The thread in the nursing student forum about people who are always late got me thinking.
I am chronically early for everything. If I'm not 10 minutes early for an appointment, work, whatever, then I start to get anxiety. So I have a hard time relating to those who are temporally challenged. And I know that there are people who are ALWAYS late. I work with half a dozen providers, and one or two are like me (always there 15 minutes before start time), a couple get there right at start time, and there are 2 or 3 who are ALWAYS 10-20 minutes late for their first appointment of the session (and it drives me farking nuts, because the chronic late ones are my favorite providers and they ask me to go to lunch with them, and if I accept, then *I* will be late for my first appointment of the afternoon session, which is exactly what happened yesterday).
I know that sometimes it's just poor (or lack of) planning. But I've come to suspect that for some people, it's just part of their innate character, and that's what I want to try to understand better, so that I can better work with these people (and not show my intense annoyance). I really do think that sometimes, it's just beyond their control.
So for those of you who are temporally challenged, or love someone who is, help me understand what happens in their brains that make them this way, so I can be a more understanding coworker/supervisor.
I don't know that I can answer exactly how, but it seems to be. I know people who are accomplished who are chronically late. I also know accomplished people who are alcoholics, became addicted to drugs, etc., etc. I'm not trying to equate lateness to drug addition (obviously the latter is much much more serious that the former); however, both are examples of how someone can be accomplished, yet have a flaw that an outsider thinks they should be able to control, but the can't. I can't explain chronic lateness, just like I can't explain how some individuals easily become addicted.
I'm not interested in criticizing. I truly am trying to understand better.
I don't understand what you mean by "the providers appreciate not having to play phone tag with me." How is that associated with tardiness or lack thereof?
What is your nursing role? (I assume something in home health?) Have you ever worked inpatient or in a facility where you were expected to be there at a specific time, and if so, how did you manage that?
Yes, home health.
Re the providers, if I don't take their call inevitably tying me up for 5-10 min in follow up, then I have to interrupt them again. So I tell a patient I will be there between 2 and 3, I've already been interrupted several times over the course of the day, I arrive at 3:15 sometimes. I'm late because I told them between 2 and 3, if I told them sometime in the afternoon I am not perceived as late, but then they have no idea how to plan a meal or nap or such.
Sometimes I don't receive those interruptions and I've overplanned for them making me early, that's actually not usually appreciated.
I haven't worked shifts in years, but when I did I was on time. I have since worked a flex schedule.
Once worked with a nurse who was like this. Since she had other adults in the home to deal with her children in the morning, no one had any sympathy for her. She was known for this in the community. She applied at a different facility and I was approached by the person doing the hiring there, who brought up the constant tardiness. She said to me that the individual was late to her own nursing school graduation. Now that is embarrassing enough; but, she was not hired. Since she was trying to get two steps ahead of a layoff in a community with no opportunities, that could have hurt more than having a bad reputation.
I'm a punctual person. This was not, most likely, an innate trait, since I basically have an artistic temperament in every other way. Punctuality was drilled into me as a child by my mother, and strongly reinforced by a 7th grade teacher whom I loved, Mrs Zussman.
My mother drove me to school late when I missed the carpool in second grade. I arrived at around 10 AM. She made me walk into the office myself after seeing me through the gate. I was a very shy child, afraid of talking to strangers. I was mortified. I had to obtain a late slip, then find my class, they were in the library. It was terrifying. I made sure I got up in time from then on.
Then we moved across the street from a new school in 5th grade. It was an elementary that went to 8th grade. In seventh grade my first period teacher was Mrs Zussman. For some reason, even though I lived the closest to the school, I started being 5 minutes late every day. My mother would leave for her teaching job before me. I would make myself a Carnation Instant Breakfast and dilly-dally around. It's procrastination, that's what it is.
Mrs Zussman was amused at first. Then she decided to punish me. She made me wear strings woven through the fingers of my left hand for a whole day at school. It was the days when teachers had more leeway and parents didn't cry abuse. Mrs Zussman was actually very hip and mod, it was the late 60's and she wore knee high boots sometimes to school. She was from England and really brought English alive for me and was very encouraging. I'm not sure if she was collaborating with my Mom or not, but I want to thank both those women for teaching me to be prompt.
I tease my co-worker for being late and we can laugh about it. She tries to be on time and she has even shared that she was up on time and then started puttering in the house and one thing led to another and she is 15-20 min late. The funny thing is she lives less than a mile away from work, me 25 miles away.
Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
I know that sometimes it's just poor (or lack of) planning. But I've come to suspect that for some people, it's just part of their innate character, and that's what I want to try to understand better, so that I can better work with these people (and not show my intense annoyance). I really do think that sometimes, it's just beyond their control.
So for those of you who are temporally challenged, or love someone who is, help me understand what happens in their brains that make them this way, so I can be a more understanding coworker/supervisor.
"So for those of you who are temporally challenged..... help me understand what happens in their brains that make them this way" This line is pretty offensive on so many levels, but I will take a run at your question.
Have you considered that these folks do not think like you. There are many people who are not ruled by the clock. They are ruled more by the environment. It is not that making it somewhere on time is not important, it is....but it is NOT the most important thing. Often times the most important thing is achieving the job once there, not on the actual arrival.
And often that does not mean in that 9-5 time frame....again not ruled by the clock. I think you may find some folks who tend to run late have a different internal clock. They may be the folks who are still working or thinking at 2 or 3am.
Also they may want to get to the meeting when they are needed the most or will glean the most information.
I hate getting to meetings early only to stand around and listen to the re-hash. I want the meat of the meeting.
There are also times when a situation in front of them deserves completion before they move on. Is that poor planning? No, it is just again an unwillingness to be Ruled by a clock. I am okay saying I was late because I had something more pressing.
All of that said, do I get to work on time? Yes. Do I hate those 8am punch the clock type of meetings? Yes. The night person in me screams about those! But anytime post 10am and I am all over it.
Specializes in psych, addictions, hospice, education.
There's a cultural (and individual) personality trait of being present-oriented or future-oriented. Those who are present-oriented are concerned with what's happening now, rather than in the future. They don't tend to plan for the future, including planning how to be on time tomorrow. Those who are future-oriented are concerned more with what's happening in the future, and plan ahead so the future can be as it should be.
I think some of this is part of the difference between those who are late and those who are on time or early, when it's their general behavior...
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
"So for those of you who are temporally challenged..... help me understand what happens in their brains that make them this way" This line is pretty offensive on so many levels
Why is it offensive? I'm trying to understand. Perhaps I didn't word it correctly so you understand what I'm trying to ask, which is why I'm wondering why that statement is offensive to you.
Have you considered that these folks do not think like you. There are many people who are not ruled by the clock. They are ruled more by the environment. It is not that making it somewhere on time is not important, it is....but it is NOT the most important thing. Often times the most important thing is achieving the job once there, not on the actual arrival.
And often that does not mean in that 9-5 time frame....again not ruled by the clock. I think you may find some folks who tend to run late have a different internal clock. They may be the folks who are still working or thinking at 2 or 3am.
................
There are also times when a situation in front of them deserves completion before they move on. Is that poor planning? No, it is just again an unwillingness to be Ruled by a clock.
All of that said, do I get to work on time? Yes. Do I hate those 8am punch the clock type of meetings? Yes. The night person in me screams about those! But anytime post 10am and I am all over it. I am okay saying I was late because I had something more pressing."
These are the types of people who should NOT consider going into any type of career that involves shift work, time clocks or other personnel relying on a timely arrival of their relief. That, to me, is the crux of this matter. If the day shift nurse routinely arrives late, causing a delay in departure for the night shift, that is rude, unprofessional and not excused by "well, it's not in my personality to be timely."
"I am okay saying I was late because I had something more pressing."
Shilla is my sister (brother?) from another mother :-)
Punctuality certainly has its place and is essential in some situations but it's not in everything. If I could be 100% punctual and be everything else that I am, I would be a better person, but if I were to trade some aspects of my performance for better punctuality, that in itself would not make me better nurse.
But in my case I can avoid the whole issue by not pinning myself down to a small window, it's been something that I try to improve.
Have you considered that these folks do not think like you. There are many people who are not ruled by the clock. They are ruled more by the environment. It is not that making it somewhere on time is not important, it is....but it is NOT the most important thing. Often times the most important thing is achieving the job once there, not on the actual arrival.
And often that does not mean in that 9-5 time frame....again not ruled by the clock. I think you may find some folks who tend to run late have a different internal clock. They may be the folks who are still working or thinking at 2 or 3am.
................
There are also times when a situation in front of them deserves completion before they move on. Is that poor planning? No, it is just again an unwillingness to be Ruled by a clock.
All of that said, do I get to work on time? Yes. Do I hate those 8am punch the clock type of meetings? Yes. The night person in me screams about those! But anytime post 10am and I am all over it. I am okay saying I was late because I had something more pressing."
These are the types of people who should NOT consider going into any type of career that involves shift work, time clocks or other personnel relying on a timely arrival of their relief. That, to me, is the crux of this matter. If the day shift nurse routinely arrives late, causing a delay in departure for the night shift, that is rude, unprofessional and not excused by "well, it's not in my personality to be timely."
"I am okay saying I was late because I had something more pressing."
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Have you considered that these folks do not think like you. There are many people who are not ruled by the clock. They are ruled more by the environment.
I absolutely KNOW they do not think like me. I AM trying to learn how they DO think, which is the point of this thread.
It's okay to not be ruled by the clock....up to a point. For me personally, if I'm making social plans with someone who I know is temporally challenged, and we agree to meet at 4, I will expect them closer to 4:30 or 5, and plan accordingly. No skin off my nose.
HOWEVER.....when that person is a healthcare provider who is expected to see a patient every twenty minutes from 8:00 AM until 4:30 PM, and the first two patients are roomed and waiting for the provider, and the provider doesn't even show up in the building until 8:25, yeah, that's kind of a huge problem. Likewise, a nurse who is expected to be clocked in and ready to receive report at 0700, in order to relieve the off-going nurse who has been working for 12 1/2 hours and is dead tired and ready to go to bed, and the oncoming nurse doesn't clock in until 0720, that likewise is a pretty big problem.
psu_213, BSN, RN
3,878 Posts
I don't know that I can answer exactly how, but it seems to be. I know people who are accomplished who are chronically late. I also know accomplished people who are alcoholics, became addicted to drugs, etc., etc. I'm not trying to equate lateness to drug addition (obviously the latter is much much more serious that the former); however, both are examples of how someone can be accomplished, yet have a flaw that an outsider thinks they should be able to control, but the can't. I can't explain chronic lateness, just like I can't explain how some individuals easily become addicted.