:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
I have also been an LPN for many years (37). There has been discussion for
that many years in regard to phasing out LPN's. The large metropolitan hospital that I worked in 37 years ago attempted to do that and hire only
RN's. They found out it was financially unfeasible. I know there is a trend to utilize UAP's (unlicensed personnel) to do certain clinical procedures (ie; IV's,
foley catheters, etc. after a short training period of about 9 weeks). I feel that facilities that implement this as a means to save money are only jeopardizing the quality of care that their patients receive. I may just be an
LPN, but I feel that my clinical skills & knowledge surpass many RN's that I
have worked with. I maintain my ACLS, PALS, & NRP & stay current on trauma treatment. I have done case management, utilization review, hospital QA, Nursing QA, diabetes education, worked in PACU & surgery on occassion,
& have worked in Nursing Administration for several years & am involved with
maintaining compliance with regulatory requirements. I am an active committee member in HQA, NQA, Safety & Infection Control. I feel that I
contribute a great deal to my facility & can identify with both the Administrative aspect of nursing as well as the "hands-on" patient care. Even if I was a Phd RN I would still feel that it would be a mistake to phase LPN's completely out of existence.
in north carolina, there is a controversial new proposal by our board for a medication aide. this is an unlicensed person who will be able to administer medications in acute care facilities after only a 9-week or so course.
of course, this wonderful "med aide" (who will undoubtedly be payed minimum wage) is operating under the rn or lpn's license: "as defined in nursing law and rule, the licensed nurse may only delegate technical components of medication administration to unlicensed personnel. nursing judgment and decision making related to when or if a medication would be administered by the med aide and monitoring the client's response to medications are responsibilities of the licensed nurse that may not be delegated to assistive personnel."
this med aide position, if enacted, will undoubtedly put many lpn's out of work across the state of north carolina. this new unlicensed position will also endanger the practice of many rn's across the state. can you imagine the nightmare of being responsible for 30 patients and having medication aides dispensing medications right and left under your license?
i personally feel very disappointed and puzzled by the actions of our board, right now. i know that our board was never meant to be the "nurse's friend;" like all state boards it exists to protect the interests of the public from nurses who are incompetent and to ensure "safe, effective nursing care." our board is unique in that it is elected (the only one out of 50 states elected by the nurses of the state)--and we nc nurses have always been very proud about this. however, this latest action goes directly against the interests of the public in our state and will make nursing practice in our state very unsafe indeed.
maybe if we let the media get ahold of this infromation they could fight this battle for us
I don't know how these RN's sleep at night with the aides passing routine meds on their license.
QUOTE]
From some of the posts I've read, LPNs are being held responsible also, for CMAs.
I imagine that happens frequently....LTC especially staffs LPN's in charge of supervising aides and med aides. BUT there is always an RN with ultimate responsibility (even if it is the DON.)
PS if you read my entire post you will see my comment was NOT derogatory towards LPN's so please don't misconstrue my intent.
I hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the butt...
I live in Maryland, and am a CNA (working on nursing prereqs.). My training was 60 hours theory, and 40 hours clinical. At the end of my hours there wasn't a "board," or test to take. I sent in $20 for my certification, along with a letter of recommendation from my school: I'm a CNA!
I don't think CNAs should be allowed to become a CMA. We are trained to wipe butt, bathe, and take vitals; hence, have no clue about body functions, and response to meds.
I believe CMAs are dangerous!
Please don't take offense to this, but that's shocking! I'm sure you are a good CNA but imagine some of the people just come of the streets and do that. In NY state you have to take courses and clinicals and then pay $150 to take the test which is VERY strict. I agree that this CMA business is VERY outragous, I would NEVER allow my family to be passed meds by them. I'm sorry but a couple weeks training is NOT enough to pass something that could kill someone! :angryfire I just don't like this situation at all!!
Can someone please tell me why I'm going to school. Is what people are saying as true as it sounds? Am I just wasting my time and money to become an LPN and eventually and RN just to have CMA's take over my job after a couple weeks training?? Can anyone make me feel better about this situation?
I hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the butt...
I live in Maryland, and am a CNA (working on nursing prereqs.). My training was 60 hours theory, and 40 hours clinical. At the end of my hours there wasn't a "board," or test to take. I sent in $20 for my certification, along with a letter of recommendation from my school: I'm a CNA!
I don't think CNAs should be allowed to become a CMA. We are trained to wipe butt, bathe, and take vitals; hence, have no clue about body functions, and response to meds.
I believe CMAs are dangerous!
In my opinion that is absolutely nuts. Every state should require a written and a skill test. That could sacrifice good care. I'm not saying that you are a bad CNA but i worked hard to get my STNA. I also don't like to think that i just wipe butts and bathe people. I provide holistic care to people that possibly don't have anyone else. Most of my residents think of me as their own child/grandchild. I am a healthcare provider and a "family member" to them. Being a CNA is a lot more than doing that and i hope you realize this since you are on your way to becoming a nurse.
My sister is (or should I say was ) an RN in a LTC facility . She supervised the building one night and under her "watch " were 2 LPN's and two med aide's. She had to send a pt out for unresponsiveness. She wrote his vitals on the W-10 and noticed his heart rate earlier was 52. Then as she copied the mar she noticed he had been given digoxin. When the fire sparked later SHE was the one who was suspended ! And when she asked how could she had possibly known when she was floating on other floors , the reply was well you are the RN you have to take the heat . The med aide who gave it ? she was sent to another class and returned to normal duties !
I asked in addition to nursing duties , now RN supervisors are supposed to have esp too?
Can someone please tell me why I'm going to school. Is what people are saying as true as it sounds? Am I just wasting my time and money to become an LPN and eventually and RN just to have CMA's take over my job after a couple weeks training?? Can anyone make me feel better about this situation?
It is worth your time to become a LPN...Education is always valuable. I am graduating from LPN school in February, and if your state is phasing out LPns, in PA, you can work on a NICU, step-down unit, ER, LTC, schools, etc...I doubt that every state is phasing out LPNs, and this "phasing out" will not last long...once errors and accreditating agencies will find out that their practices are insane!:rotfl: :rotfl:
My sister is (or should I say was ) an RN in a LTC facility . She supervised the building one night and under her "watch " were 2 LPN's and two med aide's. She had to send a pt out for unresponsiveness. She wrote his vitals on the W-10 and noticed his heart rate earlier was 52. Then as she copied the mar she noticed he had been given digoxin. When the fire sparked later SHE was the one who was suspended ! And when she asked how could she had possibly known when she was floating on other floors , the reply was well you are the RN you have to take the heat . The med aide who gave it ? she was sent to another class and returned to normal duties !
I asked in addition to nursing duties , now RN supervisors are supposed to have esp too?
this is absolutely scary!:rotfl: :rotfl: I have been a nursing assistant for 4 years in acute care, and since I'm in nursing school, several nurses have asked me "when you're done, please give these meds," and I have said "no"! Even when I worked in ER, I had to do catherization, and I understand it now more as a LPN student than as a NA! (I wonder how many pts had or din't have UTIs!) Even as a worked the other night, I have experience drawing blood, and a nurse asked me to do it. I did get the blood sample, but I was a little nervous b/c I think that is not within my scope as a"floor" NA...but i guess b/c i'm graduating next month...I feel I need to stay within my scope-as a NA, LPN, RN. :uhoh21:
As an LPN or and RN (eventually) i will never take a job where CMAs are used. I will not take the heat for non-nursing staff giving medications, so i will not put myself in an area where that's a risk. I want to see my patients get their meds, i do not want to hear someone say they gave them, see their initials on the paper, and just assume they were given.
Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.
my sister is (or should i say was ) an rn in a ltc facility . she supervised the building one night and under her "watch " were 2 lpn's and two med aide's. she had to send a pt out for unresponsiveness. she wrote his vitals on the w-10 and noticed his heart rate earlier was 52. then as she copied the mar she noticed he had been given digoxin. when the fire sparked later she was the one who was suspended ! and when she asked how could she had possibly known when she was floating on other floors , the reply was well you are the rn you have to take the heat . the med aide who gave it ? she was sent to another class and returned to normal duties !
i asked in addition to nursing duties , now rn supervisors are supposed to have esp too?
i agree, scary, very scary look at what the ncbon has to say about rn and lpn accountability with their illustrious medication aide proposal:
nursing law permits the delegation of tasks to unlicensed assistive personnel including the medication aide by the registered nurse and licensed practical nurse. the registered nurse is accountable for validating the qualifications, knowledge and skills of the medication aide as well as for the on-going oversight of the performance of activities by the medication aide. the lpn may participate in the delegation to and supervision of the medication aide in situations where the technical activity of medication administration has been delegated by the licensed practical nurse and provided there is the continuous availability of the registered nurse as stipulated in nursing law and rules. accountability for any professional judgments or decision-making surrounding medication administration is the responsibility of the licensed nurse and may not be delegated to the medication aide.
(emphasis added)
north carolina nurses, we need to fight this thing tooth and nail. if this thing does pass, i, for one, will never work in an acute care situation with medication aides operating under my license.
look at what the ncbon has to say about rn and lpn accountability with their illustrious medication aide proposal:
OKNURSE
22 Posts
I have also been an LPN for many years (37). There has been discussion for
that many years in regard to phasing out LPN's. The large metropolitan hospital that I worked in 37 years ago attempted to do that and hire only
RN's. They found out it was financially unfeasible. I know there is a trend to utilize UAP's (unlicensed personnel) to do certain clinical procedures (ie; IV's,
foley catheters, etc. after a short training period of about 9 weeks). I feel that facilities that implement this as a means to save money are only jeopardizing the quality of care that their patients receive. I may just be an
LPN, but I feel that my clinical skills & knowledge surpass many RN's that I
have worked with. I maintain my ACLS, PALS, & NRP & stay current on trauma treatment. I have done case management, utilization review, hospital QA, Nursing QA, diabetes education, worked in PACU & surgery on occassion,
& have worked in Nursing Administration for several years & am involved with
maintaining compliance with regulatory requirements. I am an active committee member in HQA, NQA, Safety & Infection Control. I feel that I
contribute a great deal to my facility & can identify with both the Administrative aspect of nursing as well as the "hands-on" patient care. Even if I was a Phd RN I would still feel that it would be a mistake to phase LPN's completely out of existence.