Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.
This med aide position in North Carolina has not passed yet--it is, however, a proposal being highly touted by the North Carolina Board of Nursing of all people :angryfire NC nurses need to fight this thing tooth and nail!!!! So sad, our own board wanting to give away such a vital piece of our profession and place so many patients and bedside nurses at risk. To make matters worse, this position will not be in assisted living facilties such as group homes (non-licensed personnel can already pass meds there, which is bad enough)--this will be in acute care facilities, such as skilled nursing homes and hospitals. Many nurses across the state are feeling very disillusioned with our board right now....
I totally agree with your position....how do we fight the NCBON on this? I haven't graduated yet, but I intend to run for an at-large seat after I graduate (unless I'm kept out by the very pro-BSN NCBON), but is there a way for us to directly affect this? As part of my patient teaching in the clinical setting, I *always* tell my patients the name, purpose, and adverse effects of every drug, and encourage them to ask for that information from anyone giving them meds. But what else can I do personally? I certainly don't want my family members getting meds from someone with so little training....and, working as a CNAII in a major hospital, I would *never* trust some of the CNA's I work with to deliver anything but the most basic care for me or my family! How on earth can this be happening??
I'm a new Nursing Student who is pursuing her BSN. When I applied to the program 2 and a half years ago (thats how long the wait list is), I was told that I had to apply for the RN program. This was due to the fact that as of this month, January 2005, the Province of British Columbia will no longer issue Nursing Liscences to LPN's.
I am a new MA. Thought i would come over here and see what i could learn on this site. What i find is what seems to be a bunch of people who are stuck on a ego trip. You sould go back and reread your posts. You sould be welcoming ma's.RN's you complain your over worked. But you complain about MAs who would love to help you out with the lesser duties so you can be freed up to due the harder stuff. You worked hard to become a RN. No one can replace you and what you due. Lord knows i dont want your duties.
Your right we sould have a state test like LPNs. I worked hard that last 7 months. Since i have not taken a state test (We do have a cert test to become a CMA) does that mean i am a uneducated monkey? Only good enough to do vitals and empty urinals?? I learned a lot in class/lab. I darn well know enough to read the drug book before i give a med and know the effects/counter indication and all that. Why i am giving it. I take pride in what i do and i ask questions when i do not understand something so i will know it the next time.I have been a EMT for 5 yrs. I never claim to be a Medic. I have my duties and Medics have there duties. I help them and they help me. Not every call needs a medic and some do. We work well with each other. I have really enjoyed it. I love taking care of people. I worked hard for what i know and i keep up every month with con ed and taking other class's. I am always reading books and online reading sites like this. I have had 2 back injuries so i no longer want to do ems so i can save my back. I took the MA program (Untill i can take the LPN program which there is a wait). I worked hard the last 7 months. We all have our place and duties. We need to get along and work with each other. CMAs are not going away. LPNs sould not feel like we are trying to take their jobs. We sould have to take a boards like you guys/ladies. I have heard pn here about how MA's are a danger. I have seen some scary scary nurses in the nursing homes and doctors offices i have picked up at. One of my last pts on squad almost died because a nurse at a VA facility didnt do a simple blood sugar on a pt. I have taken way to many pts from nursing homes to the er for stuff that sould never have happened. I know this post was long but this is how i feel (Sorry for the grammer mistakes, i am dead tired from a long evening shift).
John
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Pardon my ego trip but I worked for years.....not months...to get my RN. Not only work but blood swear and tears! My livelihood and my families livelihood depends on my job and the decisions I make at work. As an RN I could loose my license as well as my home , my reputation, and my sanity by allowing a CMA or any other unlicensed person to give meds or work under my license. I haven't had to deal with this yet and hope and pray I don't. Please remember that not everyone taking the CMA course has the background or the motivation you seem to have. We are all entitled to our opinions and it is not my intention to hurt anyones feelings but for us as RN's and LPN's there's alot at stake here.....personally and professionally. If I loose my license I can't get another job ....what does the average CMA have to loose?? I agree there are some careless nurses and there have been times when I've refused to be charge nurse for that very reason.
Before you judge us so hard get your RN degree, take your boards.....really get a good feel for what you are responsible for. Working as the charge RN on the hospital floor is alot different than the EMS ride to the hospital, drop them off and go on to the next one. One thing I learned when working in the ER is the EMS team is good at what they do but it's a whole different world in the hospital. I know a few people who went from EMS to RN and it certainly changed their view on us.
In the hospital I work in, they recently increased the level of responsibility for LPNs. They can now flush central lines and give IV meds in the form of parfills premixed by the pharmacy. They can also do central line dressing changes. The hospital does require that LPNs take a class and demonstrate competancy before they can work with central lines.
In MA as an LPN we could do everything an RN could except pronounce death hang blood by ourselves, and of course some IV pushes. We NEVER used unlicensed for med passes in LTC or hospital and the *** living all had nurses also. But here in Las Vegas they are trying to use unlicensed for anything they can. Soo Sad
Cheryl
I find this interesting because the hospital I work in has just stopped hiring LPN's. They say that according to the nurse practice act an LPN can't do an assessment so they aren't hiring any more and are strongly encouraging the ones currently employed to get their RN. I don't agree with this at all. I learned alot from the older LPN's right out of school. They were more willing to take me under their wings and teach me the ropes than the other RN's were.
As for the assisted living thing....some of the assisted living facilities around here have people working and passing meds that have a hard time forming sentences. They just take anyone that walks in off the street and teach them to give meds, and insulin. SCAREY!!
BC no longer has diploma RN diploma education. All RN's are now to be trained/educated as BScN.
The LPN is alive and well in BC. Educational institutions are still offering programs and there is a waitlist. Last I heard, it was 2+ years for VCC. We are prepared to do physical assessment, medication administration, wound care, etc. Where I received my education we assessed newborn to elderly and did visual acuity exams.
Perhaps you should run your info by CLPNBC. They have just mailed out all of our licenses for 2005. The Provincial government is looking at expanding our scope of practice and offering advanced training courses for LPNs.
I hope you check all your facts in nursing school before blindly passing on information.
BC no longer has diploma RN diploma education. All RN's are now to be trained/educated as BScN.
The LPN is alive and well in BC. Educational institutions are still offering programs and there is a waitlist. Last I heard, it was 2+ years for VCC. We are prepared to do physical assessment, medication administration, wound care, etc. Where I received my education we assessed newborn to elderly and did visual acuity exams.
Perhaps you should run your info by CLPNBC. They have just mailed out all of our licenses for 2005. The Provincial government is looking at expanding our scope of practice and offering advanced training courses for LPNs.
I hope you check all your facts in nursing school before blindly passing on information.
Apologises...obviously I will have to review my sources. Thank-you for bringing this to my attention.
I am a new MA. Thought i would come over here and see what i could learn on this site. What i find is what seems to be a bunch of people who are stuck on a ego trip. You sould go back and reread your posts. You sould be welcoming ma's
I'd like to welcome you here John, and then ask you WHY you would come over to NURSING board and tell us how egotistical we are. I went to school for a whole bunch of years to become a Registered Nurse. If that's egotistical well then that's what I am...and d*** proud to say it. I am also relieved to see you are not an uneducated monkey.
Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.
VickyRN,
I totally agree with your position....how do we fight the NCBON on this? I haven't graduated yet, but I intend to run for an at-large seat after I graduate (unless I'm kept out by the very pro-BSN NCBON), but is there a way for us to directly affect this? .....I would *never* trust some of the CNA's I work with to deliver anything but the most basic care for me or my family! How on earth can this be happening??
I know how you feel, Rachel. This whole thing has almost an eerie Twilight-zone air of surrealism about it. I feel like anytime I'm going to wake up and this thing isn't going to be real How could our own Board (which we, in the past, have always hallowed and looked up to as our beacon and standard) be doing this to us
My advice is to contact our state legislators, write letters to the editors of all the major newspapers in the state, contact the television media--in other words, make a lot of noise at the "grass roots" level. I believe that this proposal does have to pass through the NC legislature for approval, but we have been unable to receive clarification... our Board has been very selective in the information revealed to us and very secretive about the specific mechanics of how this proposal actually will become law.
Of course, send in the "form" to the NCBON before February 25 and write in your comments about their med aide proposal (you have to write it in, since there is no place on their form designated for this proposal :angryfire ): http://www.ncbon.com/forms/DraftEducationRulesFeedbackForm.pdf
And a warm thank-you for your activism on behalf of nurses and patient safety in our state!
:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
I work in an all RN facility. When they phased out LPN's years ago, they gave them the choice to go back to school (hospital paid and held their benefits intact) to become an RN or become a CNA. I know that LPN's are still utilized in many parts of the country.
As for medical assistants? I don't like the copncept and never did. There are too many errors made and too many misconceptions out there with them.
I guess I could see a CMA in a physician practice but in a hospital environment? No. Never.
So JCAHO won't let licensed nurses assess but they'll let unlicensed people give meds? Surely others see something wrong with that whole picture?
Another way to try to get cheaper alternatives to nurses. Operating under the assumption that nurses are just skilled at performing tasks and have nothing else to offer. How sad.
Do I really have to go on another spiel about how nurses are there to make judgment calls, tend the whole person (not just the physical), and as many med errors and potential med errors as I've seen new grad nurses make, I would be horrified to ever let an unlicensed person give meds to my patients. No. When a nurse has gone through what a nurse has to go through to be a nurse, what message is this sending to him/her? That what you went through is really nothing? Something to be devalued because we can train somebody faster and work them cheaper to do what you do? No, you can't do that. There is no way a few months' education can train someone (who doesn't have a license to lose) in the intricacies of what WHAT they're giving the patient can and will do to that patient in a certain situation, when to hold the medication (sorry but "hold med if a or b happens" won't cut it. There are just times when a nurse "knows" something isn't quite right and will hold it pending a further assessment) and what to look out for when giving it.
I don't like it. People aren't machines and I swear it seems the powers-that-be seem to want to treat the patients and the nurses as exactly that.
I'll be glad when all this cycles on out. I'm just not sure what will happen that will spur that.
Oh and for the record - I've worked with LPNs who have better assessment skills and better judgment and just all around better NURSES than a lot of RNs I know. I don't see phasing them out. I do think we need to sit down and re-define the roles though. We can better utilize the nurses we HAVE instead of worsening the shortage by putting so many out of work. I don't think JCAHO is doing anyone any favors here by defining nursing roles. We have nurse practice acts for that.
Specializes in pedi, pedi psych,dd, school ,home health.
When I went through the LPN program in 1980, I was told the t I should hurry up and get my RN, as I wouldnt have a job in 5 years....well, I earned my ADN on the (almost) 20 year plan, graduating in 200. It was my LPN expoerience that helped me get thru the RN program...and graduate within the top 10 in my class,both clinically and academically. I wouldnt trade the hands on experience I received for all the degrees and book knowledge I have received since then (senior in BSN program now) . LPNs are a very valuable part of the nursing team, and deserve all of our respect and assistance. I know one local hospital who actually demoted them to "patient care techs" and forced them to go to school or take a pay cut!!! Now, that hospital is laying off RNs because of financial trouble...go figure!!!
To make matters worse, this position will not be in assisted living facilties such as group homes (non-licensed personnel can already pass meds there, which is bad enough)--this will be in acute care facilities, such as skilled nursing homes and hospitals. Many nurses across the state are feeling very disillusioned with our board right now....
Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN
12,126 Posts
How judgemental of you. :)
Not if they're be refered to as or refering to themselves as "nurse". And that's where i have a problem with it.