"Socialized medicine"

begalli · Mar 12, 2005

This thread is pretty good timing actually as Cover the Uninsured Week 2005 quickly approaches ( May 1-8).

This is a link to the variety of legislation out there today:

http://covertheuninsuredweek.org/legislation/compare.php?LegislationID=10

For more info, check out the Covering the Uninsured website.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Mar 12, 2005

Australia has "socialised" medicine but we don't think of it that way - it is a free health care system. I think actually it is one that would/might suit America as it is a two tier system. You have free state hospitals while GP visits are subsidized by the Federal goverment (as is pharmaceuticals) but you can also have your own private health insurance cover and go to a private hospital and not be subject to waiting lists that the public inevitably has.

begalli · Mar 12, 2005

I think that for any type of national/socialized/universal healthcare plan to work in the US it has to be uniquely presented as something by the US and for only the US.

Using other country's plans as models, as good as they may be, will not and does not go over well with many of the people of the US. I say that not to offend by any means or that I agree with it, but the US is the US and does things the US way. One problem lies in people seeing all the perceived "bad" within these other ways of doing things and can't see that it could be done differently, uniquely for us, and work, imo.

Respectfully, this is and always will be a hotly and deeply debated topic. Especially in regard to the often misunderstood or perceived individual astronomical costs of such plans or the notion that some will end up paying more than others. There are very strong and determined opinions on both sides.

I wonder if the OP is related to The Veridican?

ArwenEvenstar · Mar 12, 2005

....but you can also have your own private health insurance cover and go to a private hospital and not be subject to waiting lists that the public inevitably has.

I am NO expert on this issue. But I know that some Americans tend to think of socialized medicine as this practically perfect system. "Everyone gets free health care! We need that here!" But as mentioned in the above post from Australia, in socialized systems you can often have long waiting lists! And only those who can afford to pay privately or have a private health insurance policy can get immediate/prompt care. Does this seem fair? The wealthier get better care than the poor. Hey...this sounds similar to the complaints about our US system of private health care! See...there is no perfect system! Socialized medicine and privatized medicine both have problems.

I used to live near the Canadian border and we sometimes had Canadians come to our US hospitals to pay privately for care because they were on a several year long waiting list for the procedure in Canada.

And Americans seem to complain a lot about taxes... But do you know how high the tax rates are in these "cradle to grave" countries?? Most Americans would probably flip their lids. Socialized health care isn't free...they pay for it through high tax rates.

I personally prefer out US private system.

Anyhow...I better stop writing because this topic can easily head off into political issues....

Kyriaka · Mar 13, 2005

I think we have to be careful about definitions. Nothing is free. Nothing. Someone always pays.

I mainly deal (at this time) with Lyme disease patients. Yes, Canadian patients can get antibiotics "free". However, they are limited to very old antibiotics that are not nearly as effective. Many come to the US to try Zithromax or an experimental drug.

I have also heard stories of patients being moved up on Canadian surgery lists by paying under the table in US dollars (cash).

begalli · Mar 13, 2005

So OP, what do you think so far?

Or was this thread a hit and run?

Nesher, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2005

Remember Hilary R. Clinton during Bill's first term???

Fiona59 · Mar 13, 2005

Hey, I had Zithromax last year on prescription(that is one nasty drug), cost me $60 cdn (well after submitting my claim it probably cost around $28) for the course. I've never had "free" antibiotics anywhere I lived in Canada. Provincial healthcare payments in the provinces I live in and "extended" benefits through employers (they pick the extra charge for private rooms in hospitals, cover 80% of our meds) But I've never had free anything.

What I have seen is Americans crossing the border to buy drugs here at cheaper prices and the seniors swamp our clinics for flu shots...

I'd love to know where you've heard stories of people "paying under the table in US $ to get bumped up the lists". The hospital wait lists are so tightly controlled that it just can't be done. I do know that if you contact the surgical booker and explain your situation they can play with the schedule.

There are private clinics for some surgeries but they are usually restricted (bad choice of words) to people on Workers Comp, RCMP or military members, or heres my fav. politicians. But they are paid in Canadian $.

CHATSDALE · Mar 13, 2005

something i am curious about...we have an extensive charity system here...pay is when you factor in benefits are about on par with private pay hospitals...but i hear horror stories about staffing .. ratios being through the roof etc...one new graduate was put in charge of 3 proeclampic pts...in progress mi on the floor b/c there was no room on cardiac floor or icu.

i wonder if the countries with s med have these problems

gwenith, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2005

I am NO expert on this issue. But I know that some Americans tend to think of socialized medicine as this practically perfect system. "Everyone gets free health care! We need that here!" But as mentioned in the above post from Australia, in socialized systems you can often have long waiting lists! And only those who can afford to pay privately or have a private health insurance policy can get immediate/prompt care. Does this seem fair? The wealthier get better care than the poor. Hey...this sounds similar to the complaints about our US system of private health care! See...there is no perfect system! Socialized medicine and privatized medicine both have problems.
I used to live near the Canadian border and we sometimes had Canadians come to our US hospitals to pay privately for care because they were on a several year long waiting list for the procedure in Canada.
And Americans seem to complain a lot about taxes... But do you know how high the tax rates are in these "cradle to grave" countries?? Most Americans would probably flip their lids. Socialized health care isn't free...they pay for it through high tax rates.
I personally prefer out US private system.
Anyhow...I better stop writing because this topic can easily head off into political issues....

Let me clarify - our waiting lists are for non-urgent and elective procedures - if you are in trouble you get seen right away. Even on elective procedures if the waiting list gets too long there is a public outcry and the politicians will address the issue (kicking a screaming but the will eventually address the issue if we twist thier arms hard enough:chuckle)

As for paying for it through our taxes that is true but what people do not realise is that will we or nil we somehow we have to pay for health care. If it is not taxes then it is cost shifted to the private sector.

Our system has advantages too and one BIG one is that the drug companies do not like us. That is because of the PBS system which as a fixed list of public subsidised drugs. Which means that unless you get your drug on the PBS forget about marketing it here. Does that mean we do without? Hardly the PBS list is HUGE but it has only a handful of each group of drugs available i.e. there might be only 6 Beta Blockers out of a possible 12 on the market and 4 of those 6 are generic makes and therefor cheaper. It stops the price gouging little trick the drug companies have gotten into of bringing out a "new improved" version every couple of years that is not that new or that improved.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2005

something i am curious about...we have an extensive charity system here...pay is when you factor in benefits are about on par with private pay hospitals...but i hear horror stories about staffing .. ratios being through the roof etc...one new graduate was put in charge of 3 proeclampic pts...in progress mi on the floor b/c there was no room on cardiac floor or icu.
i wonder if the countries with s med have these problems

Most hospitals here use a patient - nurse ratio system like Terndcare that works out the patient acuity for each patient and assigns the nursing workload so that you might have 7 med surg patients but they are all self -caring and about to be discharged. Or you might be allocated only 2 patients but both of those are high care requirements.

It is our observation that the PRIVATE hospitals have a worse nurse/patient ratio than the public hospitals. Most commonly throughout Australia we have a 1:1 nurse patient ratio in ICU (that is RN's only) for ventilated patients.