"Don't waste your time getting your BSN..."

leslymill · Sep 14, 2007

Just out of curiosity are their any conclusive studies that indicate that a bachelors trained nurse has better skills and is a safer practitioner than an associates trained or diploma nurse? I'm guessing the answer is no. And why are some jobs like some OR and med/surg positions BSN required? If their are no additional nursing skills taught at the BSN level, then why the discrimination in these positions or one's that require BSN? Thanks for the info,
J

There is research of decreased infections when BSN's are employed at higher levels than ADN's. My OPINION is their isn't enough sound research...yet

The hiring is a legal issue. More law suits in those areas.

Going to court with a BSN in your pocket, even if it is the doctor's fault, is better for the hospital in a legal arguement.

Many ADN's and Diploma nurse's hold torchest to matches to BSN's in the area's of respect and professionalism. This is from experience and judgement.

This trend of thinking will fade too.

leslymill · Sep 14, 2007

Deep deep down I resent the fact that I don't have a BSN. Not all of us are fortunate or privileged enough I guess. Tweedy is right about being respectful to others. Nothing worse than trying to relay a significant point of view that hasn't been proven yet and making people threatened and defensive. Nursing is not just a profession...........it is someone's livelyhood. Most of use want to die feeling respect. If nursing can't give me that, it gave me a strong illusion or sense of purpose.

scooterRN52 · Sep 14, 2007

Whew, my thoughts exactly.

DITTO!!! Doctor's don't talk about each other like nurses do.:uhoh21:

scooterRN52 · Sep 14, 2007

Thanks Tweety. I, as a soon to be ADN grad, worry over hearing that "we" are supposed to "hit the ground running" or show up clinically proficient as a new grad. I have enough common sense to know that I really have no clue yet. I expect to graduate with the skills and knowledge to keep my practice relatively safe under the guidance of a good orientation period and experienced nurse. BSN/ADN and probably even diploma nurses are not truly going to be competent upon graduating. Getting a BSN would require one year after my ADN program. I have to believe that the extra year would teach me something of interest and use. There is no need to put the BSN education down. On that same note, if a person graduates and passes the NCLEX as an ADN, probably they have what it takes to complete an extra year of classes and obtain a BSN, and certainly, because the proper foundation has already taken root, many nurses have educated themselves to the extent of a BSN grad or higher by virtue of continuing education, seminars, nursing texts and other forms of education. So basically, lets keep the snootiness to a minimum.

Can someone tell me why BSN'S need 6 months to a year orietation compared to the 6 week orientation I had as an ADN?:uhoh21:

jjjoy, LPN · Sep 14, 2007

Can someone tell me why BSN'S need 6 months to a year orietation compared to the 6 week orientation I had as an ADN?:uhoh21:

Where did you hear this? I haven't heard of separate orientations for BSN vs. ADN. I've only seen "New Grad RN" orientation, which vary quite a bit in length. Specialty areas such as ICU usually have longer orientations.

HealthyRN · Sep 14, 2007

Can someone tell me why BSN'S need 6 months to a year orietation compared to the 6 week orientation I had as an ADN?:uhoh21:

I have never heard of a BSN grad or any grad getting a year of orientation. Six months in a speciality unit, yes, but certainly not a year. You may be thinking of the "residency" programs that some units and hospitals have set up to help support new grads. It does not mean that you are getting a year of orientation on the unit. The programs usually provide some type of mentoring and networking with other new grads for the first year.

I noticed that you've been practicing for 18 years. It's probably safe to say that nursing practice has advanced since you graduated. Nurses are expected to care for a greater number of patients at a higher level of acuity. Also, new grads are starting out on speciality units, like ICU or ED, and that may lengthen the orientation period. Orientations for new grads are unit specific.

I started out as a BSN grad in the ED. I was told that I could have up to 6 months orientation, but I only took 4 months. I could have functioned safely on my own at 3 months, but I was grateful for the extra weeks. My orientation involved both classroom learning and time on the floor, as well as the opportunity to complete my speciality training, like ACLS, PALS, and TNCC.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 14, 2007

Can someone tell me why BSN'S need 6 months to a year orietation compared to the 6 week orientation I had as an ADN?:uhoh21:

It must be a regional thing. I've never heard of any new grad needing 6 months to a year.

BSNs, ADNs, and Diploma nurses where I work come out of school and are given 12 weeks or orientation regardless of degree. 95% of them are well prepared and this 12 weeks is fine with them. The other 5% might need a bit more nuturing and are given more time. But if they can't quickly cut it they are let go and never given more than 14 to 16 weeks. Six months to a year??? Unheard of.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 14, 2007

Just out of curiosity are their any conclusive studies that indicate that a bachelors trained nurse has better skills and is a safer practitioner than an associates trained or diploma nurse? I'm guessing the answer is no. And why are some jobs like some OR and med/surg positions BSN required? If their are no additional nursing skills taught at the BSN level, then why the discrimination in these positions or one's that require BSN? Thanks for the info,
J

There are no conclusive studies. They are just too difficult to undertake. The ones that have concluded BSNs are safer nurses have had flaws. https://allnurses.com/forums/1379680-post3.html

Med-surg is BSN preferred where you live? Interesting.

HudsonValleyRN, BSN · Sep 14, 2007

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Sep 14, 2007

DITTO!!! Doctor's don't talk about each other like nurses do.:uhoh21:

Well, there's that good ol' D.O. vs. M.D. can of worms....

Piki · Sep 14, 2007

Calling a diploma nurse a nurse is like calling and x-ray technician a radiologist or like calling a day care worker a teacher. An x-ray technician isn't a radiologist and an ADN isn't a "Professional Nurse" - he/she is a technical nurse.

Are you kidding me? :uhoh21: First of all, I am proud to say I am a Diploma grad from 2007 from a hospital based school of nursing. They are actually very popular (and common) up in this area of the country (western PA). In fact, the city of Pittsburgh has at least half a dozen, if not more, hospital based diploma programs. These programs are not easy to get into, it is a very intense program of study (year round), and we log in more clinical hours than either the community colleges or the BSN programs. Why did I choose to go this route vs. ADN or BSN? Because I was in my late 30's, with two degrees already under my belt. A bachelors in Comp Sci and a M.S. in Occupational technology. And believe me when I tell you going to nursing school was absolutely the hardest I've ever worked in school, even when I got my master's when I was a working professional in the computer industry. To equate a diploma in nursing as somehow "less" than any other route of getting your RN is shameful (and to say, also rather ignorant on your part). We spent more class hours in class (Monday - Friday 8:30-4 p.m., with 2 full clinical days per week, as well as all the many hours of clinical prep as required by our school). We easily logged in more than 1200 clinical hours during the course of study . Our diploma is equivalent to an ADN in terms of transferring to an RN to BSN program. To apply to any diploma school also requires admission to an affiliated 4 year college or university - b/c our non nursing courses are taught by faculty from the affiliated college or univ, either on site or at the college itself. I can only assume you are not readily familiar with diploma programs.

Another option I could have done, was one of the accelerated 2nd degree BSN tracks. I would have had my BSN, yes, but it's very doubtful I would have been as clinically prepared as I felt through 3 years of progressive study through my hospital based program. And to be honest, the NCLEX passing rate at the diploma schools (at least mine in particular) far surpasses both the national average and the passing rate of many BSN, and 2nd degree BSN programs. So, what makes a better nurse? Apparently to you it is higher education alone and all that extra "floor time" that diploma students go through doesn't mean a hill of beans.

I suggest we petition the boards of nursing for such a ruling: grandfather those ADNs with greater than two years practice and disallow anything LESS than a BSN to get re-registered NOW.

Again, are you kidding me? So are you saying those of us that didn't get BSNs and have only been out for 2 years or less should be stripped of our professional license, lose our employment, benefits, and professional standing so we should go back and spend 10-20K in education to get a BSN? And then, re-take the NCLEX? You are appallingly ignorant in your statements. :nono:

I'm sure my statements aren't going to make a hill of beans to you either. From what I've gathered (and being a relative newbie here on the boards), luckily most people here are a little more open-minded about what being a professional nurse is all about.

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Sep 14, 2007

please explain to all the lvn's and adn's here on this forum your basis for claiming that our mere existence has "really hurt the nursing profession". with all due respect, do you even have a clue what a lvn does?

but the reality is that associate and lpn programs have really hurt the nursing profession. first of all they need to close down lpn schools and stop training them. second they need to shut down adn programs and make all adn's get their bsn. .