I am a BSN student taking a nursing theory class at the moment. I was wondering what is everybody's opinion regarding expressing religious believes in nursing theories. Does it offend you to find the word "God" when reading about certain theories. Example : "Persons have mutual relationships with the world and God" (Quote from my theory book re works of Sister Callista Roy)
I am Catholic myself so I do not find such statements offensive...I am just wondering what others think on this topic
You know what--within your ridiculously offensive posts are some potentially helpful ideas. Maybe you should try being clear and patient rather than rude and random.
stanley tells it like it is, for sure.:redbeathe
it's too bad you're offended.
there's nothing disrespectful by stating that your religious truths are inevitably and still, opinion.
heck, i have a palpable relationship w/my God, yet many would think that it's just my opinion.
fine by me.
i stand by my truth, as you should yours.
but if you really listen to stanley, the guy makes a lot of sense...
well those religious leaders are making opinions... now when someone backs up a belief with fact, well then it won't be an opinion anymore.
you should probably talk less and read more--if you'd like email me and mail you a couple of books on epistemology.
your understanding of "opinions" and "facts" is uhmmm... undeveloped.
:) schizophrenics believe things are true that clearly are not. the thing about truth is that it doesn't need to be believed. it is apparent to everyone. if it isn't apparent it probably isn't truth.
what someone believes does not make it not an opinion.
then again i am openly disrespectful of religions. spirituality... not so much.
me changing my behavior to suit your belief has nothing to do with respect.
#1. the truth isn't apparent to everyone; hence, there are conversations like this where people disagree.
#2. i all realms of knowledge there are degrees of certainty and various justifications giving for a truth claim. i have never heard a person claim that for something to be true it must be "apparent to everyone."
#3. maybe your disrespect feeds the antagonism you feel between you and christians.
#4. all spirituality is embodied in beliefs and practices--that is the definition of religion. maybe you mean religion, if it is kept private is ok, but if it is public then it's not ok?
#5. i have no idea what you mean by this: "me changing my behavior to suit your belief has nothing to do with respect."
there's nothing disrespectful by stating that your religious truths are inevitably and still, opinion.
heck, i have a palpable relationship w/my God, yet many would think that it's just my opinion.
fine by me.
i stand by my truth, as you should yours.
but if you really listen to stanley, the guy makes a lot of sense...
most of the time.
leslie
Don't worry, I'm not offended, nor am I crying, or clutching a praying hands teddy bear :-)
Stanley's words in this forum about Christianity are nothing but rude, pseudo-intellectual, adolescent dribble... If he wants to take a big boy pill and have a real conversation I'm game. But, I see no reason to further subject things that matter to his childish banter...
If this were about his idea that all religious knowledge is mere opinion--what an empty, hopeless thought--then we'd have something worth talking about.
Besides religious leaders are part of the patients collaborative care. Wether you believe in God or not patient's have a right to access to a religious leader. Learning how these leaders are incorperated into the patient's care is part of the nurse's job. A nurse needs to be culturally competent and religion is a major part of many cultures.
Don't worry, I'm not offended, nor am I crying, or clutching a praying hands teddy bear :-)
Stanley's words in this forum about Christianity are nothing but rude, pseudo-intellectual, adolescent dribble... If he wants to take a big boy pill and have a real conversation I'm game. But, I see no reason to further subject things that matter to his childish banter...
If this were about his idea that all religious knowledge is mere opinion--what an empty, hopeless thought--then we'd have something worth talking about.
cheers for now
So the whole respect thing you talked about was bunk then?
Childish? Pseudo-intellectual? Adolescent?
You slay me. I respond with definitions and facts and you respond with insults. This is why you can't have an honest open discussion about religion. Most religious (not spiritual) people fall to these tactics. Look at the thread RE: James Dobson...
It isn't our job to go over religion with patients, only to be AWARE of their religion and work with that knowledge.
Besides, give me some credit. I am being very nice and open-minded. My normal self would out argue and insult you in multiple languages. I am learning restraint here. Then I would imply that I was more intelligent but I think I just did that. Didn't really intend too. Forgive me 7*77 -2 times...
If this were about his idea that all religious knowledge is mere opinion--what an empty, hopeless thought--then we'd have something worth talking about.
i'm sorry you feel that way.
but since religion is a set of beliefs, that would make it opinion, yes?
i happen to be tremendously spiritual...
and no, it is not synonymous w/religion.
when one is spiritual, their truth comes from within.
when one is religious, their truth comes from external sources.
being spiritual, it is the farthest thing from empty and hopeless, i promise you.
You should probably talk less and read more--if you'd like email me and mail you a couple of books on epistemology.
Your understanding of "opinions" and "facts" is uhmmm... undeveloped.
#1. The truth isn't apparent to everyone; hence, there are conversations like this where people disagree.
#2. I all realms of knowledge there are degrees of certainty and various justifications giving for a truth claim. I have never heard a person claim that for something to be true it must be "apparent to everyone."
#3. Maybe your disrespect feeds the antagonism you feel between you and Christians.
#4. All spirituality is embodied in beliefs and practices--that is the definition of religion. Maybe you mean religion, if it is kept private is ok, but if it is public then it's not ok?
#5. I have no idea what you mean by this: "Me changing my behavior to suit your belief has nothing to do with respect."
You make very good points here.
If "truth" were apparent to everyone . . . . no one would ever discuss or argue.
If "truth" were apparent to everyone . . . . no one would ever discuss or argue.
steph
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo :)
Maybe hindsight is 20/20 but when I have examined my life and the parts where I learned truths of the world that I previously did not know I realized something. I did know it. It was right there in my face. I just didn't recognize it.
I think truths are apparent and when we look back we realize they were. We hide and ignore truth. We color it with bias and ignorance and opinions. We don't like to admit it. It's still there smacking us in the face.
i feel your passion, and respect you for it. to go back a few posts, i don't need the gov't, the majority, or any other support system for my faith..but you seem a little shaky in yours. [the gentleman doth protest overmuch ] and yes, atheism is a faith, same as any other world view. you are obviously well educated and erudite, and know darn well one cannot prove a negative...so you have gone with what you can see and prove. fair enough, but inconclusive of what may or may not exist beyond this human life on earth. as you or methyene said elsewhere, pascal's wager.......
it does not, however, change the empirical and documented fact that humans make choices based on their beliefs, and this has influenced history, government, families, and healthcare..and continues to do so, per the original thread topic.
and just a personal clarification--i am a roman catholic--the falwells and robertsons of the world think that i am going to hell right next to you. as a rule, catholics don't "witness and recruit", and the church's official position is that we don't know who, if anyone, is in or going to hell.
i am sorry for whatever ways you have been injured or harrassed by christians. perhaps a little tolerance on your part as well would make you less of a target from the fringe elements. sending good thoughts your way..:redpinkhe
i feel your passion, and respect you for it. to go back a few posts, i don't need the gov't, the majority, or any other support system for my faith..but you seem a little shaky in yours. [the gentleman doth protest overmuch ] and yes, atheism is a faith, same as any other world view. you are obviously well educated and erudite, and know darn well one cannot prove a negative...so you have gone with what you can see and prove. fair enough, but inconclusive of what may or may not exist beyond this human life on earth. as you or methyene said elsewhere, pascal's wager.......
it does not, however, change the empirical and documented fact that humans make choices based on their beliefs, and this has influenced history, government, families, and healthcare..and continues to do so, per the original thread topic.
and just a personal clarification--i am a roman catholic--the falwells and robertsons of the world think that i am going to hell right next to you. as a rule, catholics don't "witness and recruit", and the church's official position is that we don't know who, if anyone, is in or going to hell.
i am sorry for whatever ways you have been injured or harrassed by christians. perhaps a little tolerance on your part as well would make you less of a target from the fringe elements. sending good thoughts your way..:redpinkhe
it was the christian brothers that beat me in catholic high school. :chuckle just kidding. i do agree that we need to be aware of religion and the patients religious preferences to properly care for them. this is a general awareness though. pointing out one leads to problems. i was agreeing with one of the posters that stated they kept it general. it should be general. any slant, whether it be christian, buddhist or pagan will be counterproductive.
i like the pastors/chaplains for this reason. most of the time they are blatantly neutral. they of course have been trained for this and nurses haven't. nurses should have no role in this function, other than being aware and tailoring their approach based on this awareness. nurses in general are not qualified to address religious needs anymore than a cna is qualified to assess a patient. being a member of does not make one qualified. if it did i could assess after 8 years of seeing how nurses do it. that's my main point.
as a side note. i really have no problems with christians per se. many of my friends are christian and the majority of americans are. that is why it would seem i pick on them. if this was saudi arabia i'd be needling the muslims. i have no more dislike for any particular religion. i also have never been any more harassed by christians or any other faith followers than i have harassed them. besides a true christian wouldn't harass anyone so anyone that does harass me is immediately identified as a non-christian and then the war proceeds. :)
steph
leslie :-D
11,191 Posts
stanley tells it like it is, for sure.:redbeathe
it's too bad you're offended.
there's nothing disrespectful by stating that your religious truths are inevitably and still, opinion.
heck, i have a palpable relationship w/my God, yet many would think that it's just my opinion.
fine by me.
i stand by my truth, as you should yours.
but if you really listen to stanley, the guy makes a lot of sense...
most of the time.
leslie