President Biden thread

toomuchbaloney said:

That abortion bans abuse women is my opinion...

and yet you give no grace to someone that thinks abortion bans save babies and might have arrived at that through intelligent thought rather than propaganda.  That's all I'm saying.  You don't have to sell me your opinion (I didn't read it).

Tweety said:

and yet you give no grace to someone that thinks abortion bans save babies and might have arrived at that through intelligent thought rather than propaganda.  That's all I'm saying.  You don't have to sell me your opinion (I didn't read it).

That's because there's no evidence that abortion bans save babies but there is lots evidence that women suffer directly because of the bans. I call that suffering abuse.  I don't need you to say anything about that.  You know there's no evidence or facts to support the right wing angst about abortion after 20 weeks. What kind of grace am I obligated to show to someone who is repeating lies and propaganda about abortion? I show them grace by calling them a victim of propaganda rather than identifying them as a liar and propagandist. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt... assuming that they are victims of indoctrinated thinking rather than intentionally spreading misinformation. You don't have to agree.  

I'm not selling anything, I'm defending my stance on a discussion board, with facts, evidence, citations and my words and thoughts.  That's what people typically do when their comments are challenged in a forum.  

Thank you for being honest about not reading my comments.  Did you say that in the hopes that it would discourage me from sharing my thoughts and opinions here?  It won't, but I do wonder what the motivation was to add that part.  

toomuchbaloney said:

That's because there's no evidence that abortion bans save babies but there is lots evidence that women suffer directly because of the bans. I call that suffering abuse.  I don't need you to say anything about that.  You know there's no evidence or facts to support the right wing angst about abortion after 20 weeks. What kind of grace am I obligated to show to someone who is repeating lies and propaganda about abortion? I show them grace by calling them a victim of propaganda rather than identifying them as a liar and propagandist. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt... assuming that they are victims of indoctrinated thinking rather than intentionally spreading misinformation. You don't have to agree.  

I'm not selling anything, I'm defending my stance on a discussion board, with facts, evidence, citations and my words and thoughts.  That's what people typically do when their comments are challenged in a forum.  

Thank you for being honest about not reading my comments.  Did you say that in the hopes that it would discourage me from sharing my thoughts and opinions here?  It won't, but I do wonder what the motivation was to add that part.  

I know from years of interacting with you that nothing I or anyone else says,  discourages you from posting and that wasn't my objective.  

There's evidence coming out that abortions have dropped here in Florida for residents.  I'm too lazy to link to it because I'm having lunch, but the 6 week ban just started in May so it's way too soon to come up with evidence.  So if abortions have dropped that either means women are carrying them to full term (saving the baby's life) or avoiding pregnancy altogether.  

On a side note, I have read that in some demographics STDs are even dropping after Roe vs. Wade was ended as young people are having more responsible sex to avoid pregnancy and thus disease.  I guess now is the time to invest in condom makers as they are going gangbusters.  Not my demographic however since we can't get pregnant we're still supposedly spreading STD's.  

I don't think that it's that much of a stretch that abortion bans are about saving babies rather than controlling women (by old white men) as left wing rhetoric claims.  For some people, my aunt for example, that's exactly what it's about since they feel abortion is killing a baby.  

(Like I've said, I do wish they show the same concern for poverty stricken children or victims of gun violence but that's a deflection that I'm making.)

toomuchbaloney said:

That's because there's no evidence that abortion bans save babies but there is lots evidence that women suffer directly because of the bans. I call that suffering abuse.  I don't need you to say anything about that.  You know there's no evidence or facts to support the right wing angst about abortion after 20 weeks. What kind of grace am I obligated to show to someone who is repeating lies and propaganda about abortion? I show them grace by calling them a victim of propaganda rather than identifying them as a liar and propagandist. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt... assuming that they are victims of indoctrinated thinking rather than intentionally spreading misinformation. You don't have to agree.  

I'm not selling anything, I'm defending my stance on a discussion board, with facts, evidence, citations and my words and thoughts.  That's what people typically do when their comments are challenged in a forum.  

Thank you for being honest about not reading my comments.  Did you say that in the hopes that it would discourage me from sharing my thoughts and opinions here?  It won't, but I do wonder what the motivation was to add that part.  

Baloney 

You have on several occasions suggested I was allot more than just a "liar". 

Your bias has gotten you in a tissy.  I have never said that there are several or even few abortions in later trimester for other that severe health threats to the women. What I did say is there is no republican Bill that expressly prohibits a woman from an abortion to save her life or who's health is severely in peril.or any that will Turn the US into the fantasy fiction(Perhaps victim porn) of radical feminist "Handmaid's Tale" if Trump is elected.  This is the far left propaganda you spout.   Not once have I made the claim you said.  please provide evidence to the contrary. 

Perhaps I should clear up your confusion and feeling about what it is I believe and don't believe? 

The Texas abortion bill is too restrictive and needs clarification on its terms. I do not support the Texas Bill for the risk it may put women in. Or the confusion it may cause Dr's. (However I'm hard pressed that a Dr would be confused if a woman has sepsis or not). 

I think the New Yourk bill is too vague and as it stands could lead to terminate in late pregnancy for other than risk to a woman's health. "Health" being up for interpretation "  I also think that it's up to New York the state and Texas the state. Neither sould impose on eachother. 

If pur leader fail, then more women will be at risk and some babies as well. Neither are acceptable.  

please tell me how this "abused women". ? 

Tweety said:

Not quite what Crusades said "diseased fetus who has turned septic." but clearly physicians there understood she needed a medically necessary abortion but wouldn't provide it because of constraints by their laws.  

Then these laws need to be modified and formatted to prevent this type of situation.  I think you know Tweety that I am not in any agreement for abortion laws that will cause a situation like this.  

Tweety said:

I know from years of interacting with you that nothing I or anyone else says,  discourages you from posting and that wasn't my objective.  

There's evidence coming out that abortions have dropped here in Florida for residents.  I'm too lazy to link to it because I'm having lunch, but the 6 week ban just started in May so it's way too soon to come up with evidence.  So if abortions have dropped that either means women are carrying them to full term (saving the baby's life) or avoiding pregnancy altogether.  

On a side note, I have read that in some demographics STDs are even dropping after Roe vs. Wade was ended as young people are having more responsible sex to avoid pregnancy and thus disease.  I guess now is the time to invest in condom makers as they are going gangbusters.  Not my demographic however since we can't get pregnant we're still supposedly spreading STD's.  

I don't think that it's that much of a stretch that abortion bans are about saving babies rather than controlling women (by old white men) as left wing rhetoric claims.  For some people, my aunt for example, that's exactly what it's about since they feel abortion is killing a baby.  

(Like I've said, I do wish they show the same concern for poverty stricken children or victims of gun violence but that's a deflection that I'm making.)

I 100% agree that the 6 week ban is not feasible or appropriate.  I was well over 6 weeks before I knew I was pregnant. I have 4 children and at the time didn't have any barriers to taking them to term. 

I did once though. I was in my late 30s and my birthcontrol method failed. I was seeing a man who I found out had molested my 12 year old daughter. I would have kept the pregnancy had it not been for what he did to my daughter. 

How could I have a child who would possibly be forced to visit their dad who molested his/her sister? Since the circumstances did not support a criminal charge? 

How would my 12 yr old daughter live with this child who's father molested her? 

How would I manage making parenting decisions with a man who molested my daughter ? How would I not worry when this man took partial custody? 

I had an abortion at 6 weeks. I took the abortion pill. Was it the right decisions?  I don't know. Doesn't always feel like it . It wasn't the babies fault. Do I have regrets? Absolutely.  

I'm not sure what I would have done if I found out when I was over 6 weeks. I imagine I would have found a way. 

So the accusation by another member that I "abuse women" and have no empathy for them is complete hogwash BALONEY.  

toomuchbaloney said:

Crusades is simply repeating the right wing propaganda that they've been fed in their media bubble.  They are a victim of manipulation just like millions of others who have been convinced that restricting abortion saves babies rather than abuses women. 

I 

Tweety said:

I disagree.   Otherwise the same can be said of you swallowing left-wing propaganda that restricting abortion "abuses women".  

 

Yes. The "abuse women" claim is as foolish as saying the left want to "kill babies". Both straight out of the propaganda garbage can. 

Crusades said:

I 

 

Yes. The "abuse women" claim is as foolish as saying the left want to "kill babies". Both straight out of the propaganda garbage can. 

Crusades said:

I 100% agree that the 6 week ban is not feasible or appropriate.  I was well over 6 weeks before I knew I was pregnant. I have 4 children and at the time didn't have any barriers to taking them to term. 

I did once though. I was in my late 30s and my birthcontrol method failed. I was seeing a man who I found out had molested my 12 year old daughter. I would have kept the pregnancy had it not been for what he did to my daughter. 

How could I have a child who would possibly be forced to visit their dad who molested his/her sister? Since the circumstances did not support a criminal charge? 

How would my 12 yr old daughter live with this child who's father molested her? 

How would I manage making parenting decisions with a man who molested my daughter ? How would I not worry when this man took partial custody? 

I had an abortion at 6 weeks. I took the abortion pill. Was it the right decisions?  I don't know. Doesn't always feel like it . It wasn't the babies fault. Do I have regrets? Absolutely.  

I'm not sure what I would have done if I found out when I was over 6 weeks. I imagine I would have found a way. 

So the accusation by another member that I "abuse women" and have no empathy for them is complete hogwash BALONEY.  

I respect you for sharing that personal story. I also appreciate Tweety's comments. 

Being unaffiliated politically moderate-ish, pro-life personally,  I usually feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines and the kind of accusations and mischaracterizations of people with opposing viewpoints is really sad hear. 

Crusades said:

I 

 

Yes. The "abuse women" claim is as foolish as saying the left want to "kill babies". Both straight out of the propaganda garbage can. 

I agree, but TMB made his case for women being abused by abortion bans.  But the idea that abortion bans are set up to abuse women, doesn't quite site right with me, anymore than those who are pro-abortion are baby murderers.

I'm sorry you had to go through that.  Someone in my family chose abortion and it was agonizing.

mtmkjr said:

 

I respect you for sharing that personal story. I also appreciate Tweety's comments. 

Being unaffiliated politically moderate-ish, pro-life personally,  I usually feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines and the kind of accusations and mischaracterizations of people with opposing viewpoints is really sad hear. 

 

I feel you and sometimes feel the same since I generally lean towards pro-life, not based on morality or religion but biology.  I am a registered Democrat but only recently when I wanted to vote in the primaries here for Clinton over Obama.  I was unaffiliated until then but mostly voted Democrat because I perceived them to be more queer friendly than Republicans, so I became a Democrat.   I voted Sanders over Biden.  Pretty much 90% of the time my issues and candidates are defeated.  LOL

Tweety said:

I agree, but TMB made his case for women being abused by abortion bans.  But the idea that abortion bans are set up to abuse women, doesn't quite site right with me, anymore than those who are pro-abortion are baby murderers.

I'm sorry you had to go through that.  Someone in my family chose abortion and it was agonizing.

I feel you and sometimes feel the same since I generally lean towards pro-life, not based on morality or religion but biology.  I am a registered Democrat but only recently when I wanted to vote in the primaries here for Clinton over Obama.  I was unaffiliated until then but mostly voted Democrat because I perceived them to be more queer friendly than Republicans, so I became a Democrat.   I voted Sanders over Biden.  Pretty much 90% of the time my issues and candidates are defeated.  LOL

Understandable where you are coming from. 

I also don't believe abortion can be eliminated through political arguments, but only by winning people over through their hearts and their minds. And that's exactly where things have gone wrong in that instead of winning hearts and minds through persuasion, care of those most affected, and by respectful debate, there is an attack on people's hearts and minds

mtmkjr said:

 

I respect you for sharing that personal story. I also appreciate Tweety's comments. 

Being unaffiliated politically moderate-ish, pro-life personally,  I usually feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines and the kind of accusations and mischaracterizations of people with opposing viewpoints is really sad hear. 

 

Thank you. 

I shared that story because yes, I'm a Trump supporter. Which had me pinned as an anti abortion religious zelot. As well as other things When I said nothing about religion or even my stance on abortion. I'm quite obviously more choice than "pro-life". As per my actions. In my heart I think that it is a potential life and that life shouldn't be terminated. Even in my case. I do fear that abortion in early pregnancy is considered no big deal when it should be rare and not always an easy decision.  

Just as no women should be denied reproductive care and be harmed or worse die, These situations will happen if Texas and other very restrictive abortion laws are not amended reasonably.  I do fear that lax abortion laws that do not regulate to a certain degree would lead to late term abortion for reasons other than the health of a woman. My problem is with both sides. 

There's nothing radical, hateful or cultist about my opinion. 

Crusades said:

I 100% agree that the 6 week ban is not feasible or appropriate.  I was well over 6 weeks before I knew I was pregnant. I have 4 children and at the time didn't have any barriers to taking them to term. 

I did once though. I was in my late 30s and my birthcontrol method failed. I was seeing a man who I found out had molested my 12 year old daughter. I would have kept the pregnancy had it not been for what he did to my daughter. 

How could I have a child who would possibly be forced to visit their dad who molested his/her sister? Since the circumstances did not support a criminal charge? 

How would my 12 yr old daughter live with this child who's father molested her? 

How would I manage making parenting decisions with a man who molested my daughter ? How would I not worry when this man took partial custody? 

I had an abortion at 6 weeks. I took the abortion pill. Was it the right decisions?  I don't know. Doesn't always feel like it . It wasn't the babies fault. Do I have regrets? Absolutely.  

I'm not sure what I would have done if I found out when I was over 6 weeks. I imagine I would have found a way. 

So the accusation by another member that I "abuse women" and have no empathy for them is complete hogwash BALONEY.  

If only your misrepresentations and stances about abortion to this point reflect ANY  of that compassion or understanding for other women.