BSN vs. Associates

mirn · Jan 19, 2000

Well, since you asked... I personally feel that working experience is the best way to learn. My experience is that the BSN programs in this area offer less clinical time in their nursing programs. However, I learned more in my first year on the job than in all my years of school (I am an ADN nurse at present), and new BSN grads tell me the same. Your choice of degree depends on whether you have management-oriented goals, as BSN or higher degree nurses are more likely to get those positions. I would like to add that my current manager is an ADN nurse, and is the best I have ever had. We feel like she remembers where she came from, so to speak. She continues to wear "scrubs" to work, and when needed, she WORKS.

Another issue raised was wages vs. degree. At our hospital, BSN nurses are paid .25/hr more, but the hospital has clinical ladders which are competency and performance based, and come with a wage increase as well. This program is open to BSNs and ADNs. So it can end up being equal if you put in the extra work. I do plan to return to school in the fall, but am still not sure if I want to earn my BSN, or venture in another direction such as business or law. I love floor nursing and when I am no longer physically able to do it, I do not want to be a manager...hope this adds to the discussion!

justanurse · Jan 20, 2000

mirn said it very well. I agree, which degree you go for is a matter of personal choice and what you plan on doing in your career in the future. When I got my ADN I told myself I'd continue within 5 years and get my BSN. I learned that I love what I do, bedside nursing, and don't need to advance my schooling to do what I love. I still feel the same after 13 years. When I do go back to school, if ever, it will probably be for something entirely different than nursing. I've got another 35 years to go before retirement.

My most favorite head nurse was a diploma nurse.

smignoni · Jan 20, 2000

This issue is one of the great divides in nursing.The real issues is support of each other in practice.The BSN offer more options to the nurse who wants to go into management

home care,teaching etc.The facts from the previous replies is that neither program prepares you for the challenges you face on the job.They both teach you how to learn from those experiences.I have a BSN and it has opened doors for me that would have been closed.The key point in any program is the clinical rotations and instructors.One of the programs in our area offers an LPN then RN then a BSN degree step program.I like this concept as it allows people to enter the profession and get on or off the training program and gain job experience then go back for further training.We must support each other we need the help.Sammy

Darlene Jones · Jan 20, 2000

I have a BSN and have received alot of negativity from other Nurses when they find out. If I had to do all over again, I would not have spent the amount of time pursuing such a degree to only find myself with the same pay and respect that ADN nurses receive.

It took me 10 years to get this degree and if I had known what I know now, I would have spent the time in something a little more lucrative.

I do have a question for Smignoni? What types of opportunities do you know of for BSN Nurses in Homecare as you mentioned in your post? I would appreciate the info.

From what I have seen Nurse Managers go through, I don't think I will ever want to become one.

.............Thanks......Darlene

askater · Jan 20, 2000

Hi HMT--

Management is a tough position. I agree. ALL of my past managers looked at cost. But my favorite manager looked at cost but, also had a very positive personality. He worked hard for the unit.

Was the sentence, "Well now, so you are an excellent nurse." If it's addressed to me. Yes, I am an excellent nurse. I work as a "team member", I'm optimistic, I think of ideas how we can work as a unit for the best of patient. I consider cost. Yes.

Hmt thanks for your comments. I know I won't want any supervision position. In any field. Your right management is "no pleasure cruise." I wish you luck in your position. And I agree. All nursing and medical staff must work together with a positive attitude

Good luck!

And thanks for all the comments on bachelors/adn. It's been a nice discussion

hmt · Jan 21, 2000

Well now, so you are an excellent nurse? What defines excellence? Remember management is not in the position to win popularity contests and it's surely no pleasure cruise. There is major pressure from those "above" and to have difficult floor nurses with attitudes, makes their positions much more difficult. Most managers want to succeed, but are put in awkward positions. I do agree though that negativity is a minus., but ALL bosses must think about unit/pt. costs. I did DON and case manager positions with an ADN, and went to perdiem floor nursing with the BSN. We are just all so different about our ideas of professionalism and the degree's we hold. It's essentially the States and the companies that dictate who is the true professional. So what is excellence?..our degree, the opinion of ourself or is it really the positive pt. outcomes from the care we provide.

likeme4me · Jan 21, 2000

The difference? Choice of job markets!! Does anyone know where I can get a list of states that recognize ADN's?

maikranz · Jan 22, 2000

Hi, everyone!

As far as I know, all 50 states recognize ADN. It's funny..the hot issue used to be dipoma grads vs. BSN grads rather than things that are truly important to the survival of the profession. Colleagues,

this is a debate going on since the 60's.

We are graduates of nurse education programs, all of us, and if we use the RN after our names, it means we've passed the state board exam (1976) or NCLEX, regardless of whether or not one has a diploma (not likely any more--a shame), an ADN, or a BSN. Can we not focus our efforts and energy addressing such real issues as the increased use of UAPs in our acute care facilities, the declining enrollments in nursing programs because we cannot attract new students, our absence on healthcare planning boards and commissions, our image as portrayed in the media and a host of other things. I entered practice as a diploma prepared nurse and then went on for other degrees. That was a choice. It does not mean that my credentials are any better or more valid than anyone else's. I may have more mobility for some endeavors than others; I may have less. The point is we have got to SUPPORT each other and cease all this fighting among ourselves. It is not productive...we are >2 million strong. Can you imagine what we could do for ourselves and our patients if we used that strength.

shee1a · Jan 24, 2000

Hi all what a nice chat you are having. A nice change from others. Anyway for my two cents. I am a BSN grad. It was my intention when I went back to school, at 30 yrs old, to end up in management once I was out and had enough experience. I know with my degree I can do that now but desire to stay at floor nursing a little while to make sure I can relate to all the issues of the staff nurse before making the change.

What are some of the qualities that you have seen in a manger that has made him or her stand out as not just a good manager but a great one?

LPN2RN · Jan 24, 2000

There is a trend in my area to reward the BSN w/higer annual wages and increased upward mobility. I guess I feel: equal pay for equal work; performance and merit should determine your wages.

BSN required for upward positions is fine. But be sure to hire the person that best suits the job. Not the degree that looks the best. And, IF the person best for the job is an ADN or Diploma, then help them to become the BSN.

However, I also understand that those of you with the BSNs, put in the time and the $ for a BSN... Maybe that's where the increased upward mobility comes in. I really am not sure... Hmmm...

I do see a trend to increase the # of 4 and 2 year programs, and to decrease the # of 3 year programs. In regard to this matter, I am in favor of standardizing the educational process for nursing. Ultimately, all RNs should receive the same educational material, in the same format.

This is only my opinion.

Incidentally, I will go back for my BSN, that's the goal. But thought that I was better served by getting my ADN and gaining the experience. It is a personal, not a professional, choice (for me).

Babette777 · Jan 29, 2000

Originally posted by askater:
I keep reading the topic about Dying career. I keep reading seeing what WE CAN DO. And what's brought up time and time again is associate nurses putting down bachelors and vice a versa. I thought I'd open a thread...because I see it's a HOT topic.

I'm a BSN nurse. I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm an excellent nurse. I've learned far more after graduating than my 4 years in high school. And I'm sure that's true for BSN and ADN nurses.

I've had 3 different bosses. One had her associates degree. She was the worse boss ever. Not because she had an associates, but because she had a very negative personality. My other 2 bosses have there BSN. THe one boss was excellent. He supported our unit and wasn't just thinking about saving money. My current boss has a BSN. She doesn't support us, she thinks about saving every penny. I feel it's a lot to do about personality and not what degree each nurse had.

The ADN nurses that said BSN...are no better than ADN. Do you feel that BSN colleges should be closed and ALL nurses have associate degress.

Also do your hospital have better benefits for BSN. The hospitals I work at don't. I make the same as all RN's.

I hope we can have a nice discussion Thanks

BSN versus ADN... the neverending debate! My belief is that "the degree don't make the nurse...the experience, ability and compassion DO!" I have respect for all nurses that give excellent care to their patients... whatever their educationnal background. I also believe that our time would be better spent trying to think of ways to give our patients optimum care while making our work stimulating and enjoyable at te same time... I think the two go hand in hand! What do you think?