I taught CNA's awhile at a local LTC center who employed one med aide. His job was to give routine meds. All PRNs were to be deferred to the nurse, as well as a list of drugs including Digoxin, Coumadin, narcs, and a few others per facility policy. "The med aides function like family would at home' is how it was explained to me.
???
Of course, one exception is that in a facility, the NURSES have the liability for monitoring for side effects of ALL meds, as Vicky notes. With the nurse-pt ratio in LTC that leaves little time for thoughtful effective monitoring.
I sympathize with LTC nurses and sure wouldn't want their liability. The push for UAP's over nurses seems even worse in LTC than acute care, unfortunately.
As long as nurses keep doing the job and don't speak up, stuff like this will snowball. Nobody cares but nurses about the great and increasing liability we shoulder.
Can someone please tell me why I'm going to school. Is what people are saying as true as it sounds? Am I just wasting my time and money to become an LPN and eventually and RN just to have CMA's take over my job after a couple weeks training?? Can anyone make me feel better about this situation?
Depends what state your in. Many states are getting rid of CMA's and some are aquiring them. Getting your LPN is a step into the right direction. Its not really a waste of time since you can challenge out of nursing 1 and 2, placing you in nursing 3. So in reality your not losing any ground towards your RN. The benefit is your making better money going into nursing 3 with your LPN as well as the knowledge and hands on experience.
I am a new RN now (in a hospital), and was an stna for 8 years in LTC. I spent the last two years prior to graduation in group homes for clients who have MR/DD. As a residential assistant (same duties as an stna) we were allowed to pass meds! We of course had to take a med course and pass a test to be able to do so. It scared me. Yes, I was in nursing school at the time, and had some idea of the SE's of some meds, and when to hold some, and when to give others, but I was still in no way liscenced to do so. None of the residential assistants that I worked with the last two years ever made a mistake that caused any harm to anyone, but I still don't think they should be allowed to pass meds.
As far as LPN's go, I work with some exceptional ones at my hospital! My MIL is an LPN, and she knows what her scope of practice is, and knows when to get the RN. All of the others I have worked with are very conscientious, knowledgeable about their scope of practice, and overall amazing nurses, they are valuable, and we would be at a loss if they were phased out!
To a previous poster from Ohio who stated that all she had to do to become an stna was send in money and thats it, it didn't happen that way for me. I had to take classes for 3-4 weeks, and I DID have to take a test to become a nursing assistant (In Ohio). This was back in 1994 though, I don't know if the laws about education of stna's has changed since then though.
One last question I hope someone could answer, does anyone know if LPN's can take physicians orders in an MR/DD setting? I always see new meds on the MAR, signed by the LPN, and no RN signature to accompany it. I still substitute in the group homes as a residential assistant, I am just wondering if this is acceptable for an LPN in this type of setting.
Hello all, just expressing another opinion of mine....
When I began doing my prereqs at my local technical college in 2000, I told an advisor that I wanted to be an LPN first get some experience working, and then get my RN. He told me that LPN's were being phased out and they did not have and LPN program. Well, I just graduated this past May(2004) and what happened in January 2004? That very same college began an LPN program!! I also read on here that ADN nurses may also be phased out and something to the affect of they aren't as popular as they once were. Well where I live, a particular college is the fasting growing college in the area, and they have a TWO YEAR waiting list for the nursing program. What kind of nurses will they be? ADN's and LPN's of course!! If ADN's ARE phased out within the next 2-3 years, then I will just have to back for my BSN, sooner than planned. I wanted to wait until all of my children were in school, and I had some experience in nursing before I went back, but if it came down to it, and I couldn't practice nursing without being a BSN, then you better bet your backside I will work for my BSN! I love nursing, and I would never let anyone take that from me!
Hello all, just expressing another opinion of mine....
When I began doing my prereqs at my local technical college in 2000, I told an advisor that I wanted to be an LPN first get some experience working, and then get my RN. He told me that LPN's were being phased out and they did not have and LPN program. Well, I just graduated this past May(2004) and what happened in January 2004? That very same college began an LPN program!! I also read on here that ADN nurses may also be phased out and something to the affect of they aren't as popular as they once were. Well where I live, a particular college is the fasting growing college in the area, and they have a TWO YEAR waiting list for the nursing program. What kind of nurses will they be? ADN's and LPN's of course!! If ADN's ARE phased out within the next 2-3 years, then I will just have to back for my BSN, sooner than planned. I wanted to wait until all of my children were in school, and I had some experience in nursing before I went back, but if it came down to it, and I couldn't practice nursing without being a BSN, then you better bet your backside I will work for my BSN! I love nursing, and I would never let anyone take that from me!
They will never get rid of LPN's in your lifetime. They will never get rid of ADN's in your life time, your kids life time and maybe even your grand kids.
Just lots of talk and speculations that have been going on for years and years........Whats funny is many states are increasing the role of the LPN.....
i believe everything is getting rather worrisome in the nursing field--no matter where you're at. i believe hospitals and other health care areas should stick to the licensed and registered nurses with medications. no one "right off the street" needs to pass medications with all the precautions and exceptions a good old nursing judgement can take. no one in the medical field should be replaced, we're all needed.
as for as the lpns being phased out, well, that puts my hiney on the burner. i'm an lpn of 15 years. always wanted to be a nurse. like being a nurse. but if lpns are to be phased out we should be allowed to test and get our rn (anywhere in the usa. nowadays alot of the lpns don't have the finances or the time (nearest schools being 45 minutes one way). i'd like to see some legitamite online nursing schools without the clinical (after x amount of years i think a clinical is rather moot). many lpns are very capable. just like other branches of the nursing team, there are some rns and cnas, etc i wouln't want treating/caring for my family.(goes for lpns too).
i wish we could all get together(from coast to coast; top to bottom) for some kind of nursing association, like firefighters and police for benefits upon retirement for extras when we do.
thanks for your time with my little session!
why can't any of the big shots who sit in their ivory towers see that an lpn should be given the oppportunity to completly test out for the rn license. i see why. they would have to pay us a reasonable wage. they then wouldn't have to bring an unlicensed person off the street and give them a 2 week course. and they (the employer) will most likely pay for the course because they will get reimbursed. on the flip side alot of the fly by night schools will get goverment money to teach these classes and they only get the money if the person passes. what does that tell us. this is very very scary. we need to band together across the country and get everyone names who has been involved in this and file suit to protect our license. we can do this. we also have the right to be a part of any discussion regarding this. lets get off our butts and do something.
I don't think LPNs are going anywhere too soon!!! I have been an LPN for 10 years and always found jobs I like. I just finished my ADN program and am happy to move along, but in no way do I regret being an LPN. I however don't think LPNs should just be allowed to test out of the NCLEX RN. I worked very hard to do my generals and nursing courses and think if anyone wants to be an RN they should also. I do, however, think if LPNs are phased out employers need to give assistance to get RN training and allow so long to attain it. I realize having been an LPN so long that we do a lot of overlapping skill areas but we still all must meet certain criteria to be able to sit for RN boards. ALL nurses are needed--unlicensed assistive personal in general are what has creeped into our territory. Insurance companies and sometimes employers like it--cheaper labor but unfortunately NOT the same skill...we need to stand up against this.
Reading that automatically made me think of my step-Granddad missing 2 days of step-Grandma's Lopressor last year.
(She now has a private nurse, a nurse that happens to be in the family, and me)
What exactly is the job description of a Med Aide, and the training that is provided to one? I ask this because here up north (Vancouver, Canada) where I reside, I have never heard of such a career. I work in LTC/Acute Care as a Nursing Assistant and am going in for my LPN at the end of Feb/05, yet this Med Aide career puzzles me. Is this just primarily in just the States? I am curious - thanks to all those who take the time to answer these questions for me!
I am a new RN now (in a hospital), and was an stna for 8 years in LTC.
I'm sorry, but there are so many abbreviations, I just can't figure some out. What is an stna?
I sure hope they don't phase out LPNs. Altho I'm nearing retirement I sure would hate to see it happen.
I really don't understand how some {the so called higher ups, think it will help}.
If all LPNs go on to become an RN are they going to pay all those people RN wages?
Traditionally, in Arkansas, in LTC, we have a DON, and maybe a relief RN or or two, and maybe one to cover on weekends, the rest are LPNs to provide 24 hour coverage, pass meds, treatments, calling the doctors, etc, you know the routine. Also, normally, on nights, nursing coverage is an LPN, with an RN on call.
So I'm thinking, if all the LPNs are replaced with CMAs, is the RN coverage going to remain the same? If CMAs are going to do most of the med passes and treatments, what the LPNs have previously been doing, then the facilities are going to be run by CMAs......does this sound like the scenario they are preparing for our moms and dads, and grandparents we place in the care of nursing homes?
Just what are they going to put in those positions previously held by LPNs...All RNs at higher pay or CMAs at lower pay?
LTC here, in Arkansas, is becoming more like hospitals everyday. What used to get a patient admitted to the hospital is now treated in the nursing home.
It's just beyond me, how they think this will work.
STNA means State Tested Nursing Assistant. Some one else had mentioned that when they became a CNA all they had to do was send in some money and that's it, they were a CNA. A CNA is a Certified Nurses Aide, which is a title that I was told is no longer used the appropriate title is STNA.
I'm sorry, but there are so many abbreviations, I just can't figure some out. What is an stna?
I sure hope they don't phase out LPNs. Altho I'm nearing retirement I sure would hate to see it happen.
I really don't understand how some {the so called higher ups, think it will help}.
If all LPNs go on to become an RN are they going to pay all those people RN wages?
Traditionally, in Arkansas, in LTC, we have a DON, and maybe a relief RN or or two, and maybe one to cover on weekends, the rest are LPNs to provide 24 hour coverage, pass meds, treatments, calling the doctors, etc, you know the routine. Also, normally, on nights, nursing coverage is an LPN, with an RN on call.
So I'm thinking, if all the LPNs are replaced with CMAs, is the RN coverage going to remain the same? If CMAs are going to do most of the med passes and treatments, what the LPNs have previously been doing, then the facilities are going to be run by CMAs......does this sound like the scenario they are preparing for our moms and dads, and grandparents we place in the care of nursing homes?
Just what are they going to put in those positions previously held by LPNs...All RNs at higher pay or CMAs at lower pay?
LTC here, in Arkansas, is becoming more like hospitals everyday. What used to get a patient admitted to the hospital is now treated in the nursing home.
It's just beyond me, how they think this will work.
I am a new MA. Thought i would come over here and see what i could learn on this site. What i find is what seems to be a bunch of people who are stuck on a ego trip. You sould go back and reread your posts. You sould be welcoming ma's.RN's you complain your over worked. But you complain about MAs who would love to help you out with the lesser duties so you can be freed up to due the harder stuff. You worked hard to become a RN. No one can replace you and what you due. Lord knows i dont want your duties.
Your right we sould have a state test like LPNs. I worked hard that last 7 months. Since i have not taken a state test (We do have a cert test to become a CMA) does that mean i am a uneducated monkey? Only good enough to do vitals and empty urinals?? I learned a lot in class/lab. I darn well know enough to read the drug book before i give a med and know the effects/counter indication and all that. Why i am giving it. I take pride in what i do and i ask questions when i do not understand something so i will know it the next time.I have been a EMT for 5 yrs. I never claim to be a Medic. I have my duties and Medics have there duties. I help them and they help me. Not every call needs a medic and some do. We work well with each other. I have really enjoyed it. I love taking care of people. I worked hard for what i know and i keep up every month with con ed and taking other class's. I am always reading books and online reading sites like this. I have had 2 back injuries so i no longer want to do ems so i can save my back. I took the MA program (Untill i can take the LPN program which there is a wait). I worked hard the last 7 months. We all have our place and duties. We need to get along and work with each other. CMAs are not going away. LPNs sould not feel like we are trying to take their jobs. We sould have to take a boards like you guys/ladies. I have heard pn here about how MA's are a danger. I have seen some scary scary nurses in the nursing homes and doctors offices i have picked up at. One of my last pts on squad almost died because a nurse at a VA facility didnt do a simple blood sugar on a pt. I have taken way to many pts from nursing homes to the er for stuff that sould never have happened. I know this post was long but this is how i feel (Sorry for the grammer mistakes, i am dead tired from a long evening shift).
mattsmom81
4,516 Posts
I taught CNA's awhile at a local LTC center who employed one med aide. His job was to give routine meds. All PRNs were to be deferred to the nurse, as well as a list of drugs including Digoxin, Coumadin, narcs, and a few others per facility policy. "The med aides function like family would at home' is how it was explained to me.
???
Of course, one exception is that in a facility, the NURSES have the liability for monitoring for side effects of ALL meds, as Vicky notes. With the nurse-pt ratio in LTC that leaves little time for thoughtful effective monitoring.
I sympathize with LTC nurses and sure wouldn't want their liability. The push for UAP's over nurses seems even worse in LTC than acute care, unfortunately.
As long as nurses keep doing the job and don't speak up, stuff like this will snowball. Nobody cares but nurses about the great and increasing liability we shoulder.