Pt. nonresponsive on transfer to SNF

Nurses General Nursing

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I work in a rehab/LTC facility. I just have to tell yall about a patient I received last friday. I'm still in shock about it.

We were expecting this patient for strengthening and gait training.He is able to shower himself, dress himself but his dementia is progressing fast. He and his wife had made the decision to move him to an ALF and she was going to move in with him after selling their home, etc.

4 days after admit to the ALF, he and his wife both caught a horrid virus. He ended up in the hospital from the dehydration.

He has been monitored by a geriatric behaviour program for his dementia. has been stable on seroquel 25mg tid.

While in the hospital with the vomiting, diarrhea, and dehydration his confusion got real bad. they transferred him down to the geriatric psych unit. the ALF had sent him to this hospital due to closeness to their facility but his doctors are at another facility so these people knew nothing about him.

Due to the dehydration, etc. his confusion got worse, he became combative at times and agitated. While on the behavioral unit they increased his seroquel to 50mg tid and 100mg qHS. they didnt gradually increase it either...just did it.

when he couldnt/wouldnt take the seroquel they gave him IM Haldol and also had him on IV benadryl. they also had him restrained.

so his dehydration, etc had resolved, the diarrhea stopped so the hosp. told them they needed a SNF to get him stronger and back to his prior level of functioning before he could return to the ALF.

so on the day of transfer, I got no report from the hospital, and he just sorta showed up (happens all the time doesnt it?). Before the EMT's would transfer him from their stretcher they came to me and asked that i see him before they did. (im the suprvisor).

What I found was a completely nonresponsive male. not even responsive to a very hard sternal rub or other painful stimuli. I looke at the EMT's like "wth???". they took me out in the hall and told me that when they picked him up at the hospital they were shocked when they saw him. here they were supposed to be transferring him to a SNF for therapy and this man was totally nonresponsive. they told me that in front of the wife and daughter they asked the nurse to reassess him and told her they were not comfortable transferring him out of the hospital. the nurse refused to reassess him, told them he was "just sleeping due to the seroquel" and he was fine.

i went straight to the phone and called the nurse that had him and asked her for a report. she tells me that he is "just sedated" and if we were smart we'd keep him that way. she said he was very combative, "especially when you change his brief". I questionedher over and over on his condition and the fact that he was nonresponsive. Eventually I ended up talking to the charge nurse because the floor nurse got angry at me when i told her i couldsnt believe they had transferred him in this condition and that i was probably sending him right back via the ER.

so the charge gets on the phone and she tells me he's just sedated as well. she tells me "if you dont believe me, get your CNA to go in there and change his brief...that'll perk him up!". I'm like "omg, are you serious? this man is COMPLETELY nonresponsive!". she then says "well he was sleeping so we held his 2pm seroquel". geez. so i asked her exactly what meds he had had that day so that when i sent him to the ER i could relay that to them. she faxed me his mars for that day. he also takes dilantin for seizures.

i ended up talking to the nurse, the charge and the CNA that had him. seperately, they all told me the same story. "up until 2 days ago he was severly combative and had to be restrained". um...ok, what happened 2 days ago that made him change? "the seroquel kicked in" (i swear to all that's holy the charge nurse really said that)

i grab the administrator and go back to the room to talk to the wife and daughter. needless to say the wife was very aprehensive about sending him back to the hospital. she kept telling me "i told them 2 days ago something was wrong with him but the ywouldnt listen and just kept giving him drugs".

his VS were decent. i put o2 on him. his wife really didnt want to transfer him so i told her that we would CLOSELY monitor him until morning. at that time, i would draw a bunch of labwork and we could go from there. that way if it WAS the seroquel, he should be more alert. i also put all of his psych meds on hold. not that it really mattered becuase this man was out of it.

early the next morning i drew his labs and sent them to the hospital. the results? dilantin toxicity(45) and hypernatremia (165), BUN ~98.

i sent him straight to the hospital but not the one he came from.

he ended up in ICU as you can imagine. i spoke at length with the doc when he got there and he told me that he didnt think he would make it.

the whole thing has made me very angry. if I had transferred him to the ER like that, the hospital would have called CMS on us in a second!

they all said he'd had a change 2 days ago. his granddaughte is a neurologist at Emory and she questioned the doc at the hospital over the huge increase in seroquel but they kept telling her how combative he was and he "needed it". his wife said she hadnt left his side for 2 days and he kept getting worse and worse. their daughter told me that they had questioned the nurses and doctors for 2 days asking them what was wrong with him and they kept telling them it was the seroquel. they would shake him awake and pour the meds, mixed in liquid, in his mouth.

i told the charge nurse that the EMTs had asked the nurse to re-eval him prior to transfer and she refused saying "there aint nothing wrong with him, get him out of here". she said that in front of both EMTs, the wife and the daughter. when i told the charge that, she asked the nurse while i was on the phone. the nurse adamantly denied the conversation took place. i told the charge i wasnt going to call anyone a liar but that i had 4 people telling me the same exact story.

Can yall believe this? Can you believe that he was sent to a rehab facility in this condition? I am by no means perfect. I've missed things too. But, IMO, this was just a case of gross neglect. this is also the first time in my whole nursing career that i have ever said that about another facility. i'm still in shock over it.

His wife called me the next morning thanking me over and over for taking care of him. i spoke with the doc when he called to ask me some questions and he told me "you saved that man's life, i hope you know that".

What are your thoughts? Have yall ever had a patient transferred to you like this? What do you think about it?

Specializes in Rehab, Infection, LTC.

they sent him back to our facility yesterday. he's still basically nonresponsive. he's got a big ole case of encephalopathy from the dilantin toxicity. and that just makes me angry. sure he was confused but he and his wife had a few good years together yet probably. now they dont.

when i drew his labs this morning he didnt even flinch when i stuck him. but he did open his eyes and smile at his daughter for a second. thats more than he could do last weekend.

his wife told me "the doctors said it will take a while to get the seroquel out of his system". i asked her if she understood about his encephalopathy. she didnt. i made her cry and that made me mad too.

this whole thing is one big mess.

This is a horrible situation. But they are lucky to have someone like you on their side.

Specializes in Neuro ICU and Med Surg.
And I hate to say, I've seen combative dementia patients zonked just to make life easier for staff. Of course I've also been the admitting nurse doing the med reconcillitation and the Dr d/c-ing most of the psych meds because the patient is on two or three of the exact same drug...but thats a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

But when you have attentive family like it seems he had, there was no excuse for not checking labs at the very least just to CYA. I still can't believe they blew off the daughter who was a neurologist....talk about cajones.

I cannot believe the family was so totally blown off like that. Thank God you did send him to the hospital. Really terrible.

Specializes in Neuro ICU and Med Surg.

Good thing you sent him back to the hospital. Glad it wasn't the one he came from either.

Specializes in Neuro ICU and Med Surg.

I received a dead pt from the ER one time. I was working med surg and report was called about a 80'something woman from the ER. She was coming from a SNF. She was admitted for pneumonia. VSS per report. She showed up about 1&1/2 hours later. She didn't look right so I went in immeidately, as the transporters put her into bed. I started to assess her. I touched her and she was ICE COLD. I checked her pulses and called a code. We coded her, but she came back with pupils fixed and dilated. The family was called and they wanted all efforts stopped. So we extubated her and let her go. I called the ER to tell them what had happened and the charge nurse refused to speak with me. So I spoke with the doc that treated her, and he told me that she would have went to the ICU except she was a no code. There was no paper work filled out. I informed him that he had sent me a dead pt. The IV they sent her up with was bad too, so I had to start another one in the middle of the code. I couldn't believe it. Don't they look at the pt before they send them up.

Sorry for the hijack. Back to our regulary scheduled thread.

Wow...unfortunatly, I saw something like that happen a while ago.

PT was A and O with mild forgetfullness, but made all needs known. Normally got a vicodin 2 times a day (am and hs) also got an ambien at night. She had neuropathy and phantom stump pain. Other hx included a renal failure (not being tx). She started to complain of an increase in pain that normally meant she needed a vicodin at dinner. Instead, some nurse got Roxinal ordered for her since it was decided that her kidney function was worseing and must have ment "she is dying"

The Roxinal made her halucinate and moan...to a few nurses, that meant she was in more pain so they gave her more and more and upped the dose and started her on SL ativan for the agitation.

Remember this was an A and O lady...she started talking about dying now...became lethargic at times.....Did anyone call her son and let him know of these changes or ask about the start of these new meds???? NO! The other weekend nurse (been there for years but only works weekends) asked me about her change in condition that just happened so rapidly over the week and wondered why we went from 1-2 vicodin to Roxinal and Ativan RTC???

Ended up needing some narcan and fluids due to the fact that she was out of it all week and didn't eat or drink.

A year later....she is certainly alive, visiting with family and a very active resident in our LTC.

Makes you wonder...what if????

:up: excellent work..u deserve all the praises :bow:
Specializes in LTC.

You did a wonderful job! Thank goodness this patient had you and the EMTs as advocates!

southernbee, this is called "patient-dumping", where a facility will provide minimal care to a difficult pt, while desperately trying to find another facility to take him/her.

whatever the reasons are (insurance issues, pt or family dynamics), there are hospitals that provide abhorrent care and basically dump them to another facility.

i don't understand how or even if, these facilities get away with it.

but it happens, and it happens too often.

all i can say, is thank you God, for southernbee and her impassioned set of values and ethics.

leslie

Specializes in Rehab, Infection, LTC.

patient dumping. i've heard of it but this was my first time seeing it.

my husband says i'm out to right all the injustices of the world. i cant help it! call me naive if you want but how do these people sleep at night????

my brain just cant wrap itself around how people...nurses and doctors....can just not care!

people trust us. they put their lives in our hands everyday with the trust that we will do the next right thing and take care of them. we are nurses for God's sake! we promised to do no harm!

how do they justify just dumping a patient off like that?

i swear sometimes i wish i'd never left my bookeeping job....

Specializes in Rehab, Infection, LTC.

I thought I'd give yall an update.

The patient was in the hospital for about a week and then came back to us. He is stable but the effects of the sedation and dilantin toxicity have left him virtually bed bound at the present time. I'm praying with time that he will do better cognitively.

He will more than likely have to be transferred to an ICF place for LTC.

His family is very grateful for us. they are suing the hospital that sent him to us originally.

I thought I'd give yall an update.

The patient was in the hospital for about a week and then came back to us. He is stable but the effects of the sedation and dilantin toxicity have left him virtually bed bound at the present time. I'm praying with time that he will do better cognitively.

He will more than likely have to be transferred to an ICF place for LTC.

His family is very grateful for us. they are suing the hospital that sent him to us originally.

I hope he gets better too. I'm sure they will be eternally grateful to you and your facility. Unfortunately it sounds like they have a good case against the hospital, but I'd bet they'd rather just have him healthy again. :crying2:

My hubby says I'm out to fight the world's injustices as well. I wouldn't have it any other way. Someone needs to take a stand when things go wrong.

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