"If they really cared about their mom, they wouldn't of put her in a nursing home"

[Bruce_Wayne]

Related to complaints about nursing homes I've heard arguments like "If they really loved her, they wouldn't have put her in a home. They'd take care of her themselves, nothing is more important than family."

Also, "What do you expect when you go to the cheapest possible nursing home/whatever medicare will pay for. If they really cared they'd put her in a more expensive/better nursing home".

What are your ideas about these opinions?

[nola1202]

i've got both a mother and a mother-in-law in nursing homes, and believe me, i hear that a lot. i wish people would mind their own danged business. no one knows what's going on in someone else's life, home or family.

mamita has dementia. her oldest daughter leona ostensibly tried to take care of her at home, but leona was more interested in mamita's pension check than she was in mamita. knowing what i know of the way mamita raised her children -- or abdicated it to anyone else she could get to take responsibility for them -- i can understand why leona would feel that way. but . . . during hurricane katrina, mamita walked away from an evacuation center. leona claims that she "looked for her for a whole hour." i suspect she stood in one place for an hour and gabbed with passersby while keeping one eye out for mamita, but whatever. mamita was lost in the disaster zone that was new orleans for four days. if she was questionably demented before katrina (and i thought that was a given), she was definitely demented afterward. her one goal in life was to leave whatever place she was in to go "home." meaning the home she'd lived in for thirty years that was now under water. she couldn't remember that her home was underwater for two consecutive minutes and, dementia being what it is, you couldn't reason with her. any time you turned your back on her, she'd try to get away, and if you objected, she got violent. clearly no one could take care of her in their home -- you couldn't take your eyes off of her for a moment and after she attacked my sister-in-law with a scythe, no one wanted to risk having her in their home while they were trying to sleep. she's in a locked dementia ward. she's safe, fed, medicated appropriately and isn't wandering or assaulting anyone. that's a p lus.

my mother has alzheimer's. i tried to take care of her at home for three weeks during which time i couldn't take my eyes off mom for a moment. it was january in the midwest, below zero weather, and mom was always wandering outside without a coat or even shoes. she'd get disoriented, forget what she was doing and not remember how to get inside. i couldn't close the door to take a shower or go to the bathroom -- mom would wander or she'd turn the gas on the stove but not light the burner or she'd stuff the wood stove full of wood until it glowed red. sleeping was out of the question. for three weeks, the only sleep i got was when i fell asleep at the four way stops on my way to her doctors' appointments, waiting for my turn across the intersection. by the time we found her placement in an assisted living, i was psychotic. literally batshit crazy. sleep deprivation could do that for you. even me taking weeks off work to take care of her wasn't enough. and i can't afford to quit work forever to look out for mom. mom wouldn't want me to. she decided years ago when her brother was dying of alzheimer's that she would rather go to a nursing home; even picked one out. nevertheless, people are always telling me that "no one can take care of your mother like you can." none of their business. they don't know how hard i tried; they don't know about the abusive childhood i survived.

no one knows what goes on in a household except the people who live there -- and sometimes not even them. my sister was totally oblivious to the abuse i suffered, and to this day will deny that it happened. she was the pampered princess; i was the scapegoat. so if my sister doesn't get it, why would i expect that a random stranger would? or a caregiver at a nursing home? no one is in any position to judge.

and people should mind their own business. if they're not going to be physicially caring for "mom", they don't get an opinion about who does it or where.

random caregivers at nursing homes do get it. i hear it all the time and i believe the children.

[Babs0512]

I've worked most of my career in critical care, the majority of that, in the ER. I can't tell you how much my skills learned in the ER I have brought to LTC. I have been working in LTC now for 3 years. As an ADON, where I responded to emergency situations with the residents which often meant utilizing my assessment skills, intervening in maintaining airways until EMS could arrive, splinting limbs, stabilizing cervical spines, etc.... It also meant dealing with varying degrees of dementia and/or psychotic behavior - as I did in the ER.

Now I work in case management and the screening process by evaluating patients in the hospital for placement in our LTC or short term rehab. This involves not only being able to analyze all the hospital disciplines, interpreting lab data and other tests - but also dealing with families. All the families I have encountered have varying degrees of guilt, remorse, grief and even relief (which often leads to guilt) over placing a loved one in a LTC facility. Most families have either been taking care of the loved one at home - but the patient has become too care intensive that the family can no longer care for them in the home setting - or the MD suggests they would be better off in LTC, where they can be monitor in a SKILLED nursing facility 24 hours a day.

LTC workers are hard workers, the majority are dedicated to their "residents", know their likes and dislikes, know how best to redirect behaviors in varying residents and they know when something "isn't right" with their resident. If the nurse (no flaming, just stating a fact) is an LPN or RN without previous hospital experience - they may not be able to deduce exactly what is wrong, but they know to call the NP, or the Nurse manager, or the nursing supervisor for assistance in assessment and management of the resident. There is a lot of skill required in a LTC setting.

Due to the fact that I deal a lot with families, I have been wanting to start a group to meet monthly or bi-weekly, so families can share their feelings, whatever those feelings may be, regarding the decision and placement of their loved one in a LTC facility. I can assure you, I have met NO ONE who is "happy" with the choice, but they realize it is best for their loved one, AND themselves - to come to this decision.

Nuff said.

[talaxandra]

I think that's an awesome idea, Babs - I think it would be an amazing support for families who, despite several members who've contributing to this thread, have more often than not coped very well under enormous strain before making a really difficult decision.

And thank you for so beutifully articulating the level of skill, devotion and hard graft of carers in these facilities.

[Poi Dog]

Some say it is a bad idea, I like to call it job security.

Nice post, Babs!

[poopprincess]

I'm with the "mind your own business." There are way too many comments on here for me to read them all so sorry if I am a repeat.

First off people don't know the relationship between the family members prior to the parent getting sick. My mother is a perfect example. She has MAJOR psych issues and is noncompliant. She is a huge drama queen and loves to "split" those around her. She also is extremely bitter because she hates herself (something I can't understand) and she takes all that hatred and projects onto those around her. She is great at making one feel inadequate. So what is my point? Take that compounded with medical problems. DISASTER. Thankfully, she is in good health at this time, but I wouldn't ever take her into my home. I love her with all my heart. I really do-but I can't handle it. Not to mention my husband and son-how would all that negativity be fair to them? I'm not willing to get a divorce over her and that is probably what would happen. SO it is easy for folks to judge cause they have no clue. Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has got one. Just my 2 cents.

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

if the 4 members of my family are paying in the middle five figures all out of pocket, then why should our taxes go to pay for other people's parents who are in nursing homes? yes, it is my business how my taxes are spent, and while i'm glad to have taxes for the military, police and fire dept as well as innocent children with their whole lives ahead of them, why should i have to pay for long tem care expenses of other people when we're paying in the five figures out of pocket? families should take care if their own, and those without children should buy long term care insurance and save for the future.

so how do you feel about wic, foodstamps and welfare? by that rationale, all of those recipients (as well as people living in public housing) should be cut off, and their families should be supporting them, right?

[Nascar nurse, ASN, RN]

I'm not going to address Jackson's posts - if none of the responses so far have caused any kind of attitude shift then there's no point. Besides, I already called troll.

I think it's criminal that we disrespect the specialised care and attention skilled Aged, SUpervised and High Level Care residents need and deserve. If we did then not only would these areas be adequately staffed, by a combination of qualified and adjuctant staff, but these people would be appropriately paid.

Every Single Time I care for patients with long term high level care needs who also have behavioural issues, treatment-resistant psychiatric conditions, substance abuse problems, altered cognition, developmental delay, or other complicating aspect, I give thanks that I'm only involved in the acute care. I truly don't know how the staff caring for these patients longterm do such a great job - I appreciate and respect their work, and wish more people felt the same way.

Thank you! That was beautiful and very much appreciated.

[Bruce_Wayne, ASN, RN]

I am only playing devil's advocate here to continue the conversation and flesh some points out.

Specifically speaking to the "you don't know the relationship they had with their mother, she may have been abusive" argument: then wouldn't the statement "she must not love her parent" be a correct and concise way of rephrasing that situation?

[xtxrn, ASN, RN]

Is the horse dead yet?

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

is the horse dead yet?

evidently not.

[Babs0512]

to Bruce Wayne: "you don't know the relationship they had with their mother, she may have been abusive" argument: then wouldn't the statement "she must not love her parent" be a correct and concise way of rephrasing that situation?

Obviously, you haven't worked with abused children. Often, the children who are abused very much love the parent who abuses them - after all, it is their Mom or Dad - and they may not know anything else. Also, the children often feel "responsible" for the abuse, therefore, they feel if they love the parent more, behave better, get better grades, etc... then Mommy or Daddy will love them more.

I was an abused child, I understand the dynamics involved. It wasn't until I was 30, divorced and living as a single mother that I saw my father for what he was, a selfish man who would never utter the words "I'm proud of you" - for that was all that I wanted. I still got put down and berated. I wrote him a letter, and erased him from my life. He's gone now, I found out about his death 2 weeks after he passed. I do not "miss" him, I did not grieve his death, but I did "grieve" the loss of never having the father I feel I deserved. I never hated him, I always loved him, but as an adult - I was able to see that his behaviors were HIS problems, not mine - and that he was a toxic relationship that I "chose" not to partake in any longer.

Trust me, there may be some cases where the child does not love the parent, but in 99% if the cases, the child always has love for the parent. So, your statement is incorrect.

I have worked with many children who have been abused, and I lived it. I do know that I am correct and you are not. Respectfully, Babs

[Biffbradford]

Pa died at home, in his sleep from CHF back in '76 (congenital defect). Ma died a few years ago in the hospital of urosepsis/resp. failure at age 89. I fought tooth and nail with all the rehab centers to get her back home after a fx ankle, broken hip, minor CVA. She was on tube feeding and pleasantly confused all the time, but my mission was to keep her out of the the nursing home, and by golly, I did it!