Redundant Coursework

honeykrown, MSN, NP · Jan 29, 2012

Is it at the same program or a different school and are you sure its not the same professor. I am yet to start graduate but i would be offended if this happened to me also

CCRNDiva, BSN, RN · Jan 29, 2012

It is a different school. I'm in a graduate program now but the class has the same content and assignment that was covered in my RN-BSN program.

UVA Grad Nursing · Jan 31, 2012

You will find writing EBP papers a key part of graduate education in any health field. You will find literature reviews in EVERY graduate field -- including the humanities and social sciences. This is what scholarship is built upon. You need to assess what has been done already so that you can effectively build upon it.

Yes, you did a lit review once in your BSN program. You know the basic tools to build upon as you conduct more robust literature reviews and research papers as you go forward with your professional nursing life.

CCRNDiva, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2012

I understand your point but I don't think you are getting mine. I don't have a problem with EBP papers or lit reviews as I fully understand their purpose. The issue I have is that I am spending $$ to review the same material I was taught last year. We didn't do a lit review "once", we were required to complete lit reviews throughout the semester. We are learning about the various kinds of studies, applying for IRB approval, how to put a study together and how to use it to advance nursing practice. This is the same content we covered in my previous program. Like I said, I don't know if my previous instructor (who held a Phd) was teaching on a graduate level or not. They were really big on preparing us for graduate study.

allnurses Guide · Feb 7, 2012

I did patho in my undergrad nursing degree but I'm glad we repeated it in my graduate degree... this is what you go to grad school for, so you can build on and extend what you already know. Sometimes it's repetition of concepts you already have an understanding of and just expanding on it. Sometimes it's taught at a different level. Until you do it, you won't know. If it's not the right school/program for you, get out of it. I can tell you we did multiple classes on research, stats and EBP throughout my grad degree and a lot of it felt repetitive, but when it came to my masters comp exam, I knew that research section like the back of my hand.

Zee449 · Mar 18, 2014

I saw this one and died laughing out LOUD. It's an old post but still very relevant. It all appears to go back to State BON. The Powers that be (ACCN, and the Nurse Instructors organization), put out that lovely blueprints for the BSN-MSN and now the DNP roll describing the redundancy of what is taught in nursing school. It knows it but was ineffective in changing it. I know our state has a mapp that instructor have to use. The assignments matches the criteria and the school has to have proof that you have that skill.

I started my advanced practice journey 3 years ago and can guarantee nothing has changed. I started in nursing at age 17 as an LVN and have continued that for plus 20 years.... This isn't my first rodeo, nor my first grad school. Nursing school is based on recipes for proof, the proof is board passing rates. That pays the bills and keeps the BON and accediting bodys from charging more for program review visits (sort of like JACHO).

A curriculum usually uses the state boards base knowledge list (criteria) that has to be taught for them to get accreditation. The syllabi are "mapped" to these criteria and the assignments are the proof for the school. It is like a recipe to turn out nurses. Nursing is like a good-ol-boy society and there are highly political veins. No one bucks the system. No one questions it and this post is a good example. If you question it, you are not one of us. Shhhhhhh.......

I did ask these question on my NP entrance interviews. I was told basically the same thing as the replys. "That is just how it is", learning is a process and this process is proven to get quality nurses" ad-infinitum. I started this journey with 96 hours of graduate work in another field. This journey and it's rigid definition of what a EBP profession should be,is heart breaking. We as nurses are so much smarter than THAT. Every single preceptor I have had has told me the exact same thing: "Keep your head down, do the silly busy work and be done. That is just how it is so just think of it like an initiation and earn your title and then you can forget all of this. It is not real, relevant and not worth the trouble of questioning it." Unfortunately or fortunately I am NOT a sheeple. I figured out that the bare bones redundancy holds me back. I ask HARD questions, I question everything, I read up-to date literature constantly. I have a folder on my desktop for ideas, projects, answers to hard questions almost exclusively from from physicians and PA organizations. I use everything at my disposal to LEARN. (Oh..The British Nursing Society is represented for my profession in my folder). Yes it is redundant, yes I am paying an incredible amount for ...nothing really...but the right to sit for boards. Have I seen others in my class actually learn and not become disgruntled and suicidal from what passes as EPB based instruction theory and Benners Novice to expert ideology. NO.

Will it finally change in my lifetime, no.

Will I instruct or precept someone or several someone's in the future that WILL change it? I certainly hope so with all my heart. We are redefining healthcare, nursing, medicine everything. It is an exciting and confusing time. 80% of nurses are AMAZING. I love nursing, advanced practice nurses are on the front lines proving themselves again all odds. I will not give up on it. What the profession is becoming is still to come... a tiny light...

So I guess my advice is simple. Keep in simple.Stay in a solution oriented mentality. Use the discrepancies, filed away for when you need them. Treasure your minds ability to say "wait a minute, there is something wrong here", it is a gift. Keep a list of the redundancy and ideas on how to improve it. Find the organizations and people in your area that have power. Network. The revolution will come, it is coming. Entrance exams and paid residencies will probably be the only thing that stops the mapping process we now have. It is not the instructors or the schools, but how the education system is structured. Learn to see their point of view so you can have good solid intelligent discussion that is EPB based (cringe) and one day be a part of THAT improvement plan.

And in conclusion (HA), feel compassion and show compassion for those who are "sheeple stuck". Those that have no choice but to teach redundant concepts...They have to work and they are just doing the job they are being paid to do, with as much pride as they can muster."To understand than to be understood" (no, no really,....I will not reference this!)

So I have probably ticked off my quota for the day (and so early!) Push on through and know that just because we don't know the plan, doesn't mean there isn't one!

futureeastcoastNP · Mar 18, 2014

One of my biggest fears for NP school is that the pharmacology and pathophysiology courses will be no more in depth than my undergrad BSN pathophysiology and pharmacology. I certainly hope that is not the case, but until someone steps in and raises the standards for what should be taught in NP programs I fear it will be a common occurrence for many students.

meeep, BSN, RN · Mar 18, 2014

One of my biggest fears for NP school is that the pharmacology and pathophysiology courses will be no more in depth than my undergrad BSN pathophysiology and pharmacology. I certainly hope that is not the case but until someone steps in and raises the standards for what should be taught in NP programs I fear it will be a common occurrence for many students.[/quote'] I have seen a similar sentiment from you numerous times. Why don't you just go to medical school since you are overly concerned with the lack of advanced sciences in NP curricula? Seems like an easy fix as opposed to constantly complaining about it on the internet.

zmansc, ASN, RN · Mar 18, 2014

As I sit here, between terms, reviewing my genetics textbook, I can assure you your education is your responsibility. Pick the right program and hopefully they will help you more than picking a different program would have, however no program is perfect and none will get you all the way there. You have to be constantly assessing what they are teaching and what they are not. You have to augment their material with your own, your own research, your own training of yourself, until you are comfortable with what they teach you.

I will say that there is overlap in courses that were taught at the undergraduate level and similar courses taught at the graduate level in my program. The overlap is there to catch up some who either didn't get that material in their undergraduate program or have forgotten it, but the majority of the material was further detailed and/or application of that base material at a higher level. I think the more you applied yourself during both your undergrad education and your RN career, the more you already knew when it came time to do your physical assessment course, or your patho course. This just makes sense, doesn't it? I mean if you are around practitioners doing physical assessments, you observe these, maybe even help them, then talk to them about whatever it is that is different from how you did your physical assessment, and finally as you become more proficient you even do those exams and report the findings to the provider, well you have been teaching yourself that course. Same goes with patho, if you are constantly taking interesting cases home and researching them, or asking the provider, "what was it that made you suspect xxx in this pt where we had the same presentation yesterday and you suspected yyy?" My providers LOVE those questions, I have learned so much patho from them prior to entering school that I was able to concentrate on other areas that we don't often see when I was in the class.

I will agree that some (possibly significant) changes could and should be made to how nursing education is managed, and I think there is a "it was good enough for me, so it should be good enough for you" attitude that is prevalent and not helpful. However, I do think that as with any educational program, no matter how good it is, you will only get out of it what you put into it.

RobNRN · Mar 18, 2014

I just started my NP program at a brick and mortar school with mostly online courses and found the Advanced Pathophysiology course far harder than my undergrad course. Many of the concepts were the same but the level of understanding required was not. Also, the volume of required reading in Advanced Patho is daunting.

On a sidenote Kathryn McCance has to be a genius.

TashaLPN2006RN2012, ASN, RN · Mar 21, 2014

My Health promotion class and my nursing research course for my FNP, seem very similar to what I took last year in my BSN program, however, I can tell already that it's expanding, and slightly more tuned to how it affects NP's versus just nurses...my Advanced Patho..well yeah just as similar as regular Patho...but again, going slightly more in depth...