Permanently Kicked out of Practicum

Published

Hi, nurses. I just made this account in order to write my second post. Despite a spotless record as a nursing student, an incident today at clinical may have forever crushed my hopes of ever becoming a nurse. So I'm not a nurse, and I may not even be a nursing student after tomorrow, but I had to come here and seek advice from people in this profession.

22 minutes ago, Rionoir said:

That's not a thing. The agreements the schools have with the hospitals give them the right to decide who stays and who goes.

It doesn't mean that they can't be successfully sued for costing someone money over something as stupid as this.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Mental Health.
10 minutes ago, tonyl1234 said:

It doesn't mean that they can't be successfully sued for costing someone money over something as stupid as this.

That's exactly what it means.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
52 minutes ago, Rionoir said:

That's exactly what it means.

Nope. Again, there's money involved. They have to not just prove that she was talking, but also that it was disruptive even though other conversations were going on. Otherwise, I'm sure a good lawyer can have that hospital paying for her repeat semester.

You cannot just decide for arbitrary reasons that someone is not allowed to finish a clinical and therefore fail. A policy on no talking has to be clear, and communicated. If she got in trouble for talking while other people were talking, this is more ego and "we're above the students" than anything.

A good lawyer could win.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
6 minutes ago, tonyl1234 said:

Nope. Again, there's money involved. They have to not just prove that she was talking, but also that it was disruptive even though other conversations were going on. Otherwise, I'm sure a good lawyer can have that hospital paying for her repeat semester.

You cannot just decide for arbitrary reasons that someone is not allowed to finish a clinical and therefore fail. A policy on no talking has to be clear, and communicated. If she got in trouble for talking while other people were talking, this is more ego and "we're above the students" than anything.

A good lawyer could win.

Please, provide precedent where this has happened. It would take very extreme situations for a lawyer to be willing to take a case of a student not completing a semester on, and even more so to win.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 6/10/2019 at 8:52 PM, Rose_Queen said:

There are times it's appropriate to ask questions. There are times it is 100% INappropriate to ask questions. Sadly, too many students do not understand this.

And quite frankly, as an OR nurse, my opinion is that watching the surgery is 100% useless. The students are not focusing on the role of the nurse in the OR. The associated assignments that I have seen have zero to do with the nursing care of the patient undergoing surgery.

You hit the nail on the head. I remembered going to see my first surgery...ok, exciting. Very informative. After set-up and the procedure got started, my next goal was to stay awake. All we did was stand there. As you know, surgery is on it's own island...but I think from a nursing perspective, time would have been better spent in the areas before and after surgery.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Mental Health.
1 hour ago, tonyl1234 said:

Nope. Again, there's money involved. They have to not just prove that she was talking, but also that it was disruptive even though other conversations were going on. Otherwise, I'm sure a good lawyer can have that hospital paying for her repeat semester.

You cannot just decide for arbitrary reasons that someone is not allowed to finish a clinical and therefore fail. A policy on no talking has to be clear, and communicated. If she got in trouble for talking while other people were talking, this is more ego and "we're above the students" than anything.

A good lawyer could win.

The hospital can absolutely decide to arbitrarily kick a student out. Students are allowed to be at clinical by the good graces of the hospital. If they decide they no longer want certain students there, they don't have to provide any reasoning whatsoever.

Having said that, she wasn't kicked out arbitrarily by her own admission...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
2 hours ago, tonyl1234 said:

Nope. Again, there's money involved. They have to not just prove that she was talking, but also that it was disruptive even though other conversations were going on. Otherwise, I'm sure a good lawyer can have that hospital paying for her repeat semester.

I wouldn't think this is true. The school undoubtedly has contractual agreements with the hospital - wouldn't these include stipulations that protect the hospital's interests and include agreements about decisions they may make with regard to a student's presence?

The hospital doesn't have any contract or obligation to an individual student. The student's business is with the school. It seems like if there were any legal point of contention it would be with the school; possibly plausible that a good lawyer could argue that the school had an obligation to provide another means of finishing the semester (like a different clinical placement) - - but then we're back to that not being likely d/t the student handbook which would stipulate expected behaviors of students at clinical sites, etc. It seems like it would cost more to legally argue this than any possible financial gains.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Addictions, Psych.
13 hours ago, tonyl1234 said:

Important life lesson: Nurses and doctors aren't gods, and students have value.

What value does a student observing (not participating) in a surgery bring to the table? Genuinely asking. I'm a student and I'm 100% aware that sometimes I'm in the way even when we try to be unobtrusive. At my last clinical the floor doctor had me bag a patient while he replaced their trach tube (the bladder was leaking); and it was a privilege, not an entitlement.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
9 hours ago, JKL33 said:

The hospital doesn't have any contract or obligation to an individual student. The student's business is with the school. It seems like if there were any legal point of contention it would be with the school.

Bingo. The fact that Tonyl1234 believe the hospital is culpable is all the evidence I need to know that they don’t have a clue what they are talking about.

I also think the notion that people should become more litigious when they are at fault is disappointing. OP was given multiple warnings and did not heed them. While the punishment was strict it wasn’t uncalled for. OP messed up and compromised her own education. Neither the school nor the hospital is obligated to be lenient.

OP I hope you take this in stride and finish next semester so that you can earn your degree and move forward. You’ve put years of effort into this and while this definitely sucks, you can persevere. Many students repeat courses and go on to have great careers.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×

I think tonyl1234 is being a little cavalier about the cost of litigation, and I'm not just referring to the financial aspect. My husband and I had no choice but to sue someone over a business deal. We were completely in the right and in the end, we won the lawsuit. But it was one of the most stressful periods of our lives. It ruled DH's thoughts, took his attention away from other projects that needed his time, interfered with finding new business, and just dragged on and on and on. It was truly awful.

Lawyers are expensive. Many of the better ones bill several hundred dollars per hour or more. Not all of them work on contingency, and those that do will not take just any case-they take only the ones that they are sure they will win, and only the ones that will bring a payout that makes it worth their time. Clients have to split any settlement or award they get.

Suing someone should only be a very last resort. We hope to never have to go through that again.

The wheels of justice turn very slowly. Suing in this circumstance would just delay the OP's graduation. By the time it finally got resolved (and the chances of winning would be pretty remote to begin with), she could have been long done with school.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
11 hours ago, tonyl1234 said:

Nope. Again, there's money involved. They have to not just prove that she was talking, but also that it was disruptive even though other conversations were going on.

I think you are confusing criminal and civil trials. OP would be the one who would have to provide evidence to support her claim to monetary damages. The school/hospital (whoever was named in the suit) just has to poke holes in the case and demonstrate why this is not the case. It is unlikely a lawyer would take such an unfavorable case for what is likely a very small amount of money (I can’t imagine the tuition for 1 course is excessive).

Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 7/1/2019 at 10:21 AM, Steris said:

I think you are confusing criminal and civil trials. OP would be the one who would have to provide evidence to support her claim to monetary damages. The school/hospital (whoever was named in the suit) just has to poke holes in the case and demonstrate why this is not the case. It is unlikely a lawyer would take such an unfavorable case for what is likely a very small amount of money (I can’t imagine the tuition for 1 course is excessive).

The school would have an official record that she was kicked out of building for talking. If there isn't a clearly communicated policy on that, she already won.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion