i'll probably get flamed to the moon and back for this but..

[elijahvegas]

does anyone else get tired of hearing (from other SNAs/hopefuls/vets) what we nurses are "suppose" to be like ?

i read through thread after thread of how if you're not "compassionate to the core" and "really into nursing" and all this other stuff, you won't do well in the program or as a nurse in general.

is it really that big of a deal that some use the profession as a fallback option, or as a way to get by while trying to pursue something they'd really wanna be doing, without having to work something that provides just above minimum wage to make ends meet ?

i often hear people being scolded because their "heart" isn't in nursing, and for taking a seat away from others who "really" want to be there. Are any of us less deserving because we went through the same prereqs as everyone else but were competitive enough to actually secure a seat ? Is this something i should apologize for ? Should we be barred from applying simply because we have different prospects for the horizon ? Say med school ? or a field outside of healthcare altogether ?

Is it wrong to consider this profession a job ? one in which i will do my best to do well as i would with any other endeavor ? I go in with an attitude to make sure all of my duties are done, everyone is accounted for, and everything is the way it should be from the time i arrive until the time i clock out. Does it make me a bad nurse that i don't cry with a patient when they're going through a hard time ? Please dont take this as an implication as me directing negative or rude comments towards the patient. I'm attentive, and consoling, but i'd rather not have my emotions tie me up in knots to the point where i start to make clinical errors, which in the end is truly the most important thing to me.

Don't mind me, just my Tuesday morning rant for the day. I'm curious to see who else feels like this. I know im the minority but i can't be the only one

[SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS]

Back when I was in high school and considering career paths, there was an ad campaign from Johnson & Johnson --they used to play the commercials during China Beach, and this combination led me to apply to nursing school (true story). The line was, "If caring were enough, anyone could be a nurse." Yes, you do have to care about doing your job to the best of your ability, and that ability better be adequate. You have to be invested in your patients' outcomes. But your heart doesn't have to bleed for your patients. In fact, I don't think it should. We need to remain objective.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Esme12 I wish you would come and work with me on our RRT team. You would be a perfect fit and we would have a BLAST!

I am afraid I fall into that camp. Judging by the new grads, from all kinds of programs, we have been getting in the last 5-7 years nursing education IS being watered down. It so annoying to me when I am expected to teach such poorly prepared grads. Instead of focusing on what they should be learning we first have to learn the cranial nerves, basic patho, and basic skills like assessments, lab values, ABGs, IV skills, etc. I didn't used to have to teach new grads cranial nerves or basic skills.

It shows in the length of our new grads orientation. It's getting longer and longer all the time because they come to use knowing less and less. Hard to concentrate on critical thinking and seeing the whole picture when you have to first learn the basics that should have been taught in nursing school. The ADN grads do seem slightly, but only slightly, better prepared than the BSN and DE MSN grads. It is frustrating. IV skills is a good example. I do not expect any new grad to be skilled in placing IVs, but I do expect them to have an understanding of how to do it and to have done it a few times, at least on a dummy arm. Most importantly I expect them to know what size IV would be appropriate for what patients and to at least know what IV fluids would be appropriate / inappropriate for patients with their diagnosis (D5W for the stroke with cerebral edema anyone?), know the difference between crystalloids and colloids etc, isotonic, hypertonic and so on. I didn't used to have to teach these things. A&P is another. How nurses graduate without being able to explain blood flow through the heart and the names of the heart valves, or be able to tell me the cranial nerves is amazing to me.

I never considered nursing UNTIL, after being wounded in the army as a combat medic in the field, they sent me to work in an army hospital where I worked for and with army nurse corps officers. They opened my eyes to the potential of the profession and how much one could accomplish personally and for others as an RN.

I would like to add that most of those amazing nurse corps officers where reserve officers with ADNs, the regular army officers with BSN having mostly been deployed at that time.

We probably would....I'm a hard core old time nurse with a wicked sense of humor and the chops of a ED/trauma nurse from the Southside of Chicago and downtown Gary, Indiana. I have endless compassion and skills, I can start an IV upside down in a car during a blizzard and pull you from the jaws of death...I will hold your hand but I don't take anyone's crap.....

Like I said in my post.... While I believe that there are serious flaws in the current curriculum in SOME programs and the education for the bedside nurse is being watered down to purposely favor "advanced degrees".... my personal journey from years ago was very different.

I am disappointed in the current curriculum's in todays programs and I feel they are being purposely watered down to force the subject of BSN/MSN as entry education. That teaching assessment skills like percussion/palpation are meant for the "advanced degrees" and are not for the "bedside nurse" to learn...which is complete and utter nonsense....this is simply to promote the APRN by making the bedside RN obsolete.

I am disappointed in the powers that be who are allowing this to occur...they are going to educate themselves right out of the bedside....shame on them.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

We probably would....I'm a hard core old time nurse with a wicked sense of humor and the chops of a ED/trauma nurse from the Southside of Chicago and downtown Gary, Indiana. I have endless compassion and skills, I can start an IV upside down in a car during a blizzard and pull you from the jaws of death...I will hold your hand but I don't take anyone's crap..... Like I said in my post....

While I believe that there are serious flaws in the current curriculum in SOME programs and the education for the bedside nurse is being watered down to purposely favor "advanced degrees".... my personal journey from years ago was very different.

I am disappointed in the current curriculum's in todays programs and I feel they are being purposely watered down to force the subject of BSN/MSN as entry education. That teaching assessment skills like percussion/palpation are meant for the "advanced degrees" and are not for the "bedside nurse" to learn...which is complete and utter nonsense....this is simply to promote the APRN by making the bedside RN obsolete. I am disappointed in the powers that be who are allowing this to occur...they are going to educate themselves right out of the bedside....shame on them.

I personally want to know what schools are watering down education...seriously. I was taught and it was an unspoken agreement learn a head to toe assessment; assessment curriculum included palpating, cranial nerve assessment, you name it, we had to know, and best BELIEVE we needed to know and perform it in clinical. Maybe it is my area having some influence on having major 4 major teaching institutions in the area; making sure new grads are prepared; or it could've been the fortune of having this type of education, I'll never know. But it would be something on my list professionally and in semi-retirement: education reform.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I personally want to know what schools are watering down education...seriously.

I was taught and it was an unspoken agreement learn a head to toe assessment; assessment curriculum included palpating, cranial nerve assessment, you name it, we had to know, and best BELIEVE we needed to know and perform it in clinical. Maybe it is my area having some influence on making sure new grads are prepared; or it could've been the fortune of having this type of education, I'll never know.

But it would be something on my list in semi-retirement: education reform.

This where the reform comes

I even see here on AN from the students...programs that don't have a pharmacology class. NO pharmacology class?? what the heck??

That the assessment classes don't always include all of the necessary assessment techniques. I have even heard from clinical instructors with the students that percussion of the lungs/abdomen as "advanced assessment techniques" and have admonished me for showing them at the bedside. It is becoming more apparent in the last 3-5 years.

I find it surprising that they are not given more information about the legalities of nursing and HIPAA. I had a complete semester as well as a complete semester on the Nurse Practice act in the state I studied. My science class were with all the other science pre-med students and not "down sized" for a nursing program. I have found an ever increasing shrinkage of clinical knowledge and experience with the new grads that are overwhelmed by basic nursing tasks.

It never ceases to amaze me when new grad tells me that they never put in a foley after 4 years of college.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

I even see here on AN from the students...programs that don't have a pharmacology class. NO pharmacology class?? what the heck?? That the assessment classes don't always include all of the necessary assessment techniques. I have even heard from clinical instructors with the students that percussion of the lungs/abdomen as "advanced assessment techniques" and have admonished me for showing them at the bedside. It is becoming more apparent in the last 3-5 years. I find it surprising that they are not given more information about the legalities of nursing and HIPAA. I had a complete semester as well as a complete semester on the Nurse Practice act in the state I studied. My science class were with all the other science pre-med students and not "down sized" for a nursing program. I have found an ever increasing shrinkage of clinical knowledge and experience with the new grads that are overwhelmed by basic nursing tasks. It never ceases to amaze me when new grad tells me that they never put in a foley after 4 years of college.

Not good.

DEFINTELY time for reform; no pharm class sounds and that is just unacceptable.

I think there is also a disconnect with some students who are looking 5 years down the road and are not taking advantage of their clinical practicum as well; but that is just a :no:, it's hurting new grads and generations of nurses that will eventually be needed.

[Guest757854]

LOL...I've been a nurse approximately 8 years and have lasted longer than many of the righteous people who claim to have entered the profession for all the 'right' reasons.'

Same here!!! I graduated with 55 LPN 8yrs ago and half have left and went to another field. Totally unrelated to nursing! Some people enter this field for the "great pay" and the "job security" only to fool themselves once they start working. And I just sit back and shake my head.

[msn10]

I am disappointed in the current curriculum's in todays programs and I feel they are being purposely watered down to force the subject of BSN/MSN as entry education.

Interesting comment. I think a big problem right now with too many students (Not all) in any program in school is the lack of student accountability. I am amazed at the number of students who want to be spoon fed. Like you Esme12 and PMFB-RN, I went to school when we had to read the whole book and not just expect our teacher to come up with a Power Point that provided all the answers. I think part of the watering down process is a direct result of catering to the students who do the minimum when we should be only admitting students who are serious. Even in the most competitive university we have in town (we have 10 nursing schools in a 50 mile radius) the students aren't as serious as I think they should be.

[Mn nurse 22]

It takes all kinds, I have been a patient and I am a nurse. As a patient I am looking for efficiency, knowledge and expertise, not necessarily someone to hold my hand or give me a hug. As a nurse I try to learn what my patients are looking for. I worked as a waitress for many years before nursing so customer service has always been part of my $$$.

An efficient knowledgable nurse can probably get away without being outwardly compassionate, and a caring compassionate nurse can probably get away with not being as efficient, and a lot of nurses can do all of the above very well.

to the OP, please take your time in school to learn everything you can about nursing, and think about why you would want to "get a flaming response" from all the professionals who take their time on these boards to answer anyone's questions.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Interesting comment. I think a big problem right now with too many students (Not all) in any program in school is the lack of student accountability. I am amazed at the number of students who want to be spoon fed. Like you Esme12 and PMFB-RN, I went to school when we had to read the whole book and not just expect our teacher to come up with a Power Point that provided all the answers. I think part of the watering down process is a direct result of catering to the students who do the minimum when we should be only admitting students who are serious. Even in the most competitive university we have in town (we have 10 nursing schools in a 50 mile radius) the students aren't as serious as I think they should be.

I think this is a problem as well....I know my daughter is going thorough the admissions process right now. I am stunned there are NO interviews at schools in our area. I think that when a nursing candidate is close like a 3.78 and a 3.77 the 3.78 should not be the automatic entry just because they have the tenth point advantage on paper. Nursing is on a weird path right now. Some of the BSN programs where I live accept only incoming freshman...so if you don't get in as a high school grad at 18 you may never apply to the program ever again. That a high school honor student, honor society, HOSA amongst, mission group for church that repair homes for the needy/elderly every summer in Maine..... many other things.... might have difficulty getting into a program baffles my mind.

We just had a school increase the SAT requirement mid application review...now she is taking the SAT again next week (which I don't understand that if you take the same test 6 times and finally get 1760 and the student that did 1760 first try is weighed the same makes me ANGRY) What the HECK is that????????????

Just like taking boards 6 times...what is that???

[lub dub]

im still currently certified as a paramedic, but i took a hiatus from work to give nursing school my full effort.

there i learned a handful of skillsets that in a hospital setting pretty much docs are only allowed to do (well technically speaking, docs are the only ones that are allowed to do anything without anyone elses discretion, another minor peeve of mine) but out on the field.

thats somewhat where this post extends from. im constantly feeling like the bad nurse because im more preoccupied with treating the patient rather than babying the patient.

Now it all makes sense to me. You're a paramedic, so you're used to doing "doctor's work", & not "nurse's work", which you believe is "babying the patient".

Good luck with that...

[lub dub]

Interesting comment. I think a big problem right now with too many students (Not all) in any program in school is the lack of student accountability. I am amazed at the number of students who want to be spoon fed. Like you Esme12 and PMFB-RN, I went to school when we had to read the whole book and not just expect our teacher to come up with a Power Point that provided all the answers. I think part of the watering down process is a direct result of catering to the students who do the minimum when we should be only admitting students who are serious. Even in the most competitive university we have in town (we have 10 nursing schools in a 50 mile radius) the students aren't as serious as I think they should be.

^This!!! You rule, msn10!

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

You fell WHICH way wholeheartedly. On the right hand corner of each post, you'll see a little rectangle that says "QUOTE". If you click on that, you'll be quoting the post you agree with, and everyone will understand.

things seem to go not my way when im replying from a phone. sorry about that