President Biden thread

54 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Just wondering if someone supported the Third Reich ideology, (Make America Great again) does that also mean that the ends justifies the means? (Nazisim?)....... Insurrection? Demonizing Asians or Hispanics? 

If you know the history, these points will make sense. 

Any type of conservatisim is nothing like the Third Reich. The major political parties do not engage in anything Nazi. That's like say the democrats subscription to that of Stalin. Not even close. Anyone can take any type of political policy or idea and twist it to sound similar to Nazi or communism.  Doesn't make it so. 

Goes for both Republicans and Democrats.  He did not demonize Asians or Hispanics, I'm sure there's something somewhere that can be cut and interpreted as that but no. . However there are a few loud people that actively demonize white men. All the time. 

3 hours ago, DaveICURN said:

I don't know about "Thinking Conservatives", but I consider myself as right of center. I voted for Ben Carson in the Primary, but ultimately voted trump for his foreign trade policy and strong domestic values. 

Biden's current policies that are an overreach of power, relating to vax mandates concerns me. I feel the same way I did during the Bush era 9/11 bill to "protect" that ultimately stole away peoples rights to privacy. 

Said without demonizing Biden or his supporters!  Plain simple. I would describe myself as simular.  

2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I think people sort themselves out according to their own criteria. I've said this before.

In my view, "Trumpers" are people who have some fantastical pov related to Trump. They often share and repeat propaganda or political rhetoric based largely in inflammatory opinions of other people. They are inclined to believe and repeat lies. The GOP is the political apparatus that is driving state and national republican policy and legislative priorities.  Conservatives are people who wonder how they fit into a Trump centric, lie focused and narrow minded Republican party. 

Can someone be a Trump supported and not be a "Trumper"?. 

16 minutes ago, Cclm said:

Any type of conservatisim is nothing like the Third Reich. The major political parties do not engage in anything Nazi. That's like say the democrats subscription to that of Stalin. Not even close. Anyone can take any type of political policy or idea and twist it to sound similar to Nazi or communism.  Doesn't make it so. 

Goes for both Republicans and Democrats.  He did not demonize Asians or Hispanics, I'm sure there's something somewhere that can be cut and interpreted as that but no. . However there are a few loud people that actively demonize white men. All the time. 

Sorry, but wasn't the Third Reich about making Germany great again. Rule for a thousand years or something like that? 

And what was Nazisim, if not elevating one set of people above others using gullible, facile people who then sought to distance themselves when a totally ludicrous evil man ended up doing totally cruel and despicable things, akin to what the trumpistas are currently doing? And by extension the current republican party except for a very few dissenters. 

Just because the outcomes weren't similar, doesn't mean that the ideology isn't the same! 

22 minutes ago, Cclm said:

Said without demonizing Biden or his supporters!  Plain simple. I would describe myself as simular.  

Can someone be a Trump supported and not be a "Trumper"?. 

Can someone be a Hitler supporter and not a Nazi? 

1 hour ago, Cclm said:

3 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

 

Can someone be a Trump supported and not be a "Trumper"?. 

I'm not certain that I can say one way or another. As I said, I think that a Trumper is a person having a certain way of thinking about Trump and what he represents...a pov.

15 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

Sorry, but wasn't the Third Reich about making Germany great again. Rule for a thousand years or something like that? 

And what was Nazisim, if not elevating one set of people above others using gullible, facile people who then sought to distance themselves when a totally ludicrous evil man ended up doing totally cruel and despicable things, akin to what the trumpistas are currently doing? And by extension the current republican party except for a very few dissenters. 

Just because the outcomes weren't similar, doesn't mean that the ideology isn't the same! 

Can someone be a Hitler supporter and not a Nazi? 

No.Trump supporters are hardly Nazis. Even the few truly racist ones. I'm sorry but comparing Trump to Hitler is a facility. I know of a few Jewish people and war vets that would be offended by that. 

Like I said. You can conflate and mold almost anything to sound a simular way. I do not think Hitler was "making Germany great again" but diabolical trying to exterminate an entire group of people because of some sort of evil sickness growing in what we would usually call his heart. His "great Germany" was to kill anyone he didn't like, it did not include anyone that didn't fit his sick perverted idea of a superior race. He did it by explaining to to people that there are oppressed and oppressors and nothing an individual did could over come the oppressors evil and they needed to be killed(dismantled). (A very basic interpretation, much more to it than that). 

I will never compare Hitler or Nazis to anyone. I feel it is disrespectful to all his victims. However there is a type of narrative, "oppressed" and "oppressors" that is a insidious evil that is being said louder and louder every day. 

You may not agree with Trump and his "MAGA" campaign, but no American was excluded from it and most certainly not any race. Hitler killed who he didn't think was "right", Trump calls them losers. Very big difference there. IMO 

6 minutes ago, Cclm said:

No.Trump supporters are hardly Nazis. Even the few truly racist ones. I'm sorry but comparing Trump to Hitler is a facility. I know of a few Jewish people and war vets that would be offended by that. 

Like I said. You can conflate and mold almost anything to sound a simular way. I do not think Hitler was "making Germany great again" but diabolical trying to exterminate an entire group of people because of some sort of evil sickness growing in what we would usually call his heart. His "great Germany" was to kill anyone he didn't like, it did not include anyone that didn't fit his sick perverted idea of a superior race. He did it by explaining to to people that there are oppressed and oppressors and nothing an individual did could over come the oppressors evil and they needed to be killed(dismantled). (A very basic interpretation, much more to it than that). 

I will never compare Hitler or Nazis to anyone. I feel it is disrespectful to all his victims. However there is a type of narrative, "oppressed" and "oppressors" that is a insidious evil that is being said louder and louder every day. 

You may not agree with Trump and his "MAGA" campaign, but no American was excluded from it and most certainly not any race. Hitler killed who he didn't think was "right", Trump calls them losers. Very big difference there. IMO 

Trump not Hitler; just on the same continuum.  He allowed his secretary of state Pompeo to pose in a photo op with the head of the Taliban.  And people wonder why the Afghan army fled?  You think he would have learned by now that the art of the deal doesn't work with brutal dictators. by now.

9 minutes ago, Cclm said:

No.Trump supporters are hardly Nazis. Even the few truly racist ones. I'm sorry but comparing Trump to Hitler is a facility. I know of a few Jewish people and war vets that would be offended by that. 

Like I said. You can conflate and mold almost anything to sound a simular way. I do not think Hitler was "making Germany great again" but diabolical trying to exterminate an entire group of people because of some sort of evil sickness growing in what we would usually call his heart. His "great Germany" was to kill anyone he didn't like, it did not include anyone that didn't fit his sick perverted idea of a superior race. He did it by explaining to to people that there are oppressed and oppressors and nothing an individual did could over come the oppressors evil and they needed to be killed(dismantled). (A very basic interpretation, much more to it than that). 

I will never compare Hitler or Nazis to anyone. I feel it is disrespectful to all his victims. However there is a type of narrative, "oppressed" and "oppressors" that is a insidious evil that is being said louder and louder every day. 

You may not agree with Trump and his "MAGA" campaign, but no American was excluded from it and most certainly not any race. Hitler killed who he didn't think was "right", Trump calls them losers. Very big difference there. IMO 

Not even remotely calling trumpistas Nazis or even republicans. 

However the ideology is similar. It's how you can confuse socialism with communism as many republicans tend to do. 

It's just hypocritical and ironic how republicans advocate for rights and freedoms and then voter suppress or restrict women's rights to health care or mandate mask wearing or vaccine legislation thereby increasing governmental oversight etc. 

5 minutes ago, subee said:

Trump not Hitler; just on the same continuum.  He allowed his secretary of state Pompeo to pose in a photo op with the head of the Taliban.  And people wonder why the Afghan army fled?  You think he would have learned by now that the art of the deal doesn't work with brutal dictators. by now.

Fair enough but you might think Biden shouldn't take Taliban seriously or Trust them or to say they are "professional or whatever Saki said. 

Or leave American behind but....

17 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Not even remotely calling trumpistas Nazis or even republicans. 

However the ideology is similar. It's how you can confuse socialism with communism as many republicans tend to do. 

It's just hypocritical and ironic how republicans advocate for rights and freedoms and then voter suppress or restrict women's rights to health care or mandate mask wearing or vaccine legislation thereby increasing governmental oversight etc. 

I don't understand how they voter suppress by requiring a ID. In Canada it's the same thing. As for individual states enacting their policy depends on the people who live there. Surely you wouldn't want a state to intact its individual policy on all other states. Texas the same as NY? Not a chance. Not all Republicans think the the way just like not all Democrats think the same. 

I find it disingenuous and non constructive to demonize those of another party by inferring they are Nazis etc. 

I think allot of Democrats(not all) get confused between socialism and democracy.  IMO

4 minutes ago, Cclm said:

Fair enough but you might think Biden shouldn't take Taliban seriously or Trust them or to say they are "professional or whatever Saki said. 

Or leave American behind but....

That's the right wing narrative of events. Do you have any other nuanced perception of events or just a right wing perspective.  

Facism isn't limited to nazis  or Hitler, although all facists utilize lies and dishonesty regardless of the historical footsteps they follow.  It's true that we might think that Biden shouldn't take the Taliban seriously but that's not the box of shoes that he needed to put on American troops to walk them out of the country.  Pompeo and Esper selected those shoes and Trump okayed the plan to purchase the shoes for the withdrawal.  But, like with historical facists, things aren't really the way the facists say they are...Mussolini understood the power of publicly repeating lies until they had a veneer of credibility simply because so many had heard the lies...like the widespread notion of voter or election fraud today. 

Just because today's Trump supporter can't discern the similarities of themselves to historical facists and facist movements doesn't mean that there isn't remarkable similarity. That inability to assess the events of the past few years with any real honesty is evidence of the draw that authoritarian lies represent to people influenced by propaganda.  American conservatives have been targeted for indoctrination and some dangerous people decided that the targeted group can be manipulated to attain, maintain or seize power.  Some of those people are now flexing their power to reduce or eliminate the power of elections or vote totals. Like Trump started complaining in the early Summer of 2020 that the election was rigged in advance of the vote, that is the new fascist strategy for elections going forward...just complain that the election was rigged and start complaining early - before voting even starts. 

2 minutes ago, Cclm said:

I think allot of Democrats(not all) get confused between socialism and democracy.  IMO

It seems to me that most of the confused commentary about socialism comes from consumers of right wing media outlets and publications.  Lots of those people even compare liberal Americans to socialists...often Venezuelan socialists. Your thinking doesn't really explain that frequent occurrence and makes it seem like an example of an attempt to project Republican confusion onto Democrats. 

Can you see how that appears as a projection?