President Biden thread

2 hours ago, Tweety said:

Everyone has their own definition I suppose.  

Personally I would give up some "freedom" for clean air, for less death and destruction from guns, and for health care and a safety net.  All the countries on this list have those.    https://www.currenciesdirect.com/en/news/currency-news/countries-with-the-best-quality-of-life-in-2021

I love America and wouldn't live anywhere else but I wouldn't say we have a good standard of living compared to many countries.  Our gun violence alone I think destroys that idea.  

I don't like the conservatives idea of freedom either.  It means the freedom to pollute, the freedom of "self defense", the freedom to discriminate against LBGT persons, the freedom to make voting difficult, on and on.  

 

Indeed.  I think that's why it's important to have discussion and challenge each other's perspectives and thinking.  Many of these troublesome terms evolve in meaning over time.  Take "infrastructure" for instance.  The term is actually quite broad. 

Definition of infrastructure

1: the system of public works of a country, state, or regionalso : the resources (such as personnel, buildings, or equipment) required for an activity

2: the underlying foundation or basic framework (as of a system or organization)

3: the permanent installations required for military purposes. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infrastructure

It is reasonable to anticipate that infrastructure will include caring services for children and elders because women are an essential portion of the work force and they require that support. It is unreasonable to refuse to modernize thinking in these areas, IMV. I would argue that our essential infrastructure investment began to slow in the 1970s and shrank in the 1990s with an attitude of austerity that persists today, particularly among social conservatives.  One of the ways that the austerity is maintained is by insisting upon outdated, inadequate and/or narrow definitions of terms or ideas.  Our conservative politicians allow us to spend about 2.5% of GDP on infrastructure.  Our European allies invest roughly twice that. 

Ultimately, that reluctance to invest in ourselves is a short sighted folly that leaves us increasingly vulnerable, unhappy and stressed. 

https://www.brookings.edu/research/shifting-into-an-era-of-repair-us-infrastructure-spending-trends/

31 minutes ago, Beerman said:

That's painting all conservatives with a pretty broad stroke, and looking at all those things in the most negative way possible.

I want clean air and water.  I've never shot a gun, but certainly want the bad guys to know that good guys may also have them.  There are extremists, but almost if not every person I know doesnt want discrimination against anyone.  Making voting difficult is a rediculous notion.  Its never been easier then it is now.  I want one vote per person and for elections to be fair and legitimate.

 

 

I don't agree.  I think he's describing the conservative political agenda as it is implemented rather than how it is marketed. The election of 2020 was a free and fair election according to all measures and yet all manner of new election laws are being forwarded by conservatives across the nation. There is no reason to enact new laws to prevent in person voter fraud when that is not a problem to be solved in any precinct in the nation. Does the constitutional right to vote require additional restriction or limitation? Why not expand voting hours and make it easier to cast a vote?

10 hours ago, Beerman said:

Less freedoms can't equate to a higher standard of living, imo.

What freedoms would you miss in say, London or Paris, that you don't have here and why would you miss them?   

7 hours ago, Beerman said:

That's painting all conservatives with a pretty broad stroke, and looking at all those things in the most negative way possible.

I want clean air and water.  I've never shot a gun, but certainly want the bad guys to know that good guys may also have them.  There are extremists, but almost if not every person I know doesnt want discrimination against anyone.  Making voting difficult is a rediculous notion.  Its never been easier then it is now.  I want one vote per person and for elections to be fair and legitimate.

 

 

If discrimination bothers you then why follow a party that protects people like MTG who speaks for Q, Pizzagate and Jewish space lasers?  I, too, have  concerns about sending out unsolicited ballots because I'm not sure how that could be safe (but if anybody knows how that works, please comment).  But since I desire a one vote per person system and for everyone's vote to count, I couldn't back up a party that doesn't wish that system to prevail.  I have a LOT of qualms about the Dems but they aren't overtly evil; they just struggle with disagreements amongst the ranks.  But the AOC people who make my teeth grind might be the harbingers of the will of the next generation.  The world they are going to age in will be extremely different than the world I grew up in and their needs from the government might be different than mine.  Who am I to criticize what they are expressing?  Doesn't mean I have to like them or turn Republican.

1 hour ago, subee said:

11 hours ago, Beerman said:

Less freedoms can't equate to a higher standard of living, imo.

What freedoms would you miss in say, London or Paris, that you don't have here and why would you miss them?

I had the same question.

However, as Curious1997 posted the original comment, this question would be best directed to him.

1 hour ago, subee said:

If discrimination bothers you then why follow a party that protects people like MTG who speaks for Q, Pizzagate and Jewish space lasers? ...

It might surprise you to hear this, but not all Republicans are Trump supporters.

If I were to refer to all Democrats as radical leftists based on the actions of the Squad, it would be as false, and wrong for me to do, as this.

1 hour ago, chare said:

It might surprise you to hear this, but not all Republicans are Trump supporters.

If I were to refer to all Democrats as radical leftists based on the actions of the Squad, it would be as false, and wrong for me to do, as this.

Yeah. Liz Cheney says the same thing.  What percentage of republicans are now conservative but not Trump supporters, in your opinion? You aren't a Trump supporter, but are Trump supporters are in control of your political party...at both the local and national level? 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-republicans-view-trump-true-us-president-reutersipsos-2021-05-24/

Do you see this as a terminal fracturing of the Republican party? I do.  I think that the Trump led Republican party will die or our republic will die, or possibly both could be destroyed by Trumpublicans.   The Trump led republican party destroys our constitutional systems to advance the obsessions of one man, it's un-American as hell and it's more than alarming that so many are reluctant to see it. 

Are true conservatives going to fight for the country or the party, do you think? 

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

... You aren't a Trump supporter, but are Trump supporters are in control of your political party...at both the local and national level? 

[...]

Unfortunately I think they are.  And I'm having a difficult time understanding why.  I know he's threatened to primary sitting candidates that he believes weren't loyal.  As I believe his PAC has raised slightly more than the Republican party, I suppose this can be concerning to some.  And, some believe he is going to return to office in 2024 and are hoping to ride his coattails.  I would have thought this unlikely, but when you consider the 53% that believe the election was stolen from him, I guess not.

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

[...]

Do you see this as a terminal fracturing of the Republican party? ...

[...]

Quite possibly.  I believe I've read that Mr. Trump has no plans to form a third party.  And I've read, and posted the link previously, of the moderate numbers of Republicans that have left, or are planning to leave the party.  At least one of these articles suggested that they are not joining the Democratic party.  In my opinion I think it would be best if the anti-Trumpers leave.

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

[...]

... I think that the Trump led Republican party will die or our republic will die, or possibly both could be destroyed by Trumpublicans. ...

[...]

Agree somewhat with your first comment.  As for the republic dying, I don't think so, although I think it definitely is going to change.  Whether for the better or worse remains to be seen.

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

[...]

Are true conservatives going to fight for the country or the party, do you think? 

While I like to think that the true conservatives are going to step up and do the right thing, I honestly don't know.

47 minutes ago, chare said:

Unfortunately I think they are.  And I'm having a difficult time understanding why.  I know he's threatened to primary sitting candidates that he believes weren't loyal.  As I believe his PAC has raised slightly more than the Republican party, I suppose this can be concerning to some.  And, some believe he is going to return to office in 2024 and are hoping to ride his coattails.  I would have thought this unlikely, but when you consider the 53% that believe the election was stolen from him, I guess not.

Quite possibly.  I believe I've read that Mr. Trump has no plans to form a third party.  And I've read, and posted the link previously, of the moderate numbers of Republicans that have left, or are planning to leave the party.  At least one of these articles suggested that they are not joining the Democratic party.  In my opinion I think it would be best if the anti-Trumpers leave.

Agree somewhat with your first comment.  As for the republic dying, I don't think so, although I think it definitely is going to change.  Whether for the better or worse remains to be seen.

While I like to think that the true conservatives are going to step up and do the right thing, I honestly don't know.

I would argue that Trumpublicans are right this very minute undermining free and fair elections while pretending that Trump didn't try to maintain power on January 6 with an angry mob at the capitol.  Other elected republicans are throwing around talk of 2nd amendment remedies and secession of conservative states. Elected republicans have to avoid speaking specific truths about the election lies out loud lest they anger Trump and get primaried by a miniTrumper.  I would argue that all of these actions are a deep and direct threat to our republic.  

7 hours ago, chare said:

I had the same question.

However, as Curious1997 posted the original comment, this question would be best directed to him.

I did direct the question to Beerman in post:)  And I might has well add comment to your later post that all Republicans are not Trumpists.  Where did I ever say they were?  In fact, I have lamented the fall of the Republican party as a necessary counter balance to the Dems.  I remember the gentle conservatism of John Lindsey and Nelson Rockefeller but this isn't the pack of beasts that run the party today.  So no, I'm not kindly disposed to them anymore...ever.  I will be dead before they reconstruct themselves.  The disease has gotten too severe to be eradicated.

2 hours ago, subee said:

I did direct the question to Beerman in post:)  And I might has well add comment to your later post that all Republicans are not Trumpists.  Where did I ever say they were?  In fact, I have lamented the fall of the Republican party as a necessary counter balance to the Dems.  I remember the gentle conservatism of John Lindsey and Nelson Rockefeller but this isn't the pack of beasts that run the party today.  So no, I'm not kindly disposed to them anymore...ever.  I will be dead before they reconstruct themselves.  The disease has gotten too severe to be eradicated.

Curious, thinks that Mitch Mcturtle is going to do the same thing to Biden as he did to Obama. 

Five months from now, one year from now, who knows what's going to happen in the world or here in America, and the popularity that Biden now has, will vanish like Trump's toupee' and then he won't have the opportunity to do anything! 

Obama the proud, in the first two years sucked up to the republicans and they loved stymieing his agenda. Alongside the recession, he should have stacked the Supreme Court and removed citizens united, but he needed his name in neon lights. Obamacare! That's the republicans, done and dusted! No more gerrymandering or voter suppression without corporate funds! Koch, Adelson, Theil, DONE! 

We have extremely vain and unpatriotic politicians! Why? MONEY! 

Speakers circuit, corporate boards, it's never enough! And it's not like they have enough of an education to do anything good with the money, except buy things and stoke their egos? Idiots! We breed them like flies!!