Granted, I'm biased; I was an LPN for 12 years. I think they're a valuable part of the health care team, and depending on the institution, can do just about anything. They don't require "babysitting" or the close monitoring that some RN's seem to insist that they do, and the majority are quite capable and knowledgeable about their patients and their care, some even more so than RN's (that was one of several things that made me move on; I've worked with a lot of really um, screwball RN's, and I thought to myself, "If they could become RN's, I KNOW I can). I know the hospital that I work at now, uses them only as PCT's (Patient Care Technicians). Basically they're used pretty much like treatment nurses in LTC facilities, with the addition of doing other tasks such as assisting docs with line placements and complex wound dressings, etc. I think they're used the same way on the floor at my hospital, as well (though I don't see why they can't just carry patient assignments, God knows we need the staffing).
I worked at places that phased out LPN's; I interviewed at one place, and they didn't make that fact known to me until after I got my foot in the door. I ended up working in a "transitional care unit" for 2 1/2 years (thankfully only part time), which i honestly think was nothing more than a place to dump med surg patients and classify the facility as a LTC to justifiy the horrible staffing.
The unit was since closed down (just desserts). But anyway, any other LPN"s have similar horror tales?
I think that CMAs should be phased out, or never should have existed in the first place. I believe that only a licensed nurse should pass meds.
As an RN, I hate being responsible for unlicensed persons' actions. The people who thought up CMAs should have to be responsible for them.
I,m sorry, but I just wanted to set the record straight concerning CMA's. I am currently finishing a 2-year program for my Associates degree in Medical Assisting, and am going to enter a nursing program this winter. The reason that I would like training for both professions is that they are COMPLETLY different. CMA's are trained to work in a physicians office under the direct supervision of the physician. My training includes administrative and clinical duties, with an emphasis on the clinical. I have been trained in phlebotomy, injections (no IV), routine lab tests, assisting the physician in minor office surgery, and ECG's. For 5 years I worked as a veteranary assistant and my duties included phlebotomy, injections, running labs, and assisting the doctor in surgery. This experiance taught me alot, and I decided to take it into the human medical field. My point is that I think that alot of you don't understand what exactly a CMA does, and we should not be put in the same catagory as CNA's or med techs. CMA's DO NOT normally work in a hospital setting, and we are specifically trained for office clinical duties. My education consists of everything you all had to take (A&P, pathology, pharmacology, medical terminology, etc), but we do not learn nursing skills because that is a different profession and is not in our scope of practice! I know that it is common for employers to hire "anyone off the street", but please don't put all CMA's in that catagory. I have worked hard for this, as all of you have, and consider myself a part of the health care team, along with LPN's and RN's, and feel that anyone involved in health care has been trained for a specific job and we should respect that.
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
I dont think that LVN/LPN's should be allowed to "completely test out" to be a RN. There is a deeper level of knowledge that comes with the added lectures and exposer to more complex situations. However, being a LVN, I find it most ridiculous that the LVN to RN schools in my area are closing faster than they opened. We need some better kind of fast track program. With all this "NUrsing Shortage" the nursing education boards seems to be focucing on the generic students ,when they could produce more RN's by putting more time into the LVN/LPN's. Im all for getting off my fat Butt ,Let's do it!!!!:)
Why can't any of the big shots who sit in their ivory towers see that an LPN should be given the oppportunity to completly test out for the RN license. I see why. They would have to pay us a reasonable wage. They then wouldn't have to bring an unlicensed person off the street and give them a 2 week course. And they (the employer) will most likely pay for the course because they will get reimbursed. On the flip side alot of the fly by night schools will get goverment money to teach these classes and they only get the money if the person passes. What does that tell us. This is very very scary. We need to band together across the country and get everyone names who has been involved in this and file suit to protect our license. We can do this. We also have the right to be a part of any discussion regarding this. Lets get off our butts and do something.
:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
In the Uk they phased out the enrolled nurses = to LPN's they are now paying the price and having to come up with a system NVQ's to try and save there hide. I do not feel they should ever phase out LPN.
I,m sorry, but I just wanted to set the record straight concerning CMA's. I am currently finishing a 2-year program for my Associates degree in Medical Assisting, and am going to enter a nursing program this winter. The reason that I would like training for both professions is that they are COMPLETLY different. CMA's are trained to work in a physicians office under the direct supervision of the physician. My training includes administrative and clinical duties, with an emphasis on the clinical. I have been trained in phlebotomy, injections (no IV), routine lab tests, assisting the physician in minor office surgery, and ECG's. For 5 years I worked as a veteranary assistant and my duties included phlebotomy, injections, running labs, and assisting the doctor in surgery. This experiance taught me alot, and I decided to take it into the human medical field. My point is that I think that alot of you don't understand what exactly a CMA does, and we should not be put in the same catagory as CNA's or med techs. CMA's DO NOT normally work in a hospital setting, and we are specifically trained for office clinical duties. My education consists of everything you all had to take (A&P, pathology, pharmacology, medical terminology, etc), but we do not learn nursing skills because that is a different profession and is not in our scope of practice! I know that it is common for employers to hire "anyone off the street", but please don't put all CMA's in that catagory. I have worked hard for this, as all of you have, and consider myself a part of the health care team, along with LPN's and RN's, and feel that anyone involved in health care has been trained for a specific job and we should respect that.
Sometime, depending on the subject, a CMA can mean Certified Medication Assistant or Certified Medical Assistant.
I live in Kentucky, and I'm actually noticing a trend of phasing "in" LPNs in hospitals. I just graduated and interviewed with a major hospital today, and not only do they have around 12 new openings just for LPNs, but they are also willing to hire some new graduates. I'm so excited and just am praying I get one of the positions, because it would be so awesome to get hospital experience right out of LPN school.
Here's the deal-(to me) I worked with a Ma (she called herself a medical assistant) for 7 years in a local doctor's office. She had gone to NO formal
school-no training except on the job. She knew many skills-In fact did pretty well. But the patient teaching was nill- so was the professionalism that comes with nursing. She drew blood, gave meds (yes that's right) and until
I came on gave all immunizations. She got away with anything because she's been there so long(coming in late-leaving early-always on the phone)
And even after seven years there were some patients (only two) but they stick out-that didn't want me to draw there blood-just because they were "used" to her.******* Anyway LPN's should NOT be phase out- and
as many of you know I was just hired in labor and delivery at our University
hospital. I just don't get how this co-worker calls herself a MA when she
did not go to school........all the patients think she is a nurse. They will call
and say "may I speak to one of the nurses?" She will get on the phone! I just don't get it.....!
:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
It would be sad if they did that, as the rn's are not going to do meds and charting, etc, and be in charge. they have the lpn's to do meds and pt care. it would never work. the rn's would be quitting fast. lpn's do alot to help the rn;s, so i don't see how they can even think of doing this.
Here's the deal-(to me) I worked with a Ma (she called herself a medical assistant) for 7 years in a local doctor's office. She had gone to NO formal
school-no training except on the job. She knew many skills-In fact did pretty well. But the patient teaching was nill- so was the professionalism that comes with nursing. She drew blood, gave meds (yes that's right) and until
I came on gave all immunizations. She got away with anything because she's been there so long(coming in late-leaving early-always on the phone)
And even after seven years there were some patients (only two) but they stick out-that didn't want me to draw there blood-just because they were "used" to her.******* Anyway LPN's should NOT be phase out- and
as many of you know I was just hired in labor and delivery at our University
hospital. I just don't get how this co-worker calls herself a MA when she
did not go to school........all the patients think she is a nurse. They will call
and say "may I speak to one of the nurses?" She will get on the phone! I just don't get it.....!
Well, some people are good at faking it.
I live in Arkansas, and in the past, Arkansas has not used MA's, CMAs, or whatever else they go by, but recently, AR tried to get a bill passed to allow CMAs in Arkansas, to give meds. {I still have not been able to find out if it actually passed.}
I'm afraid that this is what it's going to. I sure dread the day when I get old and have to be in an assisted care or nursing home, and know that my meds are set up by unlicensed personnel. If I still have my wits about me at that time, I'll probably want to see their credentials before swallowing anything.
I live in Arkansas, and in the past, Arkansas has not used MA's, CMAs, or whatever else they go by, but recently, AR tried to get a bill passed to allow CMAs in Arkansas, to give meds. {I still have not been able to find out if it actually passed.}
I'm afraid that this is what it's going to. I sure dread the day when I get old and have to be in an assisted care or nursing home, and know that my meds are set up by unlicensed personnel. If I still have my wits about me at that time, I'll probably want to see their credentials before swallowing anything.
beebee-I also feel that LPN's shouldn't be phased out. I remember when I was in nursing school back in 1984. Our instructor was talking about how LPN's were going to be phased out. That was back in 1984. What year is it now?
I think that CMAs should be phased out, or never should have existed in the first place. I believe that only a licensed nurse should pass meds.
As an RN, I hate being responsible for unlicensed persons' actions. The people who thought up CMAs should have to be responsible for them.
From my understanding, CMAs only work in an MDs office and are working under an MDs license, not a nurses license. The MD is ultimately responsible for the CMAs actions. They are not needed in the nursing home, and do not work in a hospital doing direct patient care that the nurse or the aide would do . . . at least this is true in NY, NC, Fl. I can tell you, I was in a CMA program some 13 years ago. I didnt finish because of a personal tragedy in my life, but it was a two year program, and we learned the basics of nursing, nowhere nearly as indepth as what I am learning now, but it gave me a strong foundation.
There are med techs that work in ALFs that only receive FOUR days of training to do a med pass. That, I find appolling. Imagine the med errors there.
in north carolina, there is a controversial new proposal by our board for a medication aide. this is an unlicensed person who will be able to administer medications in acute care facilities after only a 9-week or so course.
of course, this wonderful "med aide" (who will undoubtedly be payed minimum wage) is operating under the rn or lpn's license: "as defined in nursing law and rule, the licensed nurse may only delegate technical components of medication administration to unlicensed personnel. nursing judgment and decision making related to when or if a medication would be administered by the med aide and monitoring the client's response to medications are responsibilities of the licensed nurse that may not be delegated to assistive personnel."
this med aide position, if enacted, will undoubtedly put many lpn's out of work across the state of north carolina. this new unlicensed position will also endanger the practice of many rn's across the state. can you imagine the nightmare of being responsible for 30 patients and having medication aides dispensing medications right and left under your license?
i personally feel very disappointed and puzzled by the actions of our board, right now. i know that our board was never meant to be the "nurse's friend;" like all state boards it exists to protect the interests of the public from nurses who are incompetent and to ensure "safe, effective nursing care." our board is unique in that it is elected (the only one out of 50 states elected by the nurses of the state)--and we nc nurses have always been very proud about this. however, this latest action goes directly against the interests of the public in our state and will make nursing practice in our state very unsafe indeed.
when i was living in nc, (i moved two years ago), there was talk about trying to phase out the lpn, or just keep them in ltc. the hospitals were using na ii to do the work that an lpn would do; the hospital i worked at was giving the lpns 36 months to get their rn licensure or they would be forced to resign. needless to say, the more education and training medical personnel have, the better the patient outcomes. it's a damn shame that hospital administrators (and nh as well) have degrees in business or health care management instead of nursing or md. medical people should be the ones to run medical facilities. but that is just my opinion.
Why can't any of the big shots who sit in their ivory towers see that an LPN should be given the oppportunity to completly test out for the RN license. I see why. They would have to pay us a reasonable wage. They then wouldn't have to bring an unlicensed person off the street and give them a 2 week course. And they (the employer) will most likely pay for the course because they will get reimbursed. On the flip side alot of the fly by night schools will get goverment money to teach these classes and they only get the money if the person passes. What does that tell us. This is very very scary. We need to band together across the country and get everyone names who has been involved in this and file suit to protect our license. We can do this. We also have the right to be a part of any discussion regarding this. Lets get off our butts and do something.
Candidnt
40 Posts
Granted, I'm biased; I was an LPN for 12 years. I think they're a valuable part of the health care team, and depending on the institution, can do just about anything. They don't require "babysitting" or the close monitoring that some RN's seem to insist that they do, and the majority are quite capable and knowledgeable about their patients and their care, some even more so than RN's (that was one of several things that made me move on; I've worked with a lot of really um, screwball RN's, and I thought to myself, "If they could become RN's, I KNOW I can). I know the hospital that I work at now, uses them only as PCT's (Patient Care Technicians). Basically they're used pretty much like treatment nurses in LTC facilities, with the addition of doing other tasks such as assisting docs with line placements and complex wound dressings, etc. I think they're used the same way on the floor at my hospital, as well (though I don't see why they can't just carry patient assignments, God knows we need the staffing).
I worked at places that phased out LPN's; I interviewed at one place, and they didn't make that fact known to me until after I got my foot in the door. I ended up working in a "transitional care unit" for 2 1/2 years (thankfully only part time), which i honestly think was nothing more than a place to dump med surg patients and classify the facility as a LTC to justifiy the horrible staffing.
The unit was since closed down (just desserts). But anyway, any other LPN"s have similar horror tales?