Posters that are not nurses

[Cattitude]

i'm going to keep this nice and polite i promise mods!:)

i'm just hoping that one of the smart student/new nurse posters can answer this.

i know that we have quite a few people on here that do not have the title nurse, either rn/lpn. we have some great, intelligent students,new nurses,cna's, techs, etc. most of them add a lot of interesting elements and variety to the posts and i enjoy reading them.

however, i really want to know something. i have noticed this with several other posters(not the above ones) on several occasions. why on earth would someone that is not a nurse think they could ever tell a nurse how to do their job? or think that limited clinical experience is enough to say they know what a nurse does?

i mean, i would never think of say, jumping in a thread telling ob nurses how they should do something or how they could do it better. i've never done ob (not counting school)

i guess this is just frustrating as it seems people think it's so easy to do this job! it's not, it has hard times, fun times, sad,break your heart in two times. but it's not a job that you can learn how to do in a few semesters of school. it takes years. fortunately, i think that most of our students here know that and respect that.

so, what's the thought on the ones that don't know? is it their egos? overconfidence?

i'm really interested in replies.

[Bill Levinson]

however, i really want to know something. i have noticed this with several other posters(not the above ones) on several occasions. why on earth would someone that is not a nurse think they could ever tell a nurse how to do their job?

i would never dream of telling a md, rn, or lpn how to do his or her job. since i have considerable experience and several professional certifications in the quality management field, however, i am probably more qualified than most medical professionals or hospital administrators to talk about how the system in which medical professionals must work should be designed.

if you show me five malpractice cases (or so-called "nurse errors"), i can show on average how four of them would have been prevented by a decent quality management system.

there is a huge difference between telling a doctor or nurse how to do his/her job and designing systems so they can do their jobs without being tripped up by the system itself.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

i would never dream of telling a md, rn, or lpn how to do his or her job. since i have considerable experience and several professional certifications in the quality management field, however, i am probably more qualified than most medical professionals or hospital administrators to talk about how the system in which medical professionals must work should be designed.

if you show me five malpractice cases (or so-called "nurse errors"), i can show on average how four of them would have been prevented by a decent quality management system.

there is a huge difference between telling a doctor or nurse how to do his/her job and designing systems so they can do their jobs without being tripped up by the system itself.

as long as you tell us respectfully -- that's all we ask!

[Cherybaby]

Just another point of view here:

I graduated the PN program back in 1999. I just took my NCLEX last week. An ugly divorce back in 99 prevented me from taking my boards. Before long, 8 years had gone by and while I had a lot of "medical assistant" experience (because I never took my boards) I came here a lot to read up on what the "REAL" nurses were doing. I used to look at the posts with such longing, never really feeling right about posting anywhere else but the student forums and the NCLEX forums, even though I was no longer a student...nor was I taking the NCLEX.

Every once in awhile though, I felt compelled to jump into a conversation because a brand new nurse (RN or LPN) would say something so ludicrous, so completely off base, because they didn't have any nursing experience. Me? I had 8 years of experience in private practice, long term care, surgery and wound care...but no license. Still, I knew much more than the student who had those precious initials after their name. Experience does count for so much. Anyone who is a nurse for any length of time knows that perfect textbook nursing is rarely, if ever, seen in a hospital setting. Even on the NCLEX, it is still "perfect world" scenario. We all know, far too well, that meds are not always on hand, doctors don't write perfect orders and patients don't often appear with so called classic symptoms of anything! :chuckle

Still, I feel that students sometimes have a lot to offer, mainly because of their rose colored glasses. When a fresh faced nurse would come onto the floor and I would be told to "show her the ropes" I would giggle sometimes when I would hear a new nurse say, "when does the PT/CNA come around to change linens?"

Oh, sister. Do you have a LOT to learn!

Their attitude though, is contagious. They are so willing to learn, absorbing knowledge, trying to implement what they have learned into their new position as a nurse. Even though I have 8 years experience...I have to admit, adding the initials to my title made me feel a bit...loftier, for lack of better term!

I think that if we all just open our ears and close our mouths every so often, we would see that we all have a lot we can learn from one another. The old jaded nurses can remember way back when we all had that rosy glow...and the new bloomers can understand that the real world is a lot different than the classroom!

Just my ten cents...due to inflation.

Cher, brand spanking new LPN with experience to boot!

[withasmilelpn]

I would never dream of telling a MD, RN, or LPN how to do his or her job. Since I have considerable experience and several professional certifications in the quality management field, however, I am probably more qualified than most medical professionals or hospital administrators to talk about how the system in which medical professionals must work should be designed.

If you show me five malpractice cases (or so-called "nurse errors"), I can show on average how four of them would have been prevented by a decent quality management system.

There is a huge difference between telling a doctor or nurse how to do his/her job and designing systems so they CAN do their jobs without being tripped up by the system itself.

I think most errors could be prevented by having more staff, period. :trout: Nurses probably should not have to multitask as much as we do. Balls get dropped when you are juggling too many of them. While I do think I might appreciate your viewpoint, I hope that when you design the quality controls that you speak of, they are discussed with the healthcare providers for their input and ultimate effectiveness.

[smk1, LPN]

I know I will get flamed for this.... but why is anyone , allowed to become a member of a NURSES bulletin board, if they are not a nurse? It says over and over again, that this is NOT a public forum, so why is it allowed? I personally come here for support, guidance and understanding from fellow NURSES. I think its just another example of how nurses are walked on, disrespected in general, and is an example of our "selfless" image... (which is bull, imo) I can bet you that you dont see other disciplines on a doctors bb, I can tell you that. Why? because it is not accepted. its just how I feel... if its a nursing board, at least try to keep it one. (meaning just for nurses... meaning REAL nurse, ie: LPN/RN/CRNA/NP) not students, not surgical technicians, not cna's, not home health aids, not personal care techs, not wives/husbands of nurses, not unit secretaries...thie list goes on!!!!

Wow, and the post that set me on fire has arrived. I say that those who want a nursing board that ONLY has nurses (no students or allied health) should take the time and energy to make one themselves where they can set the rules. This board is Brian's creation and he can run things the way that he sees fit. If you get rid of everyone who is not a licensed nurse this board will shrink and the posts will be few and far between. The money taken in from memberships that helps support the site will shrink as well. This isn't a sorority or fraternity and people who are open to the experiences of people from all backgrounds might actually learn and benefit from all of the non-nursing posters.

P.S-- student doctor network has licensed MD/DO, pharmacists, nursing, allied health veterinarian forums etc...

[Bill Levinson]

The people for whom I have no respect are hospital administrators and executives who create bad systems and then discipline the nurses when inevitable problems result. If a nurse (or medical intern/resident) makes a "mistake" because she has been forced to work for sixteen straight hours because the hospital administrators didn't hire enough people, my inclination would be to fire the administrators and not the nurse/intern. The administrators are responsible for making sure there is adequate staff, and anyone with any brains knows that you don't make anyone do a life-critical job (e.g. fly a passenger airplane, drive a 30-ton truck on a public highway) when they are exhausted, unless there is a genuine emergency like a war or a disaster in which there is no choice.

[MS._Jen_RN, ASN, RN]

I have also learned how much nurses really do. As a lay person you just don't realize how smart, educated and trained nurses really are. I have also seen how much nurses care. I have often felt it was nurses that kept things running and I see now that is very much true.

That made my :redbeathe happy. Thanks Batman.

Peace,

~Jen

[withasmilelpn]

The people for whom I have no respect are hospital administrators and executives who create bad systems and then discipline the nurses when inevitable problems result. If a nurse (or medical intern/resident) makes a "mistake" because she has been forced to work for sixteen straight hours because the hospital administrators didn't hire enough people, my inclination would be to fire the administrators and not the nurse/intern. The administrators are responsible for making sure there is adequate staff, and anyone with any brains knows that you don't make anyone do a life-critical job (e.g. fly a passenger airplane, drive a 30-ton truck on a public highway) when they are exhausted, unless there is a genuine emergency like a war or a disaster in which there is no choice.

Thankyou! It's not only that staffing when we are 'short', that concerns me, like the having to work 16 hours etc.. It's the staffing period. In LTC especially there seems to be no concensus or acknowledgement as to what is needed to staff 'safely', no consideration regarding acuity or amount of work like admissions, discharges, or increase in patients with behaviors or high fall risks. Nevermind PICC's and rehab patients that require much more nursing care. Sometimes I have as many as 10 high risk fall patients at my nurses desk with 56 total patients needing care between 4 CNA's and 2 Nurses. Do the math and it's easy to see how we can not possibly keep everyone safe!

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

The people for whom I have no respect are hospital administrators and executives who create bad systems and then discipline the nurses when inevitable problems result. If a nurse (or medical intern/resident) makes a "mistake" because she has been forced to work for sixteen straight hours because the hospital administrators didn't hire enough people, my inclination would be to fire the administrators and not the nurse/intern. The administrators are responsible for making sure there is adequate staff, and anyone with any brains knows that you don't make anyone do a life-critical job (e.g. fly a passenger airplane, drive a 30-ton truck on a public highway) when they are exhausted, unless there is a genuine emergency like a war or a disaster in which there is no choice.

Exactly!

[gitterbug]

This sure is interesting. I love many of the posts, been laughing at some. I guess I never thought about being insulted by some of the questions, cause I know I have asked some silly ones. Anyway, asking is learning, teaching is learning, learning is learning. I have many roles, so sometimes the mother answers, sometimes the sister answers, sometimes the sick patient answers. I may not get it right always, but I do not mean to abuse of offend. I attempt to remember the golden rule and then I guess I just let it fly. Blessings to all.

[kiki2]

there are times when i feel like my experience is being judged by students.

i distinctly remember when i was in school we newbies would always say "can you believe she recapped a needle?", "i can't believe what she just said about that patient behind her back?", "she is sloppy"...."i'm never going to be a nurse like those nurses there, they are so unprofessional"....and the best yet "i'm never going to make a med error".

i guess what goes around comes around. new nurses and students have such high ideals and standards, and many are extremely harsh in their judgements.

i don't let a few of them bother me because i know where they are coming from, and i know with experience what goes around comes around.

then and only then will they understand.

in the meantime it's a great big world here at allnurses with all kinds of people and experiences and opinions. i don't let the negative ones, or the ones that bother me in particular get to me too much. after a moment's irritation i'm over it. :)

omg i am laughing right now. everything you said in that first paragraph is soooo true. i have heard many fellow students say the same thing. i keep my mouth shut, you never know one day you might be working with that person and you may need their help with something.besides i am not the judging type. maybe i can shed some light on the situation since i am still in school. they drill certian things in your head and scare you so much that when you see a nurse do something that you were taught not to do, it freaks you out. a student still should not make any comments on anything another nurse does or doesn't do. i have worked in a couple of different places and each one has a different way of doing things. so to my fellow students----- do not judge other people and dont sweat the small stuff

ex: recapping a needle. thats just silly!

[pavanneh]

I guess the first thing that popped into my head was what I call and some others call "nurseitis". Symptoms start to appear soon after graduating nursing school. Suddenly no one is as good or knowledgeable as a nurse. My sister and my best friend have both done this to me. I have been in the medical profession for over 20 years in various roles. EMT, EMT-P, Hospital Corpsman, Cardiovascular Technician-Noninvasive and Invasive, Respiratory Therapist and yet I am often reminded that what I know is not as valued as what a nurse knows, by nurses mostly. It hurt my feelings to no end and made me angry, when my friend told me that "well, that's okay, you're not a nurse, so you wouldn't know". Don't undersestimate that value of what other technicians and personnel know. Whether they are nurses or not. They may have alot more insight and knowledge than you think. Please understand that I do know and appreciate that a nurse's job is not easy. I am still considereing getting my RN. But, I am also very understanding from the standpoint of technicians and others that may not as "valued".