Hello everyone I have a question here which i am concerned about:
I recently graduated from Nursing, RPN. I landed a job last week which is amazing and am very excited to start. But im curious about this:
this is a walkin clinic/ doctors office. during the interview the Doctor said that this is a part-time job and that he can pay me "under the table" for $17 an hour or $20 an hour with the taxes deducted...
Has anyone been in this situation?
I want to keep this job until i find a steady Full-time job with better pay.
Please share your thoughts, and experiences. I am new in this field and have a lot to learn...
I don't know how it is in Canada, but I have worked "under the table" in the US. It seems nice, because you end up making a lot more cash that you actually get to keep. The point isn't to pay "self-employment" taxes, the point is for nobody to pay taxes, at all...
Anyway, what I didn't realize is that I was not getting social security credits for the years (yes, years) that I worked this way. I also had no legitimate, verifiable income. I was too young and naive to understand the motivation of the employers who were offering me such a great deal. They weren't necessarily "evil" people, but they weren't doing me any favors, either.
This was years ago, before I was a nurse, by the way. I would be super-worried to accept any sort of nursing position where anything illegal was going on.
Specializes in Medical /Neuro, Oncology, LTC, Home Care.
You've gotten some very sound advice here. If you choose to work for this physician, make sure YOU CARRY YOUR OWN MALPRACTICE INSURANCE because I guarantee you will need it!!!!
Thank you for your advice.
I have e-mailed him, i stressed my concerns. If he does not want to do this "above the table" then im not going to bother working there. im not going to put my license on the line.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I don't see how the "under the table" is automatically a tax cheater. Not sure about Canada but it's possible for employees to pay their own taxes in certain circumstances in the US. I would prefer to have them take out taxes though, as paying quarterly etc you have to be very disciplined about budgeting.
I am guessing that you already have malpractice insurance since it is a requirement of College of Nurses of Ontario. If you are not all ready a member of RPNAO, consider joining because you will benefit from networking with experienced RPNs. If you want to gain insight into some of the issues for nurses working in a doctor's office, you can read to read through the discussions in allnurses ambulatory care nurses section https://allnurses.com/ambulatory-care-nursing/
I don't see how the "under the table" is automatically a tax cheater. Not sure about Canada but it's possible for employees to pay their own taxes in certain circumstances in the US. I would prefer to have them take out taxes though, as paying quarterly etc you have to be very disciplined about budgeting.
i think the employer has to give you/employee, a 1099 form for that.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Im thinking that when i start tomorrow that i will have a talk with him and that i dont feel comfortable doing this "under the table" thing and would rather be paid 20/hr...
I hope it goes well... but when he was telling me this i got strange vibe that i need to be careful around him.
He wants to train me to do pap test, vaccinations, Iv's and such... i read into the CNO and these procedures are safe to perform if i have the right medical order or directive in place, knowledge, skill and judgment to do so, including the ability and resources to manage outcomes.
I hope tomorrow goes well and that he agrees.
Didn't you start another thread about this only it was about the Pap test issue? This job sounds very shady. I wouldn't want a nurse (are you an LPN/RN) doing my Pap! That could be a life or death test you're performing. Who is going to do the pelvic exam? You?
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but there's more to a gyn exam there "just a Pap." And if you don't get the sample right, you could be sentencing the woman to death. Think about how much you want the responsibility of determining a cancer dx. on your shoulders.
i think the employer has to give you/employee, a 1099 form for that.
and from that form, you pay your taxes...
i think.:)
leslie
actually in the us the irs has rules about this, an employer cannot just declare you a contract worker and issue you a 1099. they can get in trouble if they misclassify you...
I have e-mailed him, i stressed my concerns. If he does not want to do this "above the table" then im not going to bother working there. im not going to put my license on the line.
At this point, knowing what you know, an agreement via email to pay you above or below the table is pretty much beside the point. The point being: if he is willing to cheat in one area, what other areas is he going to take you that will put your license at risk?
Has it occurred to you to wonder why he's hired a brand new nurse when he wants all these procedures performed? It is most likely because a more experienced nurse wouldn't come near his practice. There are way too many red flags and I know that you realize it. That's why you came here - because your gut was telling you something's wrong.
it's possible to pay your own taxes, ssi, etc. but it really isn't worth it because if you make a mistake, the penalties are way too high. i don't know but i suspect the canadian government would be equally unforgiving if you forget something or pay the wrong amount.
Specializes in Medical /Neuro, Oncology, LTC, Home Care.
Didn't you start another thread about this only it was about the Pap test issue? This job sounds very shady. I wouldn't want a nurse (are you an LPN/RN) doing my Pap! That could be a life or death test you're performing. Who is going to do the pelvic exam? You?
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but there's more to a gyn exam there "just a Pap." And if you don't get the sample right, you could be sentencing the woman to death. Think about how much you want the responsibility of determining a cancer dx. on your shoulders.
I understand where you are coming form but i would not perform Anything that I feel unsure of or do not believe I hold enough Knowledge to do so..
I care very much about each individual. and I do believe that i can accumulate this knowledge, skill and judgment with time to do so, that said, Yes i did start that thread.
anyways, i e-mailed the guy told him how i felt and his response basically was that he thinks there was a misunderstanding or a miscommunication and that he has decided that he does not want to hire a nurse at the time....
Specializes in Medical /Neuro, Oncology, LTC, Home Care.
Natalia
I am guessing that you already have malpractice insurance since it is a requirement of College of Nurses of Ontario. If you are not all ready a member of RPNAO, consider joining because you will benefit from networking with experienced RPNs. If you want to gain insight into some of the issues for nurses working in a doctor's office, you can read to read through the discussions in allnurses ambulatory care nurses section https://allnurses.com/ambulatory-care-nursing/
Specializes in Medical /Neuro, Oncology, LTC, Home Care.
At this point, knowing what you know, an agreement via email to pay you above or below the table is pretty much beside the point. The point being: if he is willing to cheat in one area, what other areas is he going to take you that will put your license at risk?
Has it occurred to you to wonder why he's hired a brand new nurse when he wants all these procedures performed? It is most likely because a more experienced nurse wouldn't come near his practice. There are way too many red flags and I know that you realize it. That's why you came here - because your gut was telling you something's wrong.
This is one bullet that I hope you will dodge.
Thanks Roser13. yeah i didnt have a too good feeling... i definitely read up on CNO and what is allowed, and so far everything he was asking me was acceptable besides the "under the table"... but i knew that i would have to be very cautious around this man with what he would ask me to do. thats why i was just planning to stay until i get a more steady job.. since im a "fresh" grad..
Orange Tree
728 Posts
I don't know how it is in Canada, but I have worked "under the table" in the US. It seems nice, because you end up making a lot more cash that you actually get to keep. The point isn't to pay "self-employment" taxes, the point is for nobody to pay taxes, at all...
Anyway, what I didn't realize is that I was not getting social security credits for the years (yes, years) that I worked this way. I also had no legitimate, verifiable income. I was too young and naive to understand the motivation of the employers who were offering me such a great deal. They weren't necessarily "evil" people, but they weren't doing me any favors, either.
This was years ago, before I was a nurse, by the way. I would be super-worried to accept any sort of nursing position where anything illegal was going on.