Here's my two bits on this issue. I work in Canada and I've found that my scope of practice has been limited by the RN's union when it comes down to bare bones. In LTC we usually had one RN to three LPN's. Depending on the facility LPN's did the insulin but no narcotics, did oral narcotics but no needle meds. Wound care as required but no removal of staples/sutures.
Acute care now here's the laugh, IV meds have just been introduced to our scope, all narcotics and sc insulins by LPNs. All wound care and suture removal by LPN if the patient was on their assignment. We could take a course (at our own expense) to start an IV, but we would never use the skill because the hospitals in the area used and IV start team approach made up of RN's.
The RN role in LTC was more administrative (paperwork, family conferences, etc.) Some of the RN's would ask the LPN's for wound care advices "because you do way more of this than we do."
The main difference on some acute units between the LPN and RN was $8/hour. Same number of patients, same acuity levels, same amount of stress. We worked it out, once 80% of the RN's skills for 60% of her pay.
Some of the older RN's were hostile to the LPN' who had trained within the last decade. A few actually admitted that a new LPN had more skills than they did when they graduated. One of the best RN's I worked with admitted that the training we had received was roughly the same that she had done under the old hospital training schemes.
The LPN programme we completed was a four semester certificate. In the new year it becomes a stand alone diploma. One theory going around is that the LPN-diploma will take over from the old diploma RN. We certainly had more clinical hours under our belt than new RN's.
Anyways, I just don't think healthcare can afford to underutilize the trained, skilled staff available and I'm just tired of the RN unions being so vocal about being the only "nurses" in the system and the "professional health providers". The working floor nurses appreciated us, it was only their union leaders that had problems with us.
So have a merry christmas and a happy health new Year.:balloons: :balloons:
:) Yes, actually there is more to Rn than Lpn, it is education-wise. Do not get me wrong, Lpn's or Lvn's are very smart and good nurses, but the difference is more education. More courses. Also RN's get taught IV skills and a few other things in clinicals. More indepth on why diseases affect people the way they do. More on Care planning. More on management skills, etc. Just like there are more courses to get a BSN opposed to an ADN or more for a Masters or Doctorate degree. So, yes, it is all more education. You will see what I mean when you get started in your RN courses. We all make choices, some want the Lpn, some want the RN. I chose RN because I know there is a pay difference. Honestly. If you are a young person, I suggest you either go all the way for a BSN or Masters or Doctorate or for becoming a doctor. After all, the time has to go somewhere, may as well go in your pocket toward a great degree! I am only an ADN RN, but wish I had went on for at least the BSN. God bless you in your studies.
You could still get your BSN if you really want to. There are MANY MANY good accredited colleges offering them online now. It is never too late. Trust me I am a 31 yr old highschool drop out who is finally nearing the end of pre-requs and going for gold (masters degree) if I can do it with 4 kids and a under 10 anyone can do it. No matter the age. Just my $ 0.02 worth
CMAs are being used in KY as well to pass meds. The rate of pay is approx $10 per hour. Of course in my present situation, I may have to spend 2 years as a CMA or even a CNA so I can continue working in my field until I can my RN license active.
However, the small hospital i worked in for 2+ years were phasing out LPNs for they saw no need for them. The same is with OP dialysis. The sad part is the RNs in this area are in total agreement with this action :)
The only way to change the business is to hit them where it hurts. Stop allowing yourself to get into situations wherein you are responsible for unliscensed personelle passing meds.
Specializes in Med-Surg, , Home health, Education.
I was an LPN for 15 years before I went back to school and there were also rumors about assosciate degree RN's being called Technical Nurses vs BS RN's as Professional Nurses. I don't think there is any worry about phasing out LPN's, especially in light of the nursing shortage. I do worry that UAP's etc are passing meds. LPN's are still nurses!
There are unlicensed people passing meds in Assisted living, MH/MR group homes...they are not being properly trained to know about side effects and when should their clients go to the emergency room...it's a mess!
I was an LPN for 15 years before I went back to school and there were also rumors about assosciate degree RN's being called Technical Nurses vs BS RN's as Professional Nurses. I don't think there is any worry about phasing out LPN's, especially in light of the nursing shortage. I do worry that UAP's etc are passing meds. LPN's are still nurses!
In Philadelphia, there are so many oppurtunites for LPN's in acute care, doctor's offices, as well as in LTC...I'm graduating in February, so it's a Wonderful time to be a LPN!
CMAs are being used in KY as well to pass meds. The rate of pay is approx $10 per hour. Of course in my present situation, I may have to spend 2 years as a CMA or even a CNA so I can continue working in my field until I can my RN license active.
However, the small hospital i worked in for 2+ years were phasing out LPNs for they saw no need for them. The same is with OP dialysis. The sad part is the RNs in this area are in total agreement with this action :)
I think that is a sad situation. I think sometimes RNs feel as if LPNs are a threat (especally 2 year degree nurses). AD and LPN have the same oppurtunites to a HR department, but with BSNs HR departments feel that they have more oppurtunities in the organization(the reason that there is a big push to have RNs and LPNs return to school) . Organizations are pitting "nurses" (no matter LPN RN BSN-RN) against each other, which means we have no credibility to fight for our clients, patients, as well as for someone to be our co-workers, allowing more burned-out nurses, leading to nurses leaving altogether.
"Nurses" are a sister and brotherhood that should be more respected, but how are we to be respected if we allow phasing-out, replacement of licesnsed workers with majority of UAPs in place of nurses?
:) Yes, actually there is more to Rn than Lpn, it is education-wise. Do not get me wrong, Lpn's or Lvn's are very smart and good nurses, but the difference is more education. More courses. Also RN's get taught IV skills and a few other things in clinicals. More indepth on why diseases affect people the way they do. More on Care planning. More on management skills, etc. Just like there are more courses to get a BSN opposed to an ADN or more for a Masters or Doctorate degree. So, yes, it is all more education. You will see what I mean when you get started in your RN courses. We all make choices, some want the Lpn, some want the RN. I chose RN because I know there is a pay difference. Honestly. If you are a young person, I suggest you either go all the way for a BSN or Masters or Doctorate or for becoming a doctor. After all, the time has to go somewhere, may as well go in your pocket toward a great degree! I am only an ADN RN, but wish I had went on for at least the BSN. God bless you in your studies.
In my coursework in becomming a LPN, I was taught IV therapy, as well as practiced the coursework every clinical rotation; data collection (I believe RN course work labels this assessment); the nursing process, care planning, medication administration across the life span, medciation math, management, ethics..the list goes on and on! I think the only difference in the RN-LPN educational component is that the LPN clinical rotation adds LTC in the clinical rotation. I was able to do Mental Health, Emergency Room, OR, Med-Surg, Maternity Pediatrics-outpatient, inpatient, PedOR. I know that when I graduate in February, I am confident to be a competitive, compertent nurse to be on any haelthcare team, open to learn and be committed to my healthcare team I am hired to, and be able and comfortable in a BSN program when I return to school.
don't believe the illusion...LPNs are educated, and have similar clinical coursework...and will be ready to become RNs, BSNs i fthey want to ...a nurse is a nurse is a nurse:rotfl: .
Dealing a lot with education, when it comes to clinical skills, i'd have to say the LVN/LPN is far more educated in many aspects than the RN. I know many RN's who have graduated and never started an IV, or Inserted a NG tube, or Inserted a Foley, etc..... WHere LPN's have done so. The RN is taught more theory in these areas, but not always the hands on.
Some states, LPN's are nothing more than glorified CNA's, and in some states, LPN's only differ from RN's by the difference in abbreviations. So depending on what state your from, it can differ in the role of the LPN.
Instead of bickering on role titles, we are all here to care for patients, we just have different roles and job descriptions. So the RN is not any better than the LPN which is not any better than the CNA. We all have different job functions, with the same goal, excellent patient care and patient outcomes.
So its hard to base the LPN versus RN versus LPN argument unless you base it on a state by state basis, because in some states the only difference is that a RN is in charge, and thats basically it. (This is med surge and so forth, no the ICU or NICU).
Just my opinion.
We used to aruge this when i was just a paramedic...How we are much better then nurses and so forth. WHen i became a nurse, i realized you cant compare a medic and nurse. One is pre-hospital and one is in-hospital.....two totally different approaches to patient care. Its the same with the LPN and RN
:angryfire i have been an lpn for 36 years. for the last 20 i have heard talk
of phasing out lpn's. when i read the local paper all i see is cna, and
cma ads. for all my years i have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of lpn's and they won't have to pay them.
well, i hope and pray that this does not happen. anyone out there agree.
or do you think lpn's should be phased out and there just be rn's and
cna's.
:uhoh21: it is a sad time for lpn's. in kalamazoo, mi, at one of the local hospitals they let all of the lpn's go on nov, 22. fourty eight good nurses lost their jobs. the rn's were told that they would have 4 patients and a cna to help them, but in truth, thet have 5-6 pt and maybe a cna on a good day. i don't know what they are thinking, but i bet that they will regret later.
don't believe the illusion...LPNs are educated, and have similar clinical coursework...and will be ready to become RNs, BSNs i fthey want to ...a nurse is a nurse is a nurse:rotfl: .
Fiona59
8,343 Posts
Here's my two bits on this issue. I work in Canada and I've found that my scope of practice has been limited by the RN's union when it comes down to bare bones. In LTC we usually had one RN to three LPN's. Depending on the facility LPN's did the insulin but no narcotics, did oral narcotics but no needle meds. Wound care as required but no removal of staples/sutures.
Acute care now here's the laugh, IV meds have just been introduced to our scope, all narcotics and sc insulins by LPNs. All wound care and suture removal by LPN if the patient was on their assignment. We could take a course (at our own expense) to start an IV, but we would never use the skill because the hospitals in the area used and IV start team approach made up of RN's.
The RN role in LTC was more administrative (paperwork, family conferences, etc.) Some of the RN's would ask the LPN's for wound care advices "because you do way more of this than we do."
The main difference on some acute units between the LPN and RN was $8/hour. Same number of patients, same acuity levels, same amount of stress. We worked it out, once 80% of the RN's skills for 60% of her pay.
Some of the older RN's were hostile to the LPN' who had trained within the last decade. A few actually admitted that a new LPN had more skills than they did when they graduated. One of the best RN's I worked with admitted that the training we had received was roughly the same that she had done under the old hospital training schemes.
The LPN programme we completed was a four semester certificate. In the new year it becomes a stand alone diploma. One theory going around is that the LPN-diploma will take over from the old diploma RN. We certainly had more clinical hours under our belt than new RN's.
Anyways, I just don't think healthcare can afford to underutilize the trained, skilled staff available and I'm just tired of the RN unions being so vocal about being the only "nurses" in the system and the "professional health providers". The working floor nurses appreciated us, it was only their union leaders that had problems with us.
So have a merry christmas and a happy health new Year.:balloons: :balloons: