Hey, y'all! I am compiling stories from folks who have broken predatory new graduate contracts, and have faced financial and career consequences as a result (I'm looking at you, HCA). The hospitals have held all the power in these dealings, and it's time we receive justice. Many of us have struggled and worked hard to provide excellent care for our patients under dire staffing and resources, only to receive backlash when we decide it's time to leave these unsafe conditions. I want to help tell our stories and prevent this disgusting practice to end. Here is my story:
I recently left a position at an HCA facility before my new grad contract was up (I had completed 3/4 of the two years), and I now owe them thousands of dollars. The unit I worked on was chronically understaffed, overworked, and underpaid. I continued to work hard and try to boost morale despite the daily strife. I volunteered to work in the COVID units back in April 2020 when little was known about the disease, and how to protect ourselves from it. Then my home unit was also turned into a PCU COVID unit, where I spent many of my shifts until I left in December 2020. My mental health had been deteriorating as a result of the stress and exhaustion. I had many conversations with my manager about the unacceptable conditions, and how it was affecting my mental health. No attempts were made to remedy the unit's situation. I told my manager I was accepting another position to take better care of myself. I am now being harassed by their collections agency, Benefit Recovery Group, to pay up the money I owe for the "Residency Program," (aka a three month orientation similar to what an experienced nurse would receive if they were changing unit specialties).
I don't believe I should be penalized for leaving unsafe working conditions after I had made multiple reports. I also cited my health as a reason for leaving, and it's only ironic that a hospital would come after an employee for prioritizing their health. Attempts at contacting HR and my previous manager have been futile. I am now frustrated, angry, and hungry for justice for myself and others who have been wronged by hospitals.
Please message me if you want to share your story. I will respect your need for anonymity if that is what your wish. Thank you for your time.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
On 4/10/2021 at 10:27 PM, CreamCheeseRangoons said:
Hey! I agree unsafe ratios are a normalized part of healthcare, but it doesn’t make it acceptable. Please direct your passive aggressive energy towards a worthy cause like addressing unsafe staffing.
We get systemic issues like unsafe staffing, a “nurses eat their young” culture, or racial discrimination because it’s normalized. “This is how it’s always been done, get over it.” That’s unacceptable. You don’t make change that way.
Your profile pic is of a man, which is only fitting that you’re questioning the legitimacy of my experience. I want you to do some self reflection tonight on why you jumped to that conclusion. Ask yourself, “if someone I knew wanted to disclose information regarding sexual harassment/abuse/assault to me, and they saw me immediately jumping to the conclusion that people cry sexual harassment when things aren’t going their way, would they still trust me?”
Ponder on that. Really mill it over. Sleep on it. Wake up feeling refreshed and ready to tackle sexual violence (and unsafe staffing ratios). I want to see a 10-page paper on my desk tomorrow over the nuances of being a woman in an overtly fetishized, female-dominated profession. Really explore the themes of capitalism and classism. Remember 30% of your class grade rides on this paper, not to mention you having to earn the trust back of every woman in your life. Please do not turn in some crap at 11:59pm. I will know.
I do believe new grad contracts are predatory. I think most new grads expect to work hard and be stressed and are completely unprepared for what they actually encounter. I've said this many times: I think there is a huge disconnect between the school experience and what work actually turns out to be.
I also don't buy the "$100,000. +" pricetag to "train" a new grad. Why should an orientation program cost more than the actual nursing program? If there's any truth to that, maybe it's time to reconsider the old hospital-based nursing programs. Or maybe hospitals should look into better retention strategies instead of going the route of fresh meat and indentured servitude.
But you lost me with the above quoted post. It came across as condescending and sexist. I really hope it wasn't your school that generated this rhetoric. If so, they're even more predatory than your erstwhile employer.
Most lawyers will do a consultation for free, it might be worth doing this. Even if they can't help you, you'll possibly find someone you mesh with in case (when) you have future legal issues or questions.
I ended up leaving my first nursing job early and breaking my contract. Why? I was sick of being constantly understaffed and felt very unsupported by management. I also simply realized that I hated adult med-surge. I was also very anxious. I'm not trying to whine about it - at the end of the day it just wasn't a good match for me. And I am very grateful for the valuable experiences that job gave me. Thankfully, I didn't have to pay because my new job was not at a competing hospital. I'm curious as to what your contract said exactly, if you would be willing to share...
While I do agree with everyone that you should read and understand a contract before signing it, sometimes life happens. Sometimes you need to prioritize health and happiness over "sticking it out." That is your prerogative. If you can stick it out, good for you - but I don't think anyone should feel guilty for leaving a nursing job (especially one that makes you feel unsafe).
I actually know many people who left their positions before the contract was up, one for (mental) health and a few for relocations. However, I'm pretty sure none of them had to pay. I'm not sure if you tried fighting it yet, but it might be worth giving it a shot...
I'm sorry that is has been a bad experience for you. Nursing is a very hard job, especially as a new grad during a pandemic. I do believe the problem is systemic. Hospitals should treat their employees better and listen to their complaints if they want them to stay.
One last thing - I understand that new grads cost money. But, at least in my case, I wasn't given the orientation and training I was promised. I won't get in to details... but I cannot fathom how it could have possibly have cost them that much.
The only dealing I've ever had with an HCA hospital is as a new grad applying for jobs. Recruiter called me to arrange an interview. I took the morning off work. Manager of the med-surg unit did not end up showing up for the interview. I spent an hour sitting in the recruiter's office while she did paperwork, and we were both waiting for this manager to come down. Eventually, recruiter called the manager again and then told me the manager wouldn't be able to make it and that she (the recruiter) would call me next week to reschedule. Never heard from them again.
While I do agree with everyone that you should read and understand a contract before signing it, sometimes life happens.
I feel like a person needs to be prepared to pay what they agreed to pay if the issue is just that life happens.
It's gotta be more than that. It has to be that there was significant deception and advantage-taking involved or that in some significant way things are way worse than what was portrayed.
This can't be about how people shouldn't have to pay because life happens. I know what you mean and I do have empathy, but think about the innumerable reasons that people may decide they need to prioritize happiness, for example--which is something that looks a little different to each person. If things are reasonably above board on the company's part, one shouldn't just default on the commitment as a matter of personal preference and expect to do so with impunity.
I've been very vocal against the contract practice so far, but personally if things were pretty much as I was told they would be during the hiring process but it just turned out that I liked it less than I thought I would, I would certainly feel compelled to honor my word/contract if I decided it was worth it to get out.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
On 4/10/2021 at 6:54 PM, CreamCheeseRangoons said:
I just want to work in an environment that is free from sexual harassment and has safe working conditions. That is a reasonable expectation from your employer.
Mandatory BSN will shink the supply and hospitals will have to start paying attention to retention strategies like giving their ASN's tuition assistance will still setting a time limit on getting the degree. As long as they crank us out like hot dogs, we will be treated like a cheap commodity. We have to figure this out.
Mandatory BSN will shink the supply and hospitals will have to start paying attention to retention strategies like giving their ASN's tuition assistance will still setting a time limit on getting the degree.
All the hospitals in my area request the ASN grad to have a plan for BSN completion upon hire.
I recently agreed to a 2 year contract with a sign on bonus to boot. Truth is I would've signed without the bonus. I got my preferred specialty with an ADN. I'm not certain of the cost to train me but I'm certain that during my training preceptor will have to care for their 2 patients and keep a very close eye on my 2 patients. This is a cost that is hard to quantify but certainly affects the unit's patient load. I'm not thrilled about the contractual agreement but I was familiar with the unit, the culture and talked to a few nurses including travelers about their views of the unit.
There are two sides to this argument. These contracts certainly are "predatory" in a sense but the hospitals have been getting burned by new grads who frankly couldn't give a damn about quality patient care and only want the experience so they can travel or become NPs and make the big bucks.
When I completed my practicum and told my preceptor that I was hired into the ICU she was so upset, she told me she wanted to go to the ICU so she could go to CRNA school. Now she's going to NP school after a year....She graduated with a BSN.
I will just post this link. I think in training a new grad, many hospitals have opted to go to residencies like mine which inflates that number much higher. Our new grads do like 4 weeks of in classroom training, 12 weeks of orientation, then there is a mentor program to these new orientees in the ICU units. We invest a lot into our new grads. We don’t require contracts and we lose money on them. I always used to be pro hire new grads into the ICU. I was myself a new grad in the ICU. I’m not anymore.
While I think 16 weeks of additional training seems nice, this unfortunately is not the norm for new grad residency programs. The one I was in said 12 weeks orientation (4 wks on 3 different units before choosing your favorite) and a few extra classes online and a CPR refresher, along with a 'liason' that helps keep track of progress. We were also told if 12 weeks was not enough we could ask for 1 or 2 more. Reality was 8 weeks then I had to politely fight for more time because they thought it was time for me to make a decision already. In the end I was still shorted a week and the liason was less than helpful. I heard from her probably once a month and she was terrible at answering emails. I did not even know which unit was my home unit after I turned in my choices because at that point they were done with me.
ALSO, the preceptors that people keep saying need to be paid to help new grads, at my hospital, are not paid ANYthing extra. They come in their normal shift and sometimes they might have an orientee and sometimes they won't. All the burden of training a new grad is put on them with no extra pay or benefit. So this does not cost the hospital any more money. From my experience the only additional training that I would receive versus a nurse with experience being hired is the extra little classes. Both get "12" weeks training (if you're lucky), and have a preceptor during that time.
ALSO, all the hospitals in my area (like the OP) have contracts that you must work there for 2 years to be accepted into the residency program and they DO NOT hire new grads outside of the residency program. This FORCES new grads to sign a 2 year contract no matter where they go (this is with no sign-on bonus for those that do not realize what a new grad residency means). This is why I had such a difficult time deciding which hospital I wanted to work for because I hate contracts ( they smell of red flags ). I was lucky, however, that one hospital just changed to a 'promise' instead of a contract when I was applying and that is the ultimate reason I went with them. This is why OP said these contracts are normalized...because new grads have no other choice.
On 4/11/2021 at 4:21 PM, LovingLife123 said:
OP, you did not originally state that there was sexual harassment. You stated what you felt were unsafe staffing ratios during covid. We all worked that way. My ICU was stretched dangerously thin. A big discussion on my unit was how horrible we all felt that we couldn’t give our normal great care during covid. Many days it was, well everyone is alive, I did my best.
You are the one being rude and condescending. If you spent any time on here at all, you would know I’m not a troll and I’m a regular contributor.
I absolutely do not feel sorry for you that you are now required to pay back money. If you didn’t get a sign on bonus what did your contract state that you had to pay back? What is the monies owed then? You can’t pay back money you earned for work, so what is this penalty? As an adult, you should scrutinize any contract you sign. You should also have an attorney read it as well. They can advise you.
The OP does not have to state she was sexually harassed. It is clear she did not WANT to disclose she was sexually harassed because that wasn't the purpose of the post. The purpose of the post was to find other peoples stories of predatory New Grad Contracts. She can choose to deal with the sexual harassment in another way, that was not her purpose to do on this forum. And IMO LovingLife, you were very condescending, whether or not you are a regular contributor really has no bearing on that fact. You also assumed she got a sign-on bonus for the contract she signed instead of asking. I can't answer your question to her specific contract about what amount she has to pay back because I don't know her but I do know that typically there is a dollar amount assigned to the new-grad residency contracts stating what amount you will have to pay back (their $$ lost for training you). The dollar amount attached to the hospital I work for was $20k before they decided to try it without a contract. And I believe she already addressed the lawyer statement before you stated it.
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I think this is such bullcrap that a nurse, like all of us on the forum, comes here to gather stories and then gets attacked from all these different posts and not one person has actually posted a story that she asked for in the first place. I wasn't even going to comment on this post because I hate it when the topic strays but I have to say something. We are supposed to be supportive of each other and more often than not we FAIL at that. It doesn't honestly matter what OP's experience was, she asked for stories... so if you didn't have a story, then why are you choosing to pick her apart instead of giving her a story?! This is part of the problem! This is part of the mentality that nurses eat their young! This is unacceptable!
Kudos to OP for standing up for herself in this forum and quitting a job that was toxic. If we do not stand up for the things that make our lives worse, things will never change and we will always be battling those things that make our lives worse. Just because it always has been doesn't mean it always has to be.
The one I was in said 12 weeks orientation (4 wks on 3 different units before choosing your favorite)
I have never heard of something like this. How do they predict staffing after orientation?
I am retired but taught for years. Our graduates were able to acclimate to a unit and their role in a week or two. I realize I graduated in caveman times but I only had a week of classroom and 1 day of clinical. (my preceptor called in sick for the second day). We knew our role well enough to ask for help.
After one year of employment I received my bonus. I held on to that year before moving on.
In the last years of work I didn't see orientees stressing out. I knew them from school and they were dealing well with the new responsibilities. I wonder if these schools are offering the residencing (not so much for orientation) but more to lock them in the 2 year period.
I have never heard of something like this. How do they predict staffing after orientation?
I am retired but taught for years. Our graduates were able to acclimate to a unit and their role in a week or two. I realize I graduated in caveman times but I only had a week of classroom and 1 day of clinical. (my preceptor called in sick for the second day). We knew our role well enough to ask for help.
After one year of employment I received my bonus. I held on to that year before moving on.
In the last years of work I didn't see orientees stressing out. I knew them from school and they were dealing well with the new responsibilities. I wonder if these schools are offering the residencing (not so much for orientation) but more to lock them in the 2 year period.
You make your choice, but management still has to approve which unit you will be on. If your choice is fully staffed (like they ever are), then they would look at your second choice, etc.
I'm not sure how nursing was when you graduated so I cannot really speak to that but I do know that I chose a more difficult unit to gain more experience and we are pushed to the limits. We are always at our max patient/nurse ratio. They got rid of phlebotomy so nursing staff is responsible for ALL labs. Even during my time off of orientation, there aren't always people to ask questions. We have had an entire staff of new grads fending for themselves multiple nights. I mean you can ask upper management but you may not get an answer and then you end up getting yelled at by doctors for not doing something when you did everything in your power to get it done (including asking for help), which adds stress to the next nurse coming on shift because more needs to be done. They typically start new grads out on night shift as well and there is only one nursing supervisor that works at night so they are pushed to their limits as well... which leads back to staffing issues. It's just a full circle it seems.
TriciaJ, RN
4,328 Posts
I do believe new grad contracts are predatory. I think most new grads expect to work hard and be stressed and are completely unprepared for what they actually encounter. I've said this many times: I think there is a huge disconnect between the school experience and what work actually turns out to be.
I also don't buy the "$100,000. +" pricetag to "train" a new grad. Why should an orientation program cost more than the actual nursing program? If there's any truth to that, maybe it's time to reconsider the old hospital-based nursing programs. Or maybe hospitals should look into better retention strategies instead of going the route of fresh meat and indentured servitude.
But you lost me with the above quoted post. It came across as condescending and sexist. I really hope it wasn't your school that generated this rhetoric. If so, they're even more predatory than your erstwhile employer.