine. Absolutely. I see no difference between the two. Whether the exemption results from misunderstanding the bible, or misunderstanding science is irrelevant to me. The result is the same. People have the absolute right to believe whatever they choose. Having something sanctioned by an organized religion doesn't make it any more or less valid. Some of the worst crimes in humanity were justified by religion. The fact is, some beliefs, religious or otherwise, are incompatible with certain jobs.
Guest219794 2,453 Posts Sep 30, 2021 Also- I understand some of the examples given are not entirely accurate, but the theme is. Pretty sure a whole bunch of these "religious" folks aren't looking at how their make up was made.
Soloist, LPN 72 Posts Sep 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, hherrn said: Also- I understand some of the examples given are not entirely accurate, but the theme is. Pretty sure a whole bunch of these "religious" folks aren't looking at how their make up was made. Well... none of my religious kin wear make up. I'll admit prior to covid I was not aware of the use of HEK-293 in medicine testing... I was aware of things like Epogen and Procrit but completely ignorant on other medications. I'm still hunting for a non-medical job option despite getting a religious objection because I personally feel its not prudent or safe nursing to refuse a vaccine and remain in nursing. Where I draw the line is on if it was tested for approval versus post testing. I would compare it to an analogy with buying a 2000 Ford pickup. The company used crash dummies to test the car, you bought the car, later the company decided to test your ford model by crashing it with people in it. It doesn't make your car wrong, but I wouldn't buy from them anymore. The model isn't perfect and has some holes and I understand most people would find my position untenable.
NurseTara3 5 Posts Specializes in Teaching Basic First Aide and CPR. Has 5 years experience. Sep 30, 2021 Love this post! Sums up the whole hypocrisy!
PoodleBreath 69 Posts Specializes in Hospice, LPN. Has 17 years experience. Sep 30, 2021 Additional drugs tested on fetal cell lines are ivermectin, remdesivir, and hydroxychlroquine. https://www.somerset-kentucky.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/there-are-no-aborted-fetal-cells-in-vaccines/article_14809887-84f7-58a4-bb4c-76bc29724d8a.html
Soloist, LPN 72 Posts Sep 30, 2021 1 hour ago, PoodleBreath said: Additional drugs tested on fetal cell lines are ivermectin, remdesivir, and hydroxychlroquine. https://www.somerset-kentucky.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/there-are-no-aborted-fetal-cells-in-vaccines/article_14809887-84f7-58a4-bb4c-76bc29724d8a.html While I agree all three of those have been tested, only one of them was tested during development and approval. Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are both very old medications that pre-date use of fetal cell testing. Under my pickup analogy only 1 of those medications would be unusable for myself. Not that I endorse either for treatment of Covid. I don't know and I'm not adequately trained to dispute research on their effectiveness or not.
JKL33 6,472 Posts Sep 30, 2021 I object to nearly all religious exemptions I have heard of and to the idea of calling these religious exemptions unless the religion or sect has a previously-published and long-standing, deeply held stance of which they are able to provide proof. I think Conway Regional's approach is good information for people to have as they review their purported beliefs, but feel it is a little short sighted for various reasons. I really don't understand why places don't acknowledge the belief and just state that the requested accommodation is beyond what is reasonable for the role, if the alternative is that they are going to grant an exemption.
Soloist, LPN 72 Posts Oct 1, 2021 25 minutes ago, JKL33 said: I object to nearly all religious exemptions I have heard of and to the idea of calling these religious exemptions unless the religion or sect has a previously-published and long-standing, deeply held stance of which they are able to provide proof. I think Conway Regional's approach is good information for people to have as they review their purported beliefs, but feel it is a little short sighted for various reasons. I really don't understand why places don't acknowledge the belief and just state that the requested accommodation is beyond what is reasonable for the role, if the alternative is that they are going to grant an exemption. I take issue with your first point. Many times a religious group has formed a position on something that prior would not have even been a consideration. For example, prior to the TV the Conservative Mennonites had no stance on the TV. The Amish prior to electricity had no stance on electricity. Again prior to abortion being a practice, the Christians had no specific statement on abortion. The basis of objection to the vaccines on the use of fetal cells does not agree with you or the majority of people, but religious groups have always suffered for their beliefs. Some of them I would question and find too far but I would find it lamentable if we have no tolerance for religious beliefs. That being said, I'm not here to debate you but Title 7 of the Federal code makes no stipulations of the conviction. It does however, have a stipulation of reasonable accommodations which one could argue should be in effect for medical preventing exemptions from vaccines.
toomuchbaloney 9,777 Posts Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 44 years experience. Oct 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 8:13 PM, Soloist said: Again prior to abortion being a practice, the Christians had no specific statement on abortion. Abortion predates Christianity.
Soloist, LPN 72 Posts Oct 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 8:56 PM, toomuchbaloney said: Abortion predates Christianity. kind of missing the point. I was thinking of modern practice and should have clarified that.
