President Biden thread

Crusades said:

And eachother and characters. 

But character doesn't matter, that's why Trump is the GOP candidate, because character flaws aren't important. 

Or is character important? 

Crusades said:

What are my "stances about abortion"? Up to this point I didn't share my "stance on abortion" . You only applied what YOU though my stance was based on your discrimatory mind set for anyone having a differing opinion not popular with the far left zealots you chose to follow. 

How do you know as a man any experience a woman has? Empathy is defined as putting one's self in the others position. I've been in the position of the women I apparently "abuse". You're a man and can never been in that position.  I'm sure your compassion for women is severely limited whether they agree to an abortion at any stage or as long as she and her Dr decide. Or if you deem them a MAGA.  

Any woman saying otherwise deserves no compassion and will get none from you because they are a far right radical indoctrinated cult nazi radical. Who wants to live in the radical feminist fantasy if the Handmaid's Tale. 

Compassion criticizing. Ritch. When your only thought about the attempted assination of a former president is that it is unfortunate because it will make him look like a "sympathetic person". 

What you have is sympathy for these women you speak of. Which is differnt then empathy as it related to your feelings of pity.  You feel sympathy for these women because you feel a evil republican caused harm to her and satisfies your hatred.  However your feelings have little to do with the woman. It's more about the hatred you feel for anyone that has a differnt opinion. 

please tell me more about how a woman feels and how compassion works...... 

As a man I can support my wife through the abortion of our fetus with congenital defects incompatible with life, I can support my daughter and transgendered grandson through abortion after their sexual assaults. As a man I could stand with my sister as she became critically ill during her only planned pregnancy and was forced to seek abortion to save her own life.  As a man, I can employ compassion and empathy and stay current on the science and the laws and the politics which too often limit women's reproductive autonomy.  

Yes, I did say that it wasn't smart to make a pathological liar appear  sympathetic by trying to use violence against him.  Maybe you didn't read the entire comment because that is not the only reason I mentioned that violence is a bad idea or counter productive.  

No, I think you should go on telling me about the nature of my sympathy for women and the hatred I have for different opinions. 

Tweety said:

I am not interesting in reading about others points on abortion and will stay out of it.  Because there's no point in that one is dug in with what they know is truth.  I was just annoyed with "it's my opinion and I'm right but your opinion is right wing propaganda".

I think worrying that a woman won't be able to get her tubes tied is left wing propaganda.  Just sayin

When the opinions are based in partisan political or religious fear mongering, misrepresentations or fabrications it is fair to say it is based in propaganda, no matter which side of the argument. 

There certainly are anecdotal reports of an increase in the requests for sterilization procedures since Roe was overturned. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/07/29/1113573995/more-people-are-opting-to-get-sterilized-and-some-are-being-turned-away

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/permanent-sterilization-increasing-after-dobbs

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/07/02/nx-s1-5025682/tubal-ligation-tied-vasectomy-ob-gyns-more-requests-sterilization-after-dobbs-roe-overturned

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/12/sterilizations-roe-v-wade

It would be fear mongering to say that women can't get tubal ligations now.  It is important, however, to be vigilant for a creep of the loss of rights for women of reproductive age as birth rates continue to fall across the country.  People told women that it was fear mongering to worry that republicans would mess with the established precedent of Roe, too. 

toomuchbaloney said:

But character doesn't matter, that's why Trump is the GOP candidate, because character flaws aren't important. 

Or is character important? 

Actually I was refering to character attacks based on political affiliation and opposing opinion. You know about that very well. 

subee said:

Here's the problem.  A 10 year old victim of rape has to go out of state to get an abortion.  Women have to wait until they are septic until they can get an abortion.  Women are forced to give birth to babies with major neurological problems like anacephaly.  Children are forced to birth but will spend their lives in a chronic care children's hospital - the saddest places in the world.  Some will die of abuse.  the 20 week point, IMHO, was a wise compromise.  I worry that states that have harsh  abortion laws will eventually outlaw birth control and sterilization procedures.  So, I'm not sure that anyone who has zealous abortion prohibitions is actually using their intelligence because they are ignorant of the consequences.  If you think that anyone has an reason to force a 10 year old to give birth, they are not intelligent.  One of the first things I learned when I became a CASA was that incest is common in families that get reported to CPS and eventually wind up in family court and that incest in generational.  The family members may not report on a child being molested in the family because the one doing the molesting has the best paying job in the house and they don't want that person removed.  So, no, in the end, I'm not in favor of adolescents being forced to give birth.  Sometimes the right thing to do is the thing that makes you uncomfortable.

Here's the problem. There is no evidence that the 10 year old rape victim who was denied abortion has happened. Just like there is no documented case that a woman has sought an abortion for other than medical indications. Doesn't mean either have not happened or could not. Right? Please point to the republican bill that would "force adolescents to give birth.".  

Also, the instance of 10 year old incest victim getting pregnant is very rare. Abortions for rape or incest are very rare and do not make up the majority if abortions. Even less likely a 10 yr old. Sure we could say many of these cases are not reported and we could also say the same for late term abortion too. 

I imagine you were being hyperbolic. 

toomuchbaloney said:

There apparently was an immediate drop in the number of abortions in Florida after the new law took affect in May. That makes sense.  The providers would immediately cease offering services or guidance on abortion at 6 weeks gestation. I think it means that the women are carrying the pregnancy (and the risks and the costs) to delivery, or they are traveling for abortions, or they are getting contraband mifepristone. 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2024/07/07/florida-abortions-dropped-after-six-week-ban-took-effect-may-report-says/

https://www.flhealthcharts.gov/ChartsDashboards/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=BirthMonthly.Dataviewer&cid=25

Interestingly, since the new laws, number of live births in Florida are down noticeably. 

At the same time that there are fewer babies born with the new laws, more live birth infants die after birth in those states.  

https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(23)00408-7/fulltext

 I think that the new and restrictive laws create an air of uncertainty and confusion around these reproductive health choices.  

So, maybe people have an emotional belief that these restrictions are saving babies, but the immediate data paints a different picture, would you agree? 

I think it's important to put concern about unborn fetuses into context by comparing it to concern about already born children.  I've noted before that the states with the strictest abortion bans are some with the most children living in poverty or the most hungry children or many children with no access to healthcare or housing.  

I contend that if we want any of those issues addressed, Biden is the candidate most likely to accomplish meaningful progress.  

There's always been contention within the medical practice to under go sterilization under 30 yrs old. Many Dr do not feel comfortable doing that. 

However purposly distorting this with women getting sterilized because they are so scarred that the evil.republican SCOTUS will take away their birthcontrol is a fallacy. It's already a contested idea seperate of politics. So by all means exploit this too. 

If these women want to be sterilized because of reproductive hysteria, have at it. However don't condem a Dr for questioning a sterilization proceedure due to potential political action that has not happened. Doesn't ring sound of mind to me. I wouldn't be comfortable sterilizing a women for that reason. 

toomuchbaloney said:

Your comments tell us about you and your belief system.  

Hostility begets hostility just like violent rhetoric leads to violence.  

What are my comments  what beliefs do you think I have and what comment I have made lead you to belive this? 

Yes. Stating Trump and MAGA Republican extremist need to be stopped at all cost by the POTUS  most certainly do and I I argue did invoke violence.  

Or is it only applicable when Trump does it? 

Tweety said:

I am not interesting in reading about others points on abortion and will stay out of it.  Because there's no point in that one is dug in with what they know is truth.  I was just annoyed with "it's my opinion and I'm right but your opinion is right wing propaganda".

I think worrying that a woman won't be able to get her tubes tied is left wing propaganda.  Just sayin

Well no it isn't all leftist propoganda.    The senate blocked a anti-contraception bill this past June.  These folks are going to get the fires lit up by Trump and JD Vance.  And, of course there's Thomas and Alito will be waiting in the wings if it got to SCOTUS.  Not that SCOTUS would ever agree to do it, but they will try.  Thomas has said while on the bench that former decisions on  contraception, same sex marriage and same-sex relationships should be re-considered.  Alito would back him up.  It's real.

Crusades said:

Actually I was refering to character attacks based on political affiliation and opposing opinion. You know about that very well. 

I knew exactly what you were talking about. You prefer to affiliate yourself with the political ideology of some interesting groups.  That starts with support of a malignant narcissist who is a failed leader and pathological liar who continues to lie about our elections and a host of other important topics.  

"Lie with dogs get up with fleas".  

"You are the company you keep".  

"Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals.” 1Corinthians 15:33

"Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm."  Proverbs 13:20

Crusades said:

Here's the problem. There is no evidence that the 10 year old rape victim who was denied abortion has happened. Just like there is no documented case that a woman has sought an abortion for other than medical indications. Doesn't mean either have not happened or could not. Right? Please point to the republican bill that would "force adolescents to give birth.".  

Also, the instance of 10 year old incest victim getting pregnant is very rare. Abortions for rape or incest are very rare and do not make up the majority if abortions. Even less likely a 10 yr old. Sure we could say many of these cases are not reported and we could also say the same for late term abortion too. 

I imagine you were being hyperbolic. 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/indiana-doctor-defends-actions-in-10-year-old-rape-victims-abortion

Quote

Bernard treated the girl in Indianapolis in late June, as the girl was unable to have an abortion in neighboring Ohio. That's because Ohio's "fetal heartbeat" law took effect with the Supreme Court's decision. Such laws ban abortions from the time cardiac activity can be detected in an embryo, which is typically around the sixth week of pregnancy.

There's some evidence for you.  Will you accept it?  If a bill restricts abortion after a heartbeat is detected do you imagine the intention of the bill is too cause the female to complete the gestational cycle or to cause the female to go spend health care and travel dollars in another state to obtain the abortion?  

"Just like there is no documented case that a woman has sought an abortion for other than medical indications." 

What exactly are you trying to say with that sentence above? Are you trying again to claim that some women try to have abortions in the 3rd trimester for convenience? I'm still wondering why you think that a provider would terminate a viable pregnancy and kill a viable fetus just because a women asked them to. You've mentioned this before and Iam still wondering what you have read or heard that makes your think this happens, even rarely.  

It's easy to imagine that children raped and impregnated by adult relatives is rare and underreported to police.  It's not as easy to imagine that late term abortions have been unreported while abortion was legal in all states. Abortions will be unreported if they become widely illegal and unavailable through licensed medical clinics. Just like they were when my wife and I were teenagers. 

https://opa.hhs.gov/adolescent-health/reproductive-health-and-teen-pregnancy/trends-teen-pregnancy-and-childbearing

toomuchbaloney said:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/indiana-doctor-defends-actions-in-10-year-old-rape-victims-abortion

There's some evidence for you.  Will you accept it?  If a bill restricts abortion after a heartbeat is detected do you imagine the intention of the bill is too cause the female to complete the gestational cycle or to cause the female to go spend health care and travel dollars in another state to obtain the abortion?  

"Just like there is no documented case that a woman has sought an abortion for other than medical indications." 

What exactly are you trying to say with that sentence above? Are you trying again to claim that some women try to have abortions in the 3rd trimester for convenience? I'm still wondering why you think that a provider would terminate a viable pregnancy and kill a viable fetus just because a women asked them to. You've mentioned this before and Iam still wondering what you have read or heard that makes your think this happens, even rarely.  

It's easy to imagine that children raped and impregnated by adult relatives is rare and underreported to police.  It's not as easy to imagine that late term abortions have been unreported while abortion was legal in all states. Abortions will be unreported if they become widely illegal and unavailable through licensed medical clinics. Just like they were when my wife and I were teenagers. 

https://opa.hhs.gov/adolescent-health/reproductive-health-and-teen-pregnancy/trends-teen-pregnancy-and-childbearing

The first article is regarding if the Dr violated confidentiality for disclosing the girls situation in a bid to advance her advocacy for abortion rights . It has nothing to do with the Dr being investigated for providing an abortion rather than if the Dr.adhered to mandatory reporting. The title in itself is spin bias. Suggestive that it was in regards to abortion laws not that the Dr was being investigated for confidentiality breaches and using the girls situation for her abortion rights activism.  

Quote

"Nieman-Szyper said Bernard wouldn't be under investigation if she had not disclosed the girl's rape to a reporter to advance her own advocacy of abortion rights. Nieman-Szyper said Bernard had not shown she had permission from the girl's family to discuss her care in public, exposing the child to national attention." 

Also it demonstrates the the 10 yr old was able to get treatment in a differnt state. Quite easily in fact. Too bad this Dr  exploit the 10 yr old rape victim to advance her political beliefs.  

The second article is about teen pregnancy. Did you think I said that it isn't common for teens to get pregnant? LOL 

Also, it made no reference to these teen pregnancy being "forced". 

So no. Both are irrelevant.  

toomuchbaloney said:

I knew exactly what you were talking about. You prefer to affiliate yourself with the political ideology of some interesting groups.  That starts with support of a malignant narcissist who is a failed leader and pathological liar who continues to lie about our elections and a host of other important topics.  

"Lie with dogs get up with fleas".  

"You are the company you keep".  

"Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals.” 1Corinthians 15:33

"Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm."  Proverbs 13:20

Then that would mean all Republicans, all conservatives are indoctrinated cult members where you said that this isn't the case. You just contradicted yourself. 

It interesting you would use biblical quotes considering your demonstrated opinion of Christians as out off reach religious zealots. LOL. So quote some Bible verse  to make your point. 

More contradictions.