Hey, y'all! I am compiling stories from folks who have broken predatory new graduate contracts, and have faced financial and career consequences as a result (I'm looking at you, HCA). The hospitals have held all the power in these dealings, and it's time we receive justice. Many of us have struggled and worked hard to provide excellent care for our patients under dire staffing and resources, only to receive backlash when we decide it's time to leave these unsafe conditions. I want to help tell our stories and prevent this disgusting practice to end. Here is my story:
I recently left a position at an HCA facility before my new grad contract was up (I had completed 3/4 of the two years), and I now owe them thousands of dollars. The unit I worked on was chronically understaffed, overworked, and underpaid. I continued to work hard and try to boost morale despite the daily strife. I volunteered to work in the COVID units back in April 2020 when little was known about the disease, and how to protect ourselves from it. Then my home unit was also turned into a PCU COVID unit, where I spent many of my shifts until I left in December 2020. My mental health had been deteriorating as a result of the stress and exhaustion. I had many conversations with my manager about the unacceptable conditions, and how it was affecting my mental health. No attempts were made to remedy the unit's situation. I told my manager I was accepting another position to take better care of myself. I am now being harassed by their collections agency, Benefit Recovery Group, to pay up the money I owe for the "Residency Program," (aka a three month orientation similar to what an experienced nurse would receive if they were changing unit specialties).
I don't believe I should be penalized for leaving unsafe working conditions after I had made multiple reports. I also cited my health as a reason for leaving, and it's only ironic that a hospital would come after an employee for prioritizing their health. Attempts at contacting HR and my previous manager have been futile. I am now frustrated, angry, and hungry for justice for myself and others who have been wronged by hospitals.
Please message me if you want to share your story. I will respect your need for anonymity if that is what your wish. Thank you for your time.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
20 hours ago, Curious1997 said:
This thread seriously amazes me and reinforces in my mind anyway that, no offense intended, that all the nurses pursuing further education simply doesn't cut muster!
You spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on further education and do the same work if you are on the floors as a diploma qualified nurse and yet with all your education you are unable to find a solution to something as simple as a contract to get out of?
This is a clear example of why nurses don't get ahead.
Problem...? Contract... Assessment.... Done by lawyers hired by the hospital... Solution....
Just as the hospital identified a cost re new grads etc and sought out contract lawyers to resolve this issue.... Shouldn't the solution be to essentially do the same?
The New grads get together, pool their money and get a good contract lawyer to look at their existing contracts and exactly as someone mentioned re predatory lending,.... There are precedents already set and can be utilized!
I really should have become a lawyer because any competent lawyer would bite your hand off for this.
I actually think I might have a solution now that I am thinking about it. I will get back to you after exploring it.
I am intrigued by your post but have reservations about "new grads getting together". Since hospitals often hire people from different locations, at different times and to different units, I'm not sure how they would find each other beforehand. My first exposure to fellow new hires was always in orientation class, after we'd all been hired.
Besides that, what you're proposing sounds a lot like a union. It's notoriously hard to unionize in the US. A bunch of hungry, naive new grads who don't know each other have virtually no way of banding together. You may have thought this through and come up with something that I can't think of. If you have, this would be most interesting.
I hope this is not coming across as sarcastic. It really would be a novel solution.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
2 hours ago, feelix said:
2 hours ago, feelix said:
I understand locking in an experienced nurse into a contract, but most new grads historically quit their first job within a year. SMH
And this is why they have contracts. "Because new grads historically quit their first job within a year." I don't know if this is statistically true, but it is the rationale for the contracts.
Experienced nurses are much less inclined to sign a contract, because they've been around long enough to know better, and because they can leverage their experience to better job choices.
2 hours ago, feelix said:
Seriously, this is why nurses need to unionize.
There are so many ways in which employers are treating nurses like minions and not like the highly trained professionals they are and we need to do more about it to make it stop.
You're right about this. (Not agreeing that there's a shortage and hate the whole "eating their young" schtick.
There is a years-span thread on this site about why nurses don't unionize. I spent nearly my whole career trying to get other nurses to unionize, be active in the union and use union-provided tools for better conditions. It was a sisyphian task and got me negative dings on my evals.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
15 hours ago, brandy1017 said:
I would suggest trying to research laws re contracts in your state. Check out NOLO for more info. I've read that contracts are not always enforceable, depending on state law. Also a contract is supposed to be mutually beneficial. It doesn't sound very beneficial to you. You could try to see if the local Legal Aid Society could look into it. Or if there is a law school see if they have a legal clinic where students provide help.
I wouldn't give money to a collection company voluntarily. But if they are that aggressive they will probably pursue it in the courts and garnish your wages.
Being the size organization that HCA is I would suspect the their contracts have been challenged in the past. They most likely have a huge team of attorney's on retainer and one has to remember that the party that loses a lawsuit has to pay the penalty and balance of the contracted amount plus the legal costs of the party that wins.
This is why people need to have their eyes wide open when preparing to sign a contract. Many newly graduated/licensed nurses are just so happy to be offered a job (any job) that they sign away their souls along with their first born child and sign the contract.
In my own nursing career I have never signed a contract of this nature or accepted a sign on bonus. When asked to sign I usually say something like, "I need 48 hours to have my lawyer go over this." If the prepective employer balks, I know this is not someone I want to work for.
I am intrigued by your post but have reservations about "new grads getting together". Since hospitals often hire people from different locations, at different times and to different units, I'm not sure how they would find each other beforehand. My first exposure to fellow new hires was always in orientation class, after we'd all been hired.
Besides that, what you're proposing sounds a lot like a union. It's notoriously hard to unionize in the US. A bunch of hungry, naive new grads who don't know each other have virtually no way of banding together. You may have thought this through and come up with something that I can't think of. If you have, this would be most interesting.
I hope this is not coming across as sarcastic. It really would be a novel solution.
My father is a contract lawyer and I have spoken to him about this and I can't legally offer any more advice because of his profession and it encompasses 'solicitation' being that this is a nursing forum and the problem was aired here, but I have already offered the solution , but I can say that this actually comes under Rico.
If new grads are reading this and are actually that uncomfortable, they can organize themselves here through DM or someone leaves their email to communicate with each other or facebook etc.
The solution is a lawyer but not necessarily a contract lawyer. This comes under Rico so a union would also not be the solution.
I have already suggested the solution in my previous post.
And this is why they have contracts. "Because new grads historically quit their first job within a year." I don't know if this is statistically true, but it is the rationale for the contracts.
Experienced nurses are much less inclined to sign a contract, because they've been around long enough to know better, and because they can leverage their experience to better job choices.
You're right about this. (Not agreeing that there's a shortage and hate the whole "eating their young" schtick.
There is a years-span thread on this site about why nurses don't unionize. I spent nearly my whole career trying to get other nurses to unionize, be active in the union and use union-provided tools for better conditions. It was a sisyphian task and got me negative dings on my evals.
It took a couple of years but the hospital in my city unionized recently. We are a city of only 25, 000 or so but the citizens are extremely supportive of the nurses and signs supporting those sentiments were set up in yards surrounding the hospital and beyond. IMHO, that community support is what got the hospital to cave in.
I'm not offering legal advice but this is about employment law and extortion!
A hospital system operates across many states and the reason you need to go as a group is that if that hospital system uses the same or similar employment contracts in different hospitals over multiple states, that is some serious stuff!
Now that I agree with! ? There is still the problem of them having few options even if they do recognize that signing the contract is committing to something that might not work out. Some of the responses they have been given are less than intellectual and tend to simply be the false dichotomy equivalent of "if you don't like it (here), leave." There are actually other ways that things could be, if we didn't feel compelled to defend them and make excuses for them.
When Entity #1 has freely given false information, reneged in numerous ways verbal and probably not written, I do have a problem saying that the worst, most unethical and irresponsible move occurs when when Entity #2 calls it quits and violates the one portion of the relationship that is provable.
I feel that, at the least, those who defend this should also be strong advocates that employers legally be required to step up to the plate in a similar way. As it is, they actually do not have to uphold their own contract, either--and they won't if they don't want to. And they will end the contract as they see fit--with near-complete impunity. They just make up a reason why the employee isn't succeeding and that's it.
I keep interacting with this thread because I sincerely do not understand the moral (not legal) discrepancy that is inherently being defended. When I read comments written with tones that would suggest there is a freely equal balance of power between these two entities and that #2 is irresponsible but #1 is not, I'm just not going to see it that way. I have no idea why we accept one thing from #1 and expect something entirely more moral from #2.
ETA: People are also acting as if every contract is rock solid and defensible just because it was signed. And as if new grad nurses have the financial means to really argue these in court. Since they realistically can't, that proves that these must be legally defensible in all situations?
I would suggest that people have choices! Contract or no contract.
If someone expressed a desire to leave especially in our line of business and has submitted something in writing, or can prove a verbal expression, just knowing of the possible outcomes from a disgruntled employee and the potential lawsuit, should make any employer think thrice!
Any good lawyer would immediately question the assessment ability of the employer to hire an employee especially a new grad, if an incident occured. Me, I don't like to lose and I would skewer an employer in so many ways and I am not even a lawyer just knowledgeable about some things re the law.
You would also question why did you need a contract in the first place, what about the job required indentured servitude.
I would also question why not release the employee and seek restitution by garnishment of future wages instead of opening Pandora's Box?
There are too many horrendous outcomes for any employer to hold an employee in our line of business. You are opening yourself up to lawsuits from the employee and the victim to the victims family.
And MOST IMPORTANTLY you may not be aware of this, but there are so many regulatory bodies involved in health care, that a single incident could involve not just the hospital, but numerous individuals involved from the hiring process to the preceptor and the charge nurse. I would peel management like an onion! And all would be liable to civil suits, if handled by the right lawyer! Especially the licensed ones!
My father is a lawyer and he has an aphorism that allows him to win almost all of his cases 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'!
Lawyers are trained to think within the confines of the law. He uses that against them often. They are predictable! In corporate law which is his specialty, contracts come up often. Lawyers are generally confident in their interpretations because of precedent and statutes. This places them in a bubble. You can bet those lawyers who wrote those contracts didn't stray from the letter of the law!
People are emotional and erratic! They don't follow the letter of emotions or the statutes of predictable behaviors!
My father is a contract lawyer and I have spoken to him about this and I can't legally offer any more advice because of his profession and it encompasses 'solicitation' being that this is a nursing forum and the problem was aired here, but I have already offered the solution , but I can say that this actually comes under Rico.
If new grads are reading this and are actually that uncomfortable, they can organize themselves here through DM or someone leaves their email to communicate with each other or facebook etc.
The solution is a lawyer but not necessarily a contract lawyer. This comes under Rico so a union would also not be the solution.
I have already suggested the solution in my previous post.
Is this something that should be taken up by the ANA and the SNA's?
My father is a contract lawyer and I have spoken to him about this and I can't legally offer any more advice because of his profession
Also because you’re not a lawyer.
Anyway: My FQHC doesn’t do this with new grad RNs, but they definitely take advantage of the providers. They hire new-grad APRNs who are obligated to a two-year commitment— not because of a contract with our clinic, but because they are receiving debt forgiveness through the federal government in exchange for working in a high-needs area. The clinic works them absolutely to death, with zero MD oversight or mentoring, knowing they can’t quit. 100% of them resign the instant their two-year term is up. It’s really too bad, because it means our patients are treated by a revolving door of inexperienced APRNs and PAs.
Is this something that should be taken up by the ANA and the SNA's?
Not really. They are not affected. It's individuals who are affected and they made those choices to sign those contracts.
If they want out, they need to use the same laws that were used against them. State labor depts are not affected either but they have regulations against what's occurring.
Is this something that should be taken up by the ANA and the SNA's?
Ideally, yes. These organizations, however, are mostly social clubs that provide you a few CEUs on the side. You will see the old guard mostly discourage you from joining a union which will fight for your rights and join these lah de dah orgs.
Emergent, RN
4,302 Posts
These non-competing clauses are odious and so against free-market ideals.