"Don't waste your time getting your BSN..."

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Sep 11, 2007

seems that here in the U.S. people want short cuts and rebuke higher education when it is beneficial to the human condition. It allows a bigger perspective on life and care giving. Why stay in a tiny box rather than going for more advanced degrees?

Thanks for the compliment :rolleyes:

Jerico, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

Thanks for the compliment

My opinion of the ADN/RN debate:

"You don't know what you don't know"....The nurses with the lower level degree do not KNOW what they DO NOT know. Once you learn and find out what you didn't know before - then you KNOW why BSN is the way to go.

Education in ANY subject rounds out the human experience.

ADN is a technician position; BSN is a professional position.

Having said that: If you can afford to and have the intellect to do so, get a BSN,RN.

Why? The statements in most ads for nurses: "BSN preferred"; "BSN required".

Get the BSN early on and you will ALWAYS have it.

Calling a diploma nurse a nurse is like calling and x-ray technician a radiologist or like calling a day care worker a teacher. An x-ray technician isn't a radiologist and an ADN isn't a "Professional Nurse" - he/she is a technical nurse.

Dragonnurse1, ASN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

:flamesonbIn my experience having a BSN in a emergency is like having tits on a hog. They do not know what or how to take care of a patient. We the ASN's have to start their iv's, we can calculate a dopamine drip in our heads while the BSN is looking for the cheat sheet. BSN is good for political moves, for climbing the proverbial ladder to higher office. Not me I never wanted to do anymore than take care of the GSW, stab wound, mvc victim, the child sent 100 miles home the day after a blaylock shunt is put in his heart and for the burn victoms. :flamesonb

In nine years there was only 1 BSN that cut it in the ER and she was the manager.:smackingf The only she could help was when we blocked the trauuma doors so she could not get in. And since when is an ASN to be looked down on. I took classes 7 quarters straight and that included my non-nursing courses.

ASN's do, BSN's talk, MSN's teach or run things and NP's are treated like shi*.

you put all nurses in a Kobiasha Maru and we do not deserve that from one of our own. Remember truth is a 3 edged sword.:doh:

amzyRN · Sep 13, 2007

:flamesonbIn my experience having a BSN in a emergency is like having tits on a hog. They do not know what or how to take care of a patient. We the ASN's have to start their iv's, we can calculate a dopamine drip in our heads while the BSN is looking for the cheat sheet. BSN is good for political moves, for climbing the proverbial ladder to higher office. Not me I never wanted to do anymore than take care of the GSW, stab wound, mvc victim, the child sent 100 miles home the day after a blaylock shunt is put in his heart and for the burn victoms. :flamesonb
In nine years there was only 1 BSN that cut it in the ER and she was the manager.:smackingf The only she could help was when we blocked the trauuma doors so she could not get in. And since when is an ASN to be looked down on. I took classes 7 quarters straight and that included my non-nursing courses.
ASN's do, BSN's talk, MSN's teach or run things and NP's are treated like shi*.
you put all nurses in a Kobiasha Maru and we do not deserve that from one of our own. Remember truth is a 3 edged sword.:doh:

I think it's important not to generalize about ASNs and BSNs, because we can never generalize that way. Also, in my post, I was just saying that getting more education broadens the mind (usually). Education should gives us a broader perspective on the human condition. Take care,

J

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

"you don't know what you don't know"....
calling a diploma nurse a nurse is like calling and x-ray technician a radiologist or like calling a day care worker a teacher. an x-ray technician isn't a radiologist and an adn isn't a "professional nurse" - he/she is a technical nurse.

there are many nurses that "don't know what they should know" and this includes many nurses i know with a bsn.

you are just wrong for this ...and a adn may not be considered a professional nurse in the eyes of many...but they successfully passed the same nclex as you.

Dragonnurse1, ASN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

you are right there are good and bad nurses at every level. We all decide at what level we want to stop. Around here BSN and up means political brown-nosing and truly being lazy. Not every SBN is that way. But right now ASN or BSN we take the same test. I was the last of the 2 day pencil and paper testing and saw new grads get up and walk out. I'll remember that if you stop listing BSN vs Community College. Troy State University of Montgomery School of Nursing is not a community college and as many flunk as pass. I got a job offer right after I grad. from a DR from Seattle just because of when I went to school. I have a son going into nursing and I have told him to go for his BSN because soon we ASN's will be grandfathered in and he will need the B instead of the A.Friends?:cheers:

Jerico, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

you are right there are good and bad nurses at every level. We all decide at what level we want to stop. Around here BSN and up means political brown-nosing and truly being lazy. Not every SBN is that way. But right now ASN or BSN we take the same test. I was the last of the 2 day pencil and paper testing and saw new grads get up and walk out. I'll remember that if you stop listing BSN vs Community College. Troy State University of Montgomery School of Nursing is not a community college and as many flunk as pass. I got a job offer right after I grad. from a DR from Seattle just because of when I went to school. I have a son going into nursing and I have told him to go for his BSN because soon we ASN's will be grandfathered in and he will need the B instead of the A.Friends?:cheers:

Nursing programs NEED to be leveled in order for COHESION to take place in the profession of nursing. In order for us all to be equal (in PERCEPTION or otherwise...) we should all not ONLY take the same test but also have the same LEVEL of education. This is regardless of whether WE all agree it is necessary.

As long as there are different requirements AVAILABLE to meet the TESTING and licensure there will be descension among nurses! It is HUMAN nature.

When there is a BSN available to HIRE hospitals will hire that one FIRST in 99% cases. For magnet status and for quality. Higher level of education wins out because it is JUST that - a higher level.

I am not trying to put ANYONE down, I know how hard ADN, LPN - ALL of us work on the job.

It is WHY wage FIXING in areas is easy to do to us! Grandfather IN the shorter degrees NOW and require BSN or higher. It has GOT to be or wages will continue to be at the bottom of the PROFESSIONAL pay scales.

suzy253, RN · Sep 13, 2007

ADN is a technician position; BSN is a professional position.
Calling a diploma nurse a nurse is like calling and x-ray technician a radiologist or like calling a day care worker a teacher. An x-ray technician isn't a radiologist and an ADN isn't a "Professional Nurse" - he/she is a technical nurse.

So I'm not a professional nurse?? I'm a proud 3-year diploma program grad. Someone better inform the state BON that their wording on my license is wrong.

I'll quote you "You don't know what you don't know". I think that sums up your statement very well about diploma nurses. I went through three grueling years education. Perhaps you really don't know what diploma programs are all about.

leslymill · Sep 13, 2007

I'm about to graduate as an LPN. I have considered taking my BSN, but was wondering if I should just get my RN or go for the BSN. Any thoughts?

I think you should get your RN and with that pay get your BSN.

It might take over a year longer, but with your LPN license you can do alot of it on line. The RN will help the nurse shortage and your pay check. BSN research seems to indicate improved safeety and quality of our bedside care. I only have my ADN and for 15 years didn't want a BSN till the research proved it does more than fill management positions.

Jerico, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

So I'm not a professional nurse?? I'm a proud 3-year diploma program grad. Someone better inform the state BON that their wording on my license is wrong.
I'll quote you "You don't know what you don't know". I think that sums up your statement very well about diploma nurses. I went through three grueling years education. Perhaps you really don't know what diploma programs are all about.

I believe I do. A had a "diploma" program in engineering. Nursing is doing any GOOD by allowing LESS than a BSN to take the NCLEX.

By allowing this we continue to give the impression nursing is "just a helping" profession rather than an autonomous stand "with the TEAM" profession.

An impression (whether one likes or accepts it or not...) given by less than a BSN is that the person with the lesser degree is WILLING to give less than 100%. I KNOW it isn't the INTENT of the person, but a TRUE professional gives 110% and that includes the personal sacrifice to contribute to making the profession stand up to ANY scrutiny such as the public noting we ALLOW incomplete nursing "degrees" into the BSN/REGISTERED NURSE realm.

Don't tell me it does not matter to the public, either. If it didn't matter there would only be TWO year technical nurses. THAT is what the money hungry hospitals would like: Little robots that have been taught technical TASKS rather than thinking autonomously and with educated REASON.

The best thing that ever happened to nursing and the REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL NURSE is MAGNET status.

If I were an ADN or anything LESS than a BSN I'd be PISSED if I had to take the SAME test and not have career security.

I think that is what the hostility is ALL about: we are not all on EQUAL footing and UNTIL we do get there through grandfathering and ending the POOLING of different depths of nursing education, the hostility between 2-3-4 and EVEN LPN level nurses will never END. Therefore unity can never begin.

The KEY is to PULL us all up....then UNITY, PEACE and PROFESSIONAL status equal to that of other well educated (and well PAID) PROFESSIONS can happen.

Our PAY is going to stay at the LOW end until we gather together as a single, unified PROFESSION and say, "Nope, that isn't ENOUGH for what we have invested in our profession".

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

we should all not ONLY take the same test but also have the same LEVEL of education. This is regardless of whether WE all agree it is necessary.
When there is a BSN available to HIRE hospitals will hire that one FIRST in 99% cases. For magnet status and for quality. Higher level of education wins out because it is JUST that - a higher level.
It is WHY wage FIXING in areas is easy to do to us! Grandfather IN the shorter degrees NOW and require BSN or higher. It has GOT to be or wages will continue to be at the bottom of the PROFESSIONAL pay scales.

First, if you want all RNs to start at the same level, why not make that level ADN/ASN (typically a 3 degree) , as most of us already have that.

Second, as far as your allegation that in 99% of cases, the hire will go to a BSN over other applicants, I beg to differ. I have been hired over plenty of BSNs....at some of the best hospitals in the nation. Including the one typically listed as the top hospital in this nation.

Third, there are plenty of professional groups in this country that have significantly lower wages than nurses. I make more than many Masters degree prepared professionals.

Wage fixing occurs because many nurses focus on trivial issues such as, BSN vs ADN, ER vs the floors, ICU vs the floors, management vs. worker bees, NOCs vs days, new grads vs experienced nurses, etc.

And lastly, review the evidence out there on states and nations that require a Bachelor's level for nursing. Did it improve conditions, wages, nursing status...anyone, anyone? Please give us the evidence and data.

Jerico, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2007

First, if you want all RNs to start at the same level, why not make that level ADN/ASN (typically a 3 degree) , as most of us already have that.
Jerico: BECAUSE LESS EDUCATION IS A RATIONALE FOR HOSPITALS TO KEEP PAY LOWER AND SAY "They ONLY have an ADN..."
Second, as far as your allegation that in 99% of cases, the hire will go to a BSN over other applicants, I beg to differ. I have been hired over plenty of BSNs....at some of the best hospitals in the nation. Including the one typically listed as the top hospital in this nation.
Jerico: I have been in the position of DOING the hiring, I've sat on HR teams. We offer internship programs to NEW BSN nurses and we will SELECT an RN with a BSN 99.9% of the time. WHY? Because MAGNET status is a pull to the BEST nurses out there, because MAGNET status helps with JCH and offers career progression and education to nurses. Magnet means more professional, more education, better working environment. Magnet hospitals keep unions out by providing superior working environments for NURSE professionals. Magnet hospitals must have a certain percentage of their nursing workforce BSN/RNs in order to make MAGNET status.
Third, there are plenty of professional groups in this country that have significantly lower wages than nurses. I make more than many Masters degree prepared professionals.
Jerico: After how many YEARS? Am glad you make more, but over a long haul I have doubts.
Wage fixing occurs because many nurses focus on trivial issues such as, BSN vs ADN, ER vs the floors, ICU vs the floors, management vs. worker bees, NOCs vs days, new grads vs experienced nurses, etc.
Jerico: I do not believe it, it makes no sense. WHY on earth SHOULD ICU nurses make LESS than M/S nurses? ICU nurses have extremely high RISK. M/S nurses can use MORE support personnel; ICU does not have that luxury because it takes more training of support personnel and many hospitals don't fund such. Have ALWAYS wondered WHY on earth ICU/OR - the more INTENSELY risky areas do not pay more...the procedures bring in ALOT more. Hospitals are getting bargains: they make the HIGH bucks on ICU, OR, Procedure based areas but do not give nurses in those areas higher pay. Hmmmm.....
And lastly, review the evidence out there on states and nations that require a Bachelor's level for nursing. Did it improve conditions, wages, nursing status...anyone, anyone? Please give us the evidence and data.

Look at the development of MAGNET status.

Look at how NP programs have taken off.

If you have a BSN and if you don't like the way you are treated/paid and your experience is EQUAL (and alot of times doesn't even have to be equal) to that of an ADN program RN you have another job.

The wind is a-changing and we'd be smart to JOIN strengths, stop the lesser degree and HOLD on for the BSN.

I would NEVER advise someone asking whether to do diploma OR BSN to choose diploma. It is counterproductive and poor career advice in todays medical environment.