President Biden thread

On 8/30/2021 at 10:19 AM, Tweety said:

Sadly it's a combination but I think it's lead by people really not caring about the truth.  Trump started with "I've had the largest inauguration crowd in history" which was easily disputed by any lay person with Google.  Did his supporters stop and Google and find the truth?  No, they accepted it and then went on to believe much of what he said.  We didn't have the term "fake news" or "alternative facts" until the last four years and honesty doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people.  As I've said many times this has baffled me.  

It's one thing to be very religious, anti-abortion, pro-business, pro-military, anti-taxation, anti-deficit spending, and pro-gun or any of the other conservative issues that make one conservative.  It's another to support people that have an agenda of dishonesty and not even care that they are being dishonest.  They go beyond holding people like the CDC or the media accountable to branding them fake.  

I can perhaps say that Trump was the epitome of this, but like I've said before it's alive and well in people like Rand Paul who invent the idea that scientists aren't studying this drug as a covid treatment when they are.   

My hospital again put out stats today that the overwhelming majority of people in our hospital system are unvaccinated but someone not liking what they hear told me that was BS.  How is it that they know this?  How is it that every hospital in multiple parts of the world have gotten together to fool the people on purpose.  How does this make sense to them in their head?  

I appreciate questioning, challenging and holding people accountable and digging deeper.  It's really not that hard to do when you hear something outrageous to you, but you also have to stop and think "okay, on this point they are correct...most hospitalizations are indeed unvaccinated people".   But people aren't willing to do that.  Rand Paul wasn't willing to do that, and people are going to hear his rhetoric.

On an off note, a 30 year old that protested masks in Texas took the drug and died of covid anyway.  I certainly am smart enough to say "see it doesn't work" but it sometimes seems that's the mindset of people these days.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/29/texas-caleb-wallace-anti-mask-protests-freedom-dies-covid-19

The pervasive use of lies and the attack on truth and facts that permeates the GOP is consistent with fascist strategies for seizing or securing power. There's an interesting book out right now...you can review the table of contents.

This preference to establish a narrative and belittle the truth, among republican politicians, is having disastrous results as it collides with a pandemic. 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/05/01/destroying-trust-in-the-media-science-and-government-has-left-america-vulnerable-to-disaster/

On 8/28/2021 at 8:46 PM, Tweety said:

That lists my hospital's ICU capacity at 91% which I already knew.   Not good.  But really should I say "we have ICU beds so the situation isn't that bad, don't believe the hype" just because we have beds or that ER waits are "only 6 hours" when ordinarily the hospitals advertise on billboards their ER wait times of 10 minutes or less.  Six hours really isn't that bad when you're sick.  We had a guy wait in the ER for 12 hours and turns out his hemoglobin was 5.4.    ER also has a lot of covid patients holding for days to get a bed inpatient.   But still they are managing and like I said, our OR is open and we have ICU beds, and unlike a lot of ERs we aren't on covid divert...just barely.

It also says the hospital less than a mile away is at 108% capacity for ICU beds which might mean their ER is holding a lot of ICU patients.  We are the trauma center but they still have the preferred ER for the community and they are really struggling.  They canceled elective surgeries to deal with the situation there.  They are offering nurses a $750 bonus to work an extra 12 hour shift.  Many staff are infected with covid at both hospitals.  The LTAC hospital here is offering $1000 per extra shift.  

Crazy times.  

This isn't hype.  Facts.

Tweety you have every right to comr here to let off steam.  The nurses of Florida deserve a lot more than that.  I lived in NOLA as a young child and visited friends down there until Covid and I am sick thinking of those nurses working without airconditioning and limited power.  And most of their exhaustion now is due to people who now literally spit in their faces after they did so metaphorically.  The only good thing is that the new levees didn't break in the city.

1 hour ago, Beerman said:

I think the Trump haters just assume, or are told by liberal media, that we just believe everything he says.

There's literally overwhelming evidence that Trump supporters either believe what Trump says or claim not to care if it was an intentional lie. That first official lie from the White House Press secretary was precedent setting in several ways.  It was bold and shameless.  It was argumentative with the visual images and video.  It was widely accepted by Trump supporters (or ignored). 

Trump Supporters on Inauguration Size

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For the question about which image went with which inauguration, 41 percent of Trump supporters gave the wrong answer; that’s significantly more than the wrong answers given by 8 percent of Clinton voters and 21 percent of those who did not vote.

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But what’s even more noteworthy is that 15 percent of people who voted for Trump told us that more people were in the image on the left — the photo from Trump’s inauguration — than the picture on the right. We got that answer from only 2 percent of Clinton voters and 3 percent of nonvoters.

Even when the photographic evidence was directly in front of them and the question was straightforward, one in seven Trump supporters gave the clearly false answer.

That's lots and lots of people.  Now there are more people who believe other dangerous rather than silly vanity lies.  Lies about election fraud.  Lies about Afghanistan.  Lies about covid.  

So many lies. So much gullibility. 

15 hours ago, Beerman said:

Do you actually know a large portion of his supporters believe that?  Any proof or source?  I know he didn't have the biggest inauguration in history.  

I think the Trump haters just assume, or are told by liberal media, that we just believe everything he says.

No, I'm sure people didn't believe all of his boast about having the biggest inauguration.  But I'm saying this is when it started.  People just went, "yeah he says some dumb things sometimes...but he gets things done...I like how he speaks his mind...he's not poltically correct..".   The put up with his lies over and over again, and I'm sure most of them knew he was full of crap, but they didn't care.  

But then it just went on and on.  To the point that people didn't believe the news anymore, scientists, or doctors, teachers,and that they actually believe he won the election and the election was stolen.  I actually know people that believe this. 

Too bad they didn't nip him in the bud from the start instead of embolden him to bigger and more outrageous lies which they eventually started to believe.

I don't blame him alone.  He's had his enablers and they live on the likes of Rand Paul and Marjorie Taylor Green.  

Finally I blame the people like I mentioned before that don't critically think.  I think this started long ago though.  I always go back to a point on these forums when it hit me "the dumbing down of America has begun".  It was when a poster announced without any evidence that Obama let in 10,000 muslim terrorists in New Orleans.  I think I asked "really, how is it you know this and it's not headline news, even on Fox???  This would be an outrage even to Obama supporters.  He would not get a pass for this".  No answer because she didn't stop to think it through, just bought it hook line and sinker from someone and it was a made up story.  These are the people that birthed Trump I suppose.

No I'm not saying "all Republicans".  

1 hour ago, Beerman said:

Your linked survey is not "overwhelming evidence", or "lots and lots of people".

Assuming the respondents were equally representated by all three voters, and we don't even know that, doing the math nets you 65 people.  And, that was a few days after the inauguration.  Probably would get you even fewer now.

Oh right...except there's evidence that Trump voters still believe his lies. The overwhelming evidence is all around you. 

Your opinion that it would be smaller now ignores the reality that Trumpers currently believe that Trump was cheated out winning the last election.  Millions of Trump voters believe, without a shred of evidence that, like at the inauguration, Trump's group was bigger. 

7 minutes ago, Beerman said:

No, I believe you're wrong.  I think most people would say there is evidence that there were a lot of irregularities in many areas that are worthy of looking into.

Does that mean there is proof Trump should have won?  No. 

That is the "Trump voter" opinion I'm most familiar with. 

Tweety seems to know some who believe he won.  I do not know any.

So, no.   There is not overwhelming evidence everywhere that "Trump voters believe his lies".

The is no evidence of lots of irregularities.  That's suspicion of election fraud based upon an often repeated lie. That is evidence that republican voters will accept and believe a lie when the evidence clearly disproves the lie...just like with the inauguration.   How do you not know that?

You believe other types of lies from Trump or you've dismissed them as meaningless in these threads. It's no surprise that you dismiss the evidence that others are similarly or more inclined to believe partisan lies from Trump and his sycophants.  Not surprising at all. 

3 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Oh right...except there's evidence that Trump voters still believe his lies. The overwhelming evidence is all around you. 

Your opinion that it would be smaller now ignores the reality that Trumpers currently believe that Trump was cheated out winning the last election.  Millions of Trump voters believe, without a shred of evidence that, like at the inauguration, Trump's group was bigger. 

Right. Because the only politician to lie is Trump EVER! LOL . Seems that there is a whole lot of lies coming from Biden or he's repeating lies told to him. Ever heard of the Afganistan withdrawal??? 

2 hours ago, Beerman said:

No, I believe you're wrong.  I think most people would say there is evidence that there were a lot of irregularities in many areas that are worthy of looking into.

Does that mean there is proof Trump should have won?  No. 

That is the "Trump voter" opinion I'm most familiar with. 

Tweety seems to know some who believe he won.  I do not know any.

So, no.   There is not overwhelming evidence everywhere that "Trump voters believe his lies".

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Cawthorn became one of the most loyal defenders of Trump, who claimed falsely that the 2020 election had been stolen from him. In a six-minute video posted to Twitter on Dec. 31, Cawthorn said, “My first act as a member of Congress will be to object to the electoral college certification of the 2020 election.”

To justify his decision, he repeated a host of false and misleading claims about the election, accusing various state election officials of violating the law even though courts across the country and Trump’s own attorney general, William P. Barr, rejected these allegations.

“Voter fraud is common in America. Those who tell you otherwise are lying,” Cawthorn said in the video.

Cawthorn alleged that a number of states had violated the Constitution and their own laws. Cawthorn said “ballots were shoved into duffel bags and left in parks and gas stations.” He said Nevada “allowed dead people and out-of-state voters to flood the electoral system,” a baseless assertion. He said mail-in ballots “are wildly susceptible to fraud.”

“Fact-check that,” Cawthorn said, adding, “Do not let your vote be canceled by these bastards.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/27/making-madison-cawthorn-how-falsehoods-helped-propel-career-new-pro-trump-star-far-right/

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In fact, voter fraud is rare, mail-in ballots have been almost entirely free of fraud for decades, no widespread fraud was found in the fall election, and courts across the country dismissed more than 60 legal challenges filed by the Trump campaign.

Enough people believe those lies that they elected another incompetent and unqualified right wing nut job and liar. 

1 hour ago, Cclm said:

Right. Because the only politician to lie is Trump EVER! LOL . Seems that there is a whole lot of lies coming from Biden or he's repeating lies told to him. Ever heard of the Afganistan withdrawal??? 

That's not the point but it is a favorite deflection by Trump supporters. It is the same old contention that Trump can't be that bad because, if course, EVERYONE lies.  It's still unclear how people who are unable to discern obvious lies from Trump for 4 years are suddenly expert at identifying lies in the Biden administration.