Praying in the work place

[RipeTomato]

Hi everybody,

I'm three months into my new job as a hospice RNCM and have been learning a lot. I generally love, love, love my job.

My question today is about praying in the workplace. I know that Medicare requires a spiritual counselor on staff, but I also know that patients can refuse that service.

At my work place, meetings have recently started to begin with prayer lead by the SC. This seems a bit odd to me, coming from years of experience in the work world where things like prayer before meetings did not happen.

Also, I hear a lot of statements from fellow workers that I find offensive regarding patients having a hard time with EOL because they "don't have a belief system." They have a belief system, it just may not be the same as other people. From my limited experience, it seems people die differently, not relatable solely to their belief system. Some with strong beliefs have a hard time, others who don't believe find peace at the end.

I will pray with my patients all they want if that brings them peace and comfort, but prayer in the work place feels like a violation.

Thoughts?

[NICU Guy, BSN, RN]

Right, either everyone's equal or no one's equal.

Starting a meeting with a Christian prayer is absolutely no different than staring it with a Wiccan ritual. Or a prayer to the flying spaghetti monster. All equally out of place in that place at that time.

Starting a staff meeting with a prayer to the flying spaghetti monster would be something I would look forward to. LOL

[One1, BSN, RN]

I'd like to ask some questions here, if it's ok.

For the non-religious people-same questions. Plus, why would you be "offended" (wow, that word is thrown around so much today, huh?) if a religious person wanted to pray with/for you? even if you're an atheist why do you not just be content that the other person is trying to be there for you?

It is offensive because it forces somebody else's lifestyle (in this case, the act of praying) on somebody who does not want this act of praying. I am a spiritual person but not religious, and I cannot stand it if somebody asks me if I pray or offers to pray with/for me. I do not pray and I do not want to be involved in praying. Just "choosing to ignore it" still means I am subjected to it, but I do not WANT to be subjected to it. I do not want to participate in it, not even passively. I respect other people's religious choices and have no problem with them praying in their own time away from me. I do not think that I should have to spend time staying quiet while you pray, as it is wasting my time. Interestingly, in my very personal experience over the years, I find that none of my Jewish, Hindu, or Pagan friends ever ask me to pray with or for me. It always ends up being over-eager Christians who do that.

[Tinker88]

Not the time or place. Do you see them praying on Wallstreet? What about in research labs? Police departments? Nope. Not the time or place.

Posting from my phone, ease forgive my fat thumbs! :)

.

Well... I'm currently a teacher at an elementary school...our faculty prays for our students and each other:)

[Mulan]

I suspect very much that these people would object very loudly if tomorrow their manager opened the meeting with a prayer from the Qur'an.

If this were a Muslim country, fine. It's not.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

If this were a Muslim country, fine. It's not.

It's not a Christian country either. The US is a democratic republic, not a theocracy.

[Mulan]

It's not a Christian country either. The US is a democratic republic, not a theocracy.

Yeah, I knew this would come up.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

If this were a Muslim country, fine. It's not.

*** What kind of country is it?

[St_Claire, ADN, RN]

Why are so many of you so angry about people praying? I don't care who the person is, people have the right to assemble and pray in public even if you are a Jew, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or whatever! And doesn't research support the idea that praying soothes the mind and helps stress? If so then maybe the work place wants to put their employees minds at rest. I don't know....I don't see the big deal. Maybe your hospital considers itself as a family like my work place does. Families pray together and in every family you have those who pray and those who do not pray, but the members of that family still care for each other.

Nurses' experiences, expectations, and preferences for mind-body practices to reduce stress

Spirituality and Prayer Relieve Stress | World of Psychology

Seniors Use Prayer To Cope With Stress; Prayer No. 1 Alternative Remedy

http://www.iomcworld.com/ijcrimph/files/v02-n05-05.pdf

There's even more research that states meditation does all those things and MORE.

[St_Claire, ADN, RN]

It's funny, we can get desensitized to why EOL patients would have a 'crisis or faith'. We're all going to be there one day.

There are so many benefits to appealing to a higher power when you aren't in control of your own body. Having one's mind and thoughts on the hope of a positive outcome to their situation keeps people and even animals alive in stressful situations. Scientist did a study on rats put into buckets of water, one in total darkness and one with a light in the corner of the room. The first rat drowned after 30 minutes. The second rat swam over 36 hours because the light gave it a continual reminder of a way out. Prayer is very much like the light. It increases the will to survive and puts people at peace. There are tons of studies on the positive effects of prayer:

"Furthermore, prayer may have an effect on patients' responses to disease processes. A 2011 study of inner city youth with asthma by researchers at the University of Cincinnati indicates that those who practiced prayer and meditation experienced fewer and less severe symptoms than those who had not (Schiffman, 2012). Also, research suggests that patients who are religious have speedier recovery times after major medical procedures. Research at Dartmouth Medical School found that patients with strong religious beliefs who underwent elective heart surgery were three times more likely to recover than those who were less religious (Schiffman, 2012)."

I respect the autonomy of people who don't believe in prayer. It's their right. But it doesn't mean others' should not be able to pray simply because people who don't want too are present. If you don't want to, don't. But, my dear friends,may I please add, it works. God is up there and He is good!

As a Buddhist I do not believe in hope the way you define it here. Hope means I am looking to the future for my happiness instead of being present in this moment (and this one...and this one...) therefore holding hope out to me is meaningless to me and you are taking away the very essence of my belief: Presence in this moment.

[St_Claire, ADN, RN]

Okay, everyone chant with me:

Vast is the robe of liberation

A formless field of benefaction

I wear the Tathagata's teaching

Saving all sentient beings.

(Chant the above three times in a monotone; once for Buddha, once for Sangha, and once for the Dharma. )

Now, how meaningful was that to you? For me it is my morning ritual that puts me in tune with my spiritual beliefs. It has great meaning. To me. For you it may sound ridiculous, or nonsensical, you may look around for robe-wearing bald-headed men. How about joining me for morning sitting before every meeting or at the start of every day?

Now stand in my shoes and tell me how your prayer, your belief system, should soothe and comfort me.

[PRICHARILLAisMISSED]

Quotefrom PRICHARILLAisMISSED

I'd like to ask some questions here, if it's ok.

For the non-religious people-same questions. Plus, why would you be "offended" (wow, that word is thrown around so much today, huh?) if a religious person wanted to pray with/for you? even if you're an atheist why do you not just be content that the other person is trying to be there for you?

It is offensive because it forces somebody else's lifestyle (in this case, the act of praying) on somebody who does not want this act of praying. I am a spiritual person but not religious, and I cannot stand it if somebody asks me if I pray or offers to pray with/for me. I do not pray and I do not want to be involved in praying. Just "choosing to ignore it" still means I am subjected to it, but I do not WANT to be subjected to it. I do not want to participate in it, not even passively. I respect other people's religious choices and have no problem with them praying in their own time away from me.I do not think that I should have to spend time staying quiet while you pray, as it is wasting my time. Interestingly, in my very personal experience over the years, I find that none of my Jewish, Hindu, or Pagan friends ever ask me to pray with or for me. It always ends up being over-eager Christians who do that. Interestingly, in my very personal experience over the years, I find that none of my Jewish, Hindu, or Pagan friends ever ask me to pray with or for me. It always ends up being over-eager Christians who do that.

One1...

I'd like to respond to your post (#73) in order of the bolded portions:

It is offensive because it forces somebody else's lifestyle (in this case, the act of praying) on somebody who does not want this act of praying.

Nothing is being "forced" on you by another wanting to pray for you, or of them asking you to pray with them. You can simply decline. Let's not exaggerate, please.

Just "choosing to ignore it" still means I am subjected to it, but I do not WANT to be subjected to it.

Being a part of a society, One1, we all to some degree are subjected to things we do not agree with. For example, I do not want to be "subjected" to the views of intolerant people, but unless they're hurting someone, I just have to put up with them. It's just part of the deal. And you say you do not WANT to be subjected to it like it's the equivalent of being drug into a dungeon and being tortured... a bit dramatic, dont'cha think?

I do not think that I should have to spend time staying quiet while you pray, as it is wasting my time.

Come on...Just one sentence prior to this you state that you "...respect other people's religious choices...," yet it is too much to ask of you to be quiet while they take a minute (or less in many cases!) to do something that is very meaningful to them. (BTW, you can also just walk away from them, you know? you don't have to stand there and listen...) What do you think it means to respect other people's religious choices? Do you just think that it means that you don't openly criticize their beliefs? Seriously, how much can you really respect their religious choices and beliefs if it bothers you to stay quiet for half a minute? BTW I'm not attacking you, but if you reread your post you should understand why I ask these questions.

[PRICHARILLAisMISSED]

I think you meant this response for someone else lol.

But frankly, As long as those Wiccan rituals weren't hurting anyone (or animal, yes I believe in animal rights) then I wouldn't have a problem with it-I wouldn't participate, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Apr 26 byitsnowornever

Apr 26 byitsnowornever A member since Jun '09 - from 'Ca'. Posts: 921 Likes: 674

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Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED

I believe that if anyone really has a problem with the SC starting meetings off with prayer, they should just not participate. I just don't understand why it's such a big deal. I know that technically due to regulation 66.6 blah blah blah that yes, it may be a violation, but so what?

It's a hospice! People there are on a death sentence (I say this not to be cruel, but that is why they're there...), so whether the law wants prayer in the workplace or not, I say it would be best to let this one go, and if the facility wants to act on it then it's there perogative. But If I were a Nurse there I would just go about my business.

So again, you wouldn't complain if it was wiccans wanting to perform their rituals?