"Socialized medicine"

LPNer · Mar 15, 2005

The only people who would get free medical care are the ones who can get it now, except they would get more of it!

Those of us who work and pay insurance premiums, co--pays, etc will not get anything more. We will, however, very likely end up in line behind those who do not work or do not opt to buy the insurance their employer offers.

I, among others have no interest in joining the ranks of those mentioned above. I get better health care, in a timely fashion and pay dearly for it. I dont' want to add additional taxes to pay for socialized medicine so those types mentioned above can cut into MY benefits. I work hard, long hours to provide for my family. I deserve decent medical benefits and if someone else doesn't, well, they simply don't deserve.

By the way, I am one of those republicans who has no bleeding heart, so save the insults and argument, I am simply stating my opinion where I was asked. I will not argue with liberal minded individuals. (Yea, I've read a lot of the threads here.)

Fuzzy · Mar 15, 2005

I have been the owner of a bladder full of gall stones for nearly ten years. I have these little painful critters because I'm uninsured and I cannot find a hospital that will work with me on payments. I don't know about you but I cannot pay the price of a new inexpensive car in a year. I figure that this surgery, providing it's laproscopic, is going to cost about $10,000+. The hospitals in this area will send a person to a collection agency after 3 to 12 months. It doesn't matter if payments are made or not. The unpaid balance goes to collection.

I'm very willing to pay the bill but the medical people have to be willing to work with me. I would like to buy a house someday so a good credit rating is important to me. I know that my office works all the time with people who cannot pay at the time of service. We have some debts that have been on the books for two years and this is for vet. medical services. We are willing to work with people I wish that the human side would work with me. There are times that I would like to take the little suckers out myself. If I were a dog my boss would take them out and my owner wouldn't have to pay a bunch for them. The surgery would only cost $568.43 at work.

I make too much money for Medicaid and since I live in a family of one, I'm not eligable for any aid. I do get some aid for the expensive medications that I take for epilepsy and bipolar disorder. It isn't much because I'm right on the edge of making too much money in order to qualify for aid. Somedays I'd like to just quit my job, quit my drugs, and go on disability. However I don't think that I would do well without working as it helps keep me focused.

Fuzzy

smk1, LPN · Mar 15, 2005

The only people who would get free medical care are the ones who can get it now, except they would get more of it!
Those of us who work and pay insurance premiums, co--pays, etc will not get anything more. We will, however, very likely end up in line behind those who do not work or do not opt to buy the insurance their employer offers.
I, among others have no interest in joining the ranks of those mentioned above. I get better health care, in a timely fashion and pay dearly for it. I dont' want to add additional taxes to pay for socialized medicine so those types mentioned above can cut into MY benefits. I work hard, long hours to provide for my family. I deserve decent medical benefits and if someone else doesn't, well, they simply don't deserve.
By the way, I am one of those republicans who has no bleeding heart, so save the insults and argument, I am simply stating my opinion where I was asked. I will not argue with liberal minded individuals. (Yea, I've read a lot of the threads here.)

ok but you are already paying for it now when "those individuals" show up at the ER with a simple case of strep or bronchitis, and can't pay the bill. An ER visit like this can run in the range of 500-800 dollars, when it should be a simple quick office visit or lab test. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't be fooled. We are all paying into programs like medicare and state health plans already through our tax dollars, and we are paying higher insurance premiums and hospital bills to counteract the bills of those who either don't have insurance or can't pay their insane hosiptal bill when an emergency happens. Something like a BASIC health plan for all could help reduce the money spent on inappropriate ER visits in state hospitals which are funded by public dollars. I do agree that private insurance above and beyond the basic plan should be an option for those who wish to pay for it, and have the means to do so. I for one am no bleeding heart, but i recognize the fact that unexpected things happen in life. You may work hard to provide for your family today, but what if you are struck by a permanent disability, or one of your children is? Not everyone who is uninsured, is so because they refuse to work hard. What if the unexpected happens to you tomorrow? what if you are no longer able to find work as an LPN due to an injury? What options do you immediately have? How are you going to keep your insurance without a job or at least without a job with the kind of pay and benefits that you are used to? Sure you can go back to school so that you can find a "desk" job or something that will work with your ailment, but that takes time (and lots of money). What will you do if you get sick during the time you are uninsured? I hope you don't feel i am picking on you, but I just wanted to point out that not all "those individuals" who aren't insured are people who choose not to work. I realize that you didn't explicitly say this, but your post seemed to imply it and I had to respond.

tridil2000, MSN, RN · Mar 15, 2005

Perhaps a more appropriate term is the widely used apolitical "Universal Healthcare", which implies all individuals, regardless of social class or finances, are entitled to the exact same high standards of medical services via a public health insurance scheme.

As far as I am aware, The US of A is the only western industrialized nation that doesn't have Universal healthcare, but please don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong.

oh, we have it already. this is what it's called...

charity care.

and we are all paying for it already.

the politicians dare not tell you that though.

allnurses Guide · Mar 15, 2005

I work in a ER so I'm familiar with the type of patients who should be seen in a doctor's office instead of the ER but .. .

I took my daughter to an ER on Friday after she was hit in the face with a hard thrown softball and broke her nose. It was funny, as she sat next to me holding gauze to her nose which was still bleeding, she said "Mom, why are these people here and not at the doctors?" You see most of the people looked fine, walked out to smoke, ate sandwiches, drank sodas, watched tv, read newspapers, talked on cell phones, laughed it up with their friends, etc. There was one guy with a broken wrist and an older man with a laceration. We all waited 3 hours plus because ambulance after ambulance came in . . . they called in some on-call ER docs and PA's . . we saw a PA.

She just didn't understand why the people who were there for minor things couldn't get in to see their doc. :rolleyes:

And, such fun to explain the realities of medicine to a 15 year old. :)

steph

gwenith, BSN, RN · Mar 15, 2005

Don't get me wrong we get lots of "what are you wasting our time for" patients in our Emergency rooms too. That is because GP's are not neccessarily free. The Goverment pays X amount per visit - some GP (precious few) "bulk bill" so that the amount you pay is 0. Mostly this is done for pensioners. Usually though most have a choice between going to the doctor and paying SOMETHING (between $5 and $30 depending) or going to the Emergency department and paying nothing. We actually charge for scripts filled through hospital pharmacies (inpatient discharges are free)- $5 per script. This has slowed down a lot who were coming for "free scripts". Oh we still get those who grizzle that $5 is "too much" until we point out that if we have to send a bill it is extra - Amazing how quickly they find the cash.

Bottom line - if people get something completely for nothing then there will be abusers of the system. I do believe that everyone coming to ED should pay a minimum amount - even if it is only $5 dollars - just to weed out the "got nothing better to do tonight" crowd but then that would ALSO stop the indigenent who often have a real need but would NOT seek aid if there was ANY charge attached.

begalli · Mar 15, 2005

We will, however, very likely end up in line behind those who do not work or do not opt to buy the insurance their employer offers.
I, among others have no interest in joining the ranks of those mentioned above. I get better health care, in a timely fashion and pay dearly for it.

Good for you LPNer. :yawn:

If nobody else noticed, the OP of this thread is nowhere around. The reason this thread was started was for the sole reason of evoking the emotional responses such as LPNers. What's the point?

dagmar · Mar 15, 2005

I am interested in your opinions about introducing a national healthcare system in the United States. What do you think about introducing free basic packet of healthcare services (e.g. emergency services and annual medical, eye, dental exams)? Do you know anything about national healthcare systems existing in other countries such as Sweden and Germany?
I would also be happy to get some information on this issue from abroad. Grushenka

hi,

I'm living in Germany and I am a German Nurse,as well as a victim of the so- called socialized medicine. It is not really for free, especially not for the working class. Every worker pays one half and the employer pays the other half. In my case it totals up to about $500 a month. If your annual salary is exceptional high you don't have to pay into a state run health insurance company, but rather pay into a private company at a lower rate and an excellent service, whereas the middle- or working class have to pay 10 Euro ($12)every quarterly visit to the GP's office. The same procedure occurs when I vist the dentist. The medication isn't free either. The prescription costs money, as well as the drugs to a certain extent. For a hospital stay you pay something like $16 a day for fourteen days,then its free. The people on welfare usedto get everything free, but are now charged the quarterly entry fee to the doc's office. Most people are really unhappy with the system, because it has been abused in the past and is being abused presently. The bosses of these health insurance companies just gave themselves a big fat raise,but didn't lower the monthly fee for us, although it was promised by our secretary of health.

I hope this was helpful.

Dagmar

mattsmom81 · Mar 18, 2005

Dagmar, your system sounds quite a bit like our current system here in the US, except like someone said earlier..the administrators are beaurocrats vs insurance companies.

tridil2000, MSN, RN · Mar 18, 2005

Dagmar, your system sounds quite a bit like our current system here in the US, except like someone said earlier..the administrators are beaurocrats vs insurance companies.

yep.

we already have it, we just don't call it that.

(tridil, who pays $460 a month for family coverage.... plus medicare, medicaid and taxes for charity care for the uninsured.)

talaxandra · Mar 18, 2005

The only people who would get free medical care are the ones who can get it now, except they would get more of it!
Those of us who work and pay insurance premiums, co--pays, etc will not get anything more.

A few years ago the Liberal government changed the Australian health care landscape, by introducing a theoretical cap on fees for members who joined before age 30, reducing bulk billing payments to GPs, and adding a supplemental Medicare levy. Medicare is the universal health care organisation, which is funded as a separate, income-based tax.

I don't pay for private health insurance, as I object to compulsory private health insurance on principle. Because I earn over $50,000 p.a., as a consequence I pay an extra $500/year on top of the Medicare levy - about the same as a low-coverage level of insurance.

When I needed elective oral surgery eighteen months ago I went private, and paid about $5000 for a same-day procedure (including anaesthesia, but not including discharge antibiotics).

My old GP bulk billed visits and also investigations; when I went in to have a suture removed and get my results from a suspicious spot removal (and I was sure it was malignant) he gave me a hard copy of my - benign - results, removed the suture, and said "That only took a second - I don't think we need to bother billing the government for that." Lovely man :)

My patients have elective admissions for video/EEG monitoring, elective lignocaine infusions for rebound migraine therapy, plasmapheresis, and renal transplants, among other things, without paying a cent. If they need rehab that's provided, too.

LPNer · Mar 19, 2005

I am not at all smart on the issue, I readily admit. I have nothing but questions myself:
Like IF we justify spending the bucks to build bigger, better weapons systems, enough to destroy the world- 2000 times over......
And IF we can spend big bucks on charity overseas, foreign worker recruitment, etc.....
And IF we can afford mass bail-outs of failing corporations in the form of "corporate welfare"........
IF we can continue to cover illegal and undocumented immigrant/indigent care......
IF we can spend millions to celebrate the inauguration of a President (not just Bush)......
then why can't we insure the WORKING POOR?????!!!!!!! You know, the poor average sucker who DOES hold a low-paying, unbenefitted job? The ones we are seeing increase in numbers EVERY year that passes as companies just cut these benefits out from under them?????? The one whose working backs on which building a great nation's progress rests????
Anyone????
As I said, I am not too damn smart after all. I just have that BURNING "why" question that I can't seem to get any answers to.

I agree with so much of what you are saying, but as far as insuring the working poor, we already do. Working poor can get Medicaide (and food stamps).

My son, his girlfriend and 2 kids are on it. And ya know what? They have very good care, no out of pocket expenses not even an insurance premium.

I on the other hand, I work and pay my insurance premiums (as well as buy groceries), I also have co-pay on Dr visits, meds, tests, etc.

Given what I pay for health care and groceries : what they don't pay, their disposable income is higher than mine! and I make 30,000 $ more a year than they do!

Where is the sense in all that? No matter how you look at it, insurance premiums, co-oays, etc or taxes. The "theys" of this country will still be getting better care than those of us who pay for it.