"I'm an uncertified medical assistant"

Nursing Students CNA/MA

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I had a curious encounter at the doctor's office today. When I went in for my physical, a woman in scrubs came in ahead of the doc. She was wearing scrubs but no name tag. We hadn't met before, so I asked if she was a nurse. Yes, she replied.

I then presented her with paperwork outlining the shots I needed for school. As she looked over the paperwork, she volunteered that she was not a nurse but, in fact, a medical assistant. Oh, really? I replied. Where do you go to school for that? (I was genuinely curious.)

Well, she replied, she didn't go to school. She wasn't a "certified medical assistant," in her words, but "had a lot of experience." In fact, she'd been a CNA for 16 years, but this particular medical practice, as she explained it, "isn't like a hospital and doesn't care if you're ceritified." Hmm. Later on, the doctor sent her back to draw blood.

What would your reaction be? Obviously, she called herself a nurse, and she isn't one. (I wonder if she would have volunteered that info had she not seen my paperwork.) She called herself a medical assistant, then volunteered that she wasn't credentialed. I know nothing about MAs. Is that kosher? And what level of license does someone have to hold to be allowed to draw blood? (For what it's worth, this is the only person I've dealt with in many years at this doctor's office who wasn't wearing a name tag with credentials. Is there any kind of identification requirement?)

Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.

MA's can be certified or not. In most states it is voluntary, and involves passing a test after completing a MA program and paying fees. Most states do not require a certification and MA's in those states may have completed a program or been trained on-the-job. Those without any formal training can still call themselves MAs legally. The title is not legally protected, like the title nurse. MAs can do ANYTHING that the Dr. they work for allows. They do not have a legal scope of practice, so all errors/misconduct that may occur, will fall upon the employing physician's shoulders.

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.
I was a PCT for 10 years. Not certified, and I drew blood all day. You can be taught to draw blood in a day...

But using the term "nurse" of course, is bothersome.

They just changed the laws. 40n hours of classroom and 60 hour clinical. They are not just taught to draw blood, they do aterial blood gases and more. Its phlebotemy not venipuncture

MAs can do ANYTHING that the Dr. they work for allows. They do not have a legal scope of practice, so all errors/misconduct that may occur, will fall upon the employing physician's shoulders.

This is not the case every where. There are plenty of things that were out of scope when I was an MA.

Specializes in Cardiac Telemetry, Emergency, SAFE.

Just thought Id add:

"Although certified medical assistants are trained in phlebotomy, EKG and X-ray procedures many states mandate that anybody performing phlebotomy, EKG and X-ray must have a specific licence to do so."

from:http://www.medicalassistant.net/what_is.htm

Although I guess this could be regulated on a State level?

Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.
Just thought Id add:

"Although certified medical assistants are trained in phlebotomy, EKG and X-ray procedures many states mandate that anybody performing phlebotomy, EKG and X-ray must have a specific licence to do so."

from:http://www.medicalassistant.net/what_is.htm

Although I guess this could be regulated on a State level?

I think it must be regulated on a State to State basis as I have worked in 3 states and none of those have required licenses to perform EKG's. I think most do require it for x-ray's. The first hospital I worked for the EKG techs had only OJT, I went to school with a few. Another hospital I worked for they had the techs/na's (none certified, all of them got all their training from the hospital) doing phlebotomy and EKG's. I've only worked at a one hospital that employed MLT's as phlebotomists. Most just hire off the street though I'm sure previous experience helps.

But, all that is no excuse for someone fraudulently representing themselves.

Specializes in Trauma, Teaching.
I decided a long time ago, that hte next time I go to an office or lab etc , and someone introduces themself as a nurse I will ask dirctley if they are an RN or MA. If they say MA , I will then inform the manager that the MA needs to introduce themself as such. If not, it is considered fraud. If aked again and the same thing happens, I will press the issue with the board of nursing. (all of this will be done so that the office has no idea who is making the complaint). I am so sick of misrepresentation of RN's that I'm up for the fight. As RN's we need to be well aware of this issue, MA schools seem to give the impression to the public that MA's do the same as RN's . Infact, I am starting to feel that MA schools need to be investigated. They are promising many -a- thing that arn't true. I have seen this first hand in many situations.

It was my doctor who called the MAs "nurse" last year, as in "I'll have the nurse bring it in". I looked at her and said I thought you didn't have nurses in this office?. She said, "Oh they aren't, they're MAs, I'm just so used to saying that. They don't call thenselves nurses". I reminded her NURSE is a legally protected title!

Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.

it dont matter if you are the president of the usa you should have a name tag on if you are dealing with patients..you can get otj training to be a ma and therefore call yourself a ma....

you actually don't have to wear identification when you are a medical assistant, however when you enter the room of a patient you are suppose let that patient know who you are when entering a patients room and you are suppose to have a certification when you are a medical assistant. if you have not been a medical assistant program how can you call yourself a medical assistant.
Specializes in Geriatrics, Cardiac, ICU.
:nono: Nope! Some facilities are to cheapo to hire nurses to do those skills, therefore making consumers THINK said skills are not that involved and just anyone can do them.

I'd rather have an MA or phlebotomist that actually went to school and learned something about anatomy draw my blood. And foleys? And unlicensed person could puncture the bladder at worst or at best (tic) use poor technique and give a UTI. No thanks!!!

The hopsital I am referring to had a nurse patient ratio of 4 to 1 and they were RN's, so I don't think they were cheap.

As far as the foley's, I was taught proper technique and in reality as an agency CNA, I had the RN stading there the whole time.

I don't know, I just don't think some skills are that involved and CNA's are trained to administer enema's and that can end up pretty bad too.

So, is there also an issue with CNA's doing blood glucose checks?

BTW, I do think there are certainly practices best left to thoroughly trained nurses such as med administration.

MA's can be certified or not. In most states it is voluntary and involves passing a test after completing a MA program and paying fees. Most states do not require a certification and MA's in those states may have completed a program or been trained on-the-job.[b']Those without any formal training can still call themselves MAs legally[/b]. The title is not legally protected, like the title nurse. MAs can do ANYTHING that the Dr. they work for allows. They do not have a legal scope of practice, so all errors/misconduct that may occur, will fall upon the employing physician's shoulders.

Unfortunately, in my state, this is true except the last sentence. Under the medical assistant statute, it states that they work under the supervision of the physician. But to enforce this you have to go to the physician part of the statute. There it says that the physician is responsible for the conduct of licensed personnel, (LPN, Nurse, NP, PA, etc) working under the physician. No mention of medical assistants. So, even though the MA statute states that the medical assistant works under the supervision of a physician, when it comes to enforcement purposes, the physician is not required to supervise the medical assistant.

Catch 22: The medical assistant works under the supervision of a physician, who is not required to supervise them.

Therefore, no enforcement action can be taken against a physician for misconduct or errors on the part of a medical assistant. Civil liability and medical malpractice maybe, but it is not actionable as far as the state medical board is concerned with the physician's license to practice. With any misconduct or errors on the part of any MA, no matter how flagrant, it is up to the physician to discipline the MA, not the medical board to discipline the physician.

I had an experience with an MA involving highly inappropriate behavoir, yet the state medical board would take no action. Believe me, I went toe to toe with them over this and got nowhere. If it had been an RN, I could have hammered both the RN and Doc, but since it was an MA, I could hold neither accountable.

I think that MAs that are trained on an accredited/certified program are a credit to their professions. Some are Associate Degree programs. Sadly, there are many MAs that are not certified at all, just OJT. How do you know who is who? From what I have seen in doctors offices and clinics, very few people wear any kind of identification. If you want to know who is treating you, you have to ask and hope you get an honest answer. I have seen too many MAs and techs referred to as "nurse" by each other and by the docs. I hate it, as does my personal doc, but it's often too cumbersome and repetitive to make corrections, as it happens all the time.

It is best to just assume that anyone not wearing a name tag is probably not a nurse. ;)

she presented herself as something that she is not, that's a red flag in itself. secondly, i am in charge of who does what on my body, therefore, someone who is questionable, be it md to ma, gets the breaks.

why? they have three month course that will teach you to be a phlebotomist, but there is no certification, only a certificate.

they teach you to do these things on the job. i worked as a cna at a major hospital as a agency cna and they taught me to insert foley's.

some skills are just not that involved to be worried about them.

Specializes in ub-Acute/LTC, Home Health, L&D, Peds.
I would have asked for someone else all together and probably would not return to that office EVER. She wouldn't have drawn any blood from me.

:yeahthat: NO WAY, NO HOW:nono: would she have drawn blood or done any other procedure on me! Not after misrepresenting herself! I would ask for someone else. That is just my personal opinion.

Specializes in nursery, L and D.

I had a BIG issue with a MA a few years ago. I was doing LTC then and she was always calling herself the docs "nurse" and trying to give me orders without even consulting the doc.........saying "I know this is what he is gonna order, he'll back me up".......drove me crazy, I finally contacted the BON and they said everything she does is on the doc, he is responsible for all her actions. They did send her a letter telling her to cease using the term "nurse". On the other had, at my docs office an X-ray tech. does all the blood draws, x-rays, labs, etc and she is great (she doesn't work as a MA, more of a lab person, but she does draw all the blood) The first time I met her, many years ago, she said quite clearly that she was an x-ray tech and had been trained in the office to do all the blood draws, etc. Never misrepresented herself.

Specializes in ICU, SDU, OR, RR, Ortho, Hospice RN.

Many of the drs offices around here have MA's who are trained on the job basically.

I do have a problem with this person saying she was a nurse to start with. Yikes that alone is VERY worrisome to me!

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