I would love to hear from some more experienced ppl some ways to deal with these types of personal questions. In my region, there are many devout evangelical Christian people who I think are genuinely concerned about the state of my soul. When folks like this are in the hospital, they're also feeling vulnerable, and they probably want to discuss their faith with someone who can help them feel more grounded. I am not necessarily that person.
I get the questions, "Are you saved?" "What church do you go to?" "Have you accepted Jesus as your lord and savior?" etc. frequently in the hospital where I work. 1. I don't believe my personal religious stuff is my patients' business. 2. I do not want to be dishonest about my personal religious/lack of religious stuff.
So far, the best I've come up with is, "It sounds like Christ is important in your life. Tell me more about that."
I've heard that question from patients all over the country, off and on for over 30 years--with one exception: I have never been asked that question in the San Francisco Bay Area. People are too p.c. there, and the population is far too diverse. People could really care less what relgious beliefs you have.
But the people who DO ask this question always ask it rudely, in your face, almost shouting and apropos of nothing, catching you off guard by saying, usually: "HAVE YOU ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR?!" in a very aggressive, demanding, hostile tone. That's the part that really bothers me--they are so smug; so condescending in their manner.
I, personally, was raised Catholic and I practice both Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism. I will pray with a Catholic patient if he or she wants me to (I have even asked in surgery if they'd like me to say a prayer with them, or the Rosary on the floors, if I know they are Catholic) and I will say various Tibetan 3 or 6 line prayers with Tibetan Buddhists--same drill. I will even read from The Tibetan Book of the Dead for Buddhist patients, if I think it will comfort them (but only if they want me to.)
But if some busybody has the nerve to approach me demanding to know if I'm "saved" I will put a big smile on my face and say "Actually, I am a witch, and I practice Wicca" or "I am a Satanist. Have you ever heard of Anton Levay?"
Works every time. I'm sure they are shocked and will pray for what they believe is my hellbound soul, and probably start a prayer chain within their group of friends. At least they won't bug me anymore! Serves them right.
My brother does the same thing when Jehovah's Witnesses or those nice young clean cut LDS guys show up, uninvited, on his doorstep, which I think is a bit unnecessary--at least on the part of the young LDS men, who are merely carrying out their missions, and are not at all pushy. (The Jehovahs' Witnesses, however, are another story---I have literally had them wedge a foot in my door, to keep me from closing it.......)
This is slightly off topic. Stevierae, your post reminded me that in the PACU at our hospital, above the nurses' desk, is a picture of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and a line of prayer flags. Appropriate for people who are "waking up!" I take refuge in the Versed....
Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.
Which has included getting people's crystals out of the laundry basket (lots of new Agers here)
OK, just like the "I'm going to hell" offended you, the above offended me. We shouldn't be belittling anyone's religion or spiritual path.
And Sharon, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with "us", but not all of us care only about "new business" or passing judgment, a true Christian really does care about the individual in front of them. :kiss
I've met (sadly) far fewer of these than of the type sharon mentioned. I think that ANY religion that helps someone be a better person is a good one, and I'm saddened by people who use religion as a facade to do mean, bad things.
Now...here's how I've handled things like the OP mentioned, as I'm in NC, as red of a state as they get:
Q: "Are you saved?"
A: "You know, I get asked that question a lot. I think being in the ICU really makes people think about what's important to them. Is your religion a big part of your life?" This *always* distracts them from their original question. They assume the answer is yes- which is precisely what they want to hear- and they move on to what they *really* want to talk about, which is how they turn to god in times of need.
Q: "What church do you attend?" I find this comment to be even more rude- there's an obvious judgement implied.
A: "Well, I used to work as a church musician, and I grew up in the methodist church. I studied religion in college, so I've been to pretty much every type of service there is. What about you?"
Q: "I'll be praying for you" (usually when they find out I'm about to graduate from nursing school).
A: "Thank you."
Q: "Will you pray with me?"
A: "I'll be here with you if you want me to."
Q: "Will you pray for me?"
A: "I can promise you that a lot of people will be praying for you. We'll all be doing the best we can to help you get well." I simply won't lie and say, 'yes, I'll pray for you'; at the same time, I won't say 'nope' to something like that- usually it's before a scary surgery.
I do get irritated with coworkers who say stuff like, 'Has Jesus touched your heart today?', especially in front of patients. I typically say, 'well, I think he had his hands full with you!' They usually have no idea what I mean, but generally assume it's positive, and they move on.
Oh, what else. The questions they ask can mean so many different things. You being there with the patient and their family are the only one who can tell (we can't tell from just reading the post).
Some questions to ask are, what are they really asking? Are they expressing a need also? This has to take into context within their culture (evangelic Christian culture in this case).
For example, when someone is in the hospital, they are vulnerable and maybe feeling a bit "useless". Doing some "evangelical work" while lying in bed might give them a sense of purpose. They may have a spiritual question of "why me?" Especially if they have a theology of "if I am a good Christian, I should not get sick" (I don't know if this is true or not where you are; probably patient dependent because even within the evaangelical churches, there are differences). Trying to "convert" you give a good explanation of why they are in the hospital. In this scenerio, the person really should be connected with the chaplancy or their pastors.
Here is a little tip, you do not need to be involve in the chaplancy to minister to someone at the spiritual level. You don't even need to be the same faith (although it helps if both are of similar faith because one would have more tools to work with and one does not have to stay "generic"). The thing to remember is this at the spiritual level, do what you can to give hope, to encourage, and to comfort (which sure sound like what nurses do lots of time anyway). At a more detail level, lots of time it is just your presence will do, your nonjudgemental presence (they can try to convert you all day long; that is ok if it helps them to feel like they have some meaning). Sometimes, you might have the opportunity to reconnect to the sources they have help them through hard time before (in your context, probably their church community, their faith, and so on). I do this when I am ministering to someone who is not the same faith as I am.
I've heard that question from patients all over the country, off and on for over 30 years--with one exception: I have never been asked that question in the San Francisco Bay Area. People are too p.c. there, and the population is far too diverse. People could really care less what relgious beliefs you have.
But the people who DO ask this question always ask it rudely, in your face, almost shouting and apropos of nothing, catching you off guard by saying, usually: "HAVE YOU ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR?!" in a very aggressive, demanding, hostile tone. That's the part that really bothers me--they are so smug; so condescending in their manner.
I, personally, was raised Catholic and I practice both Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism. I will pray with a Catholic patient if he or she wants me to (I have even asked in surgery if they'd like me to say a prayer with them, or the Rosary on the floors, if I know they are Catholic) and I will say various Tibetan 3 or 6 line prayers with Tibetan Buddhists--same drill. I will even read from The Tibetan Book of the Dead for Buddhist patients, if I think it will comfort them (but only if they want me to.)
But if some busybody has the nerve to approach me demanding to know if I'm "saved" I will put a big smile on my face and say "Actually, I am a witch, and I practice Wicca" or "I am a Satanist. Have you ever heard of Anton Levay?"
Works every time. I'm sure they are shocked and will pray for what they believe is my hellbound soul, and probably start a prayer chain within their group of friends. At least they won't bug me anymore! Serves them right.
My brother does the same thing when Jehovah's Witnesses or those nice young clean cut LDS guys show up, uninvited, on his doorstep, which I think is a bit unnecessary--at least on the part of the young LDS men, who are merely carrying out their missions, and are not at all pushy. (The Jehovahs' Witnesses, however, are another story---I have literally had them wedge a foot in my door, to keep me from closing it.......)
Even though I don't follow or agree with their beliefs, the LDS men have always been very sweet and nice when they have came to my door. I've always taken their papers and told them thank you for their time. When they ask if they can follow up with me or come in and talk with me about it, I decline. They always flash big smiles and seem very sincere when they say "thank you" and "have a nice day." I don't see them for a month or two and I'll get another visit. But always very, very nice.
On the other hand, I did the same thing with the witnesses. I've now stopped.
DISCLAIMER: I don't want to offend any witness nurses here... I know you're not all the same! I think it might just be the ones in my area.
The first time was much like the LDS missionaries that came. We basically had the same friendly exchange. Except that they came back every other day for about two weeks. I stopped answering the door. One day, they came on a Saturday and my husband was home. THEY ASKED FOR ME BY NAME!! I was a freaked... I hadn't told them. They must have gotten it off the mailbox. I am sure they were just trying to be persistant with someone who they felt was receptive (yeah, I am really nice to them when they come to do the door!), but I was hoping they would get the hint.
While they were nice and polite, they were very persistant.
The next episode I had was a different man come. The man wedged his foot in my door and became very demeaning and had agressive body language when I said he could not come inside right now and that I'd take his papers and let them know.
I was not friendly when I demanded he leave. I was truely scared. I was at home alone with my three year old daughter in my empty neighborhood... NONE of my neighbors are home before 3pm. If I had screamed, no one would have heard me. Usually, I wouldn't think that they would try to hurt me. But the way he acted... was scary. And, he was by himself. That seemed odd to me, as I had always seen them come in pairs. I yelled for my husband (who was not home) and he turned turned around and left, thankfully!
I grew up in NC and know exactly where you're coming from. It's SO wonderful to live in a place now where religion is a non-issue (Seattle). Nobody ever asks me those types of questions here, and it's so freeing to not be judged for my (lack of) religion. Honestly, I'll never live in the bible belt (or a "red" state) again!
To the OP, if you ever decided to move West where people in general do not ask these kind of questions, do not go to Seattle (it rains every day). Come to California instead, we need nurses here. :)
The next episode I had was a different man come. The man wedged his foot in my door and became very demeaning and had agressive body language when I said he could not come inside right now and that I'd take his papers and let them know.
I was not friendly when I demanded he leave. I was truely scared. I was at home alone with my three year old daughter in my empty neighborhood... NONE of my neighbors are home before 3pm. If I had screamed, no one would have heard me. Usually, I wouldn't think that they would try to hurt me. But the way he acted... was scary. And, he was by himself. That seemed odd to me, as I had always seen them come in pairs. I yelled for my husband (who was not home) and he turned turned around and left, thankfully!
That would have scared me to death.
I don't think he was JW or a LDS. They usually always come in pairs.
I would be willing to bet that man was intending to do you harm.
Just goes to show we should be very careful who we open the door to.
Well, here's my reasoning on asking them about it: They asked me the question because they want to talk about Jesus, not really because they're asking about me. That's okay, because I think that in the nurse/pt relationship, it really IS all about them and not at all about me. I think I'm cool with them talking about Jesus, as long as they're not scrutinizing me. I do not enjoy being scrutinized by my pts!! Bleh!
Zenman, your answers about poop & pee are hilarious. HAR!!!
Well by all means if you have the time, then go for it. I still say it is in the best interests of everyone if you refer them to the chaplain services. I speak from long hard experience. I had one woman who almost went into a trance when she started talking about Jesus and the bible she spoke in such a way that it was almost impossible to break in. And remember if you start it, you got to keep it up, that means be prepared to speak "Jesus" talk each and everytime you walk in the room. That can be very awkward. I also got caught up in the "Can you pray with me", those are really hard to get out of because how can you refuse that? Those tend to be more sincere than the "are you saved" queries.
And Sharon, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with "us", but not all of us care only about "new business" or passing judgment, a true Christian really does care about the individual in front of them. :kiss
Yes I realize that but unfortunately, I've met far more of the judgmental. Like I said, I grew up around this stuff, I'm up to my neck in it. And it's starting to get on my nerves.
As for how to answer it, saying "I'm going to hell" is a slap in the face. a mere "I don't care to discuss religion" should be enough. Then, if they don't let go, you can get rude
I get more guff for being a different race than I do for being a Christian.
The "I'm going to hell" part is usually delivered with a small laugh and it's meant to lighten the mood as well as steer the conversation away from religion. 99% of the folk get the message and realize that I'm not the one to engage in that sort of thing with so I don't think I've ever had to get rude. Fortunately, there are plenty of others on the staff who usually are available for them to trade Jesus talk with, this being the Bible belt and all.
=================== This one probably should be done on April 1st===
pt: "Are you saved?"
you: "I am sorry I can't tell you due to the new HIPPA regulation." (you can do it with a smile or in a real serious face).
pt: "What is HIPPA?"
you:"I'll get someone to explain that to you." (get your local HIPPA expert to talk and you probably will be killed afterwards by the HIPPA people).
====================
==================
pt: "Are you saved?"
you:"No, are you more comfortable with a nurse who is saved?" (if yes, see if you can change patient; maybe you get first dip at all the nonChristian patients).
Another thought. It is interesting to see the different spiritual realted problem in different parts of the country. In my area, our problem is actually the opposite you might say. We have so many different religious faiths that it is not that easy to minister to all of them in a meaningful way. We try really really hard and it is tough.
stevierae
1,085 Posts
I've heard that question from patients all over the country, off and on for over 30 years--with one exception: I have never been asked that question in the San Francisco Bay Area. People are too p.c. there, and the population is far too diverse. People could really care less what relgious beliefs you have.
But the people who DO ask this question always ask it rudely, in your face, almost shouting and apropos of nothing, catching you off guard by saying, usually: "HAVE YOU ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR?!" in a very aggressive, demanding, hostile tone. That's the part that really bothers me--they are so smug; so condescending in their manner.
I, personally, was raised Catholic and I practice both Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism. I will pray with a Catholic patient if he or she wants me to (I have even asked in surgery if they'd like me to say a prayer with them, or the Rosary on the floors, if I know they are Catholic) and I will say various Tibetan 3 or 6 line prayers with Tibetan Buddhists--same drill. I will even read from The Tibetan Book of the Dead for Buddhist patients, if I think it will comfort them (but only if they want me to.)
But if some busybody has the nerve to approach me demanding to know if I'm "saved" I will put a big smile on my face and say "Actually, I am a witch, and I practice Wicca" or "I am a Satanist. Have you ever heard of Anton Levay?"
Works every time. I'm sure they are shocked and will pray for what they believe is my hellbound soul, and probably start a prayer chain within their group of friends. At least they won't bug me anymore! Serves them right.
My brother does the same thing when Jehovah's Witnesses or those nice young clean cut LDS guys show up, uninvited, on his doorstep, which I think is a bit unnecessary--at least on the part of the young LDS men, who are merely carrying out their missions, and are not at all pushy. (The Jehovahs' Witnesses, however, are another story---I have literally had them wedge a foot in my door, to keep me from closing it.......)