Patient/Family Rage

rstewart · Dec 22, 2005

And you are correct, I have not actively practiced nursing since November 28, 1988. That does not make my observations or opinions any less valuable then yours or anyone elses, atleast not in my humble opinion.
The half life of nursing knowledge has been said to be 3-5 years; you have not practiced nursing for nearly 2 decades.
I have been practicing since 1990, and I must tell you that I have seen the practice environment in a steady, progressive decline. The emergence of managed care, vastly declining medicare/medicaid reimbursements, for profit/bottom line first corporate health care, patient satisfaction ala Disney/Marriot.........these factors and others have changed bedside nursing drastically.
The title of this thread is patient/family rage, and with all due respect it is you who are diverting the issue with references to police and caregiver brutality. The fact is innocent nurses are being assaulted, verbally and physically with increasing frequency. And to suggest that a major factor is an inability to skillfully diffuse disputes is clearly a "blame the victim" argument which can not be supported.

fergus51 · Dec 22, 2005

I haven't seen where anyone's said they will meet force witrh force. What i have seen is plenty of people saying that they will not let someone carry out their threats.
Perhaps the U.S. nurses voice a valid concern, that used to be something that wasn't a problem in the past.

I don't know where anyone has suggested assaulting patients as being appropriate either... Maybe I just missed it, but I reread most of the posts more than once and still don't see where anyone said that meeting force with force is the answer.

And it isn't just US nurses talking about difficult situations with family and patients including violence.

fergus51 · Dec 22, 2005

I could say that I think all nurses who respond with force or threats to a patient or a family member are the least professional individuals I have ever come across but I will not. I will not force myself to be that unprofessional.
Grannynurse:balloons:

I don't know where someone said that would be how they would respond to patient/family rage. I have never threatened or responded with force to a patient or family member. In fact, I specifically said that would be unprofessional (Yep, I said it and don't think it was unprofessional of me to do so).

Ruby Vee, BSN · Dec 22, 2005

please do not try to divert this disagreement or the issues being addressed. it is funny, that only here in the u.s. do nurses voice their fear of physical assualts by patients or their families. and it is only here, that nurses feel justified in meeting force with force.
and you are correct, i have not actively practiced nursing since november 28, 1988. that does not make my observations or opinions any less valuable then yours or anyone elses, atleast not in my humble opinion. i could say that i think all nurses who respond with force or threats to a patient or a family member are the least professional individuals i have ever come across but i will not. i will not force myself to be that unprofessional.
grannynurse:balloons:

and yet you are so proud of having threatened physical violence to a nurse that you've boasted about it on at least two threads now.

i would say, having practiced continuously since 1978, that if you haven't been active in nursing in almost 20 years, your opinions are much less pertinent that of someone who has been practicing during that time. the climate has changed quite a bit since 1988. patients and families seem to be less polite and respectful of hospital staff and have an enormous sense of entitlement that wasn't there even ten years ago. there is also a move toward "customer service" in hospitals, which seems to mean that deplorable behavior is tolerated and even rewarded.

i must say, i've read a number of your posts and wondered where in the world you were coming from. knowing that you're inactive in nursing explains a lot!

ruby

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Dec 22, 2005

I don't know if the "customer service" trend is is rewarding outrageous behavior, but within the crze of 'the customer is always right,' the nurse was definitely forgotten.

mumofbratz · Dec 22, 2005

I have to say that while I am not a nurse I dealt with quite a few of them before my father died. It was a very stressful time for me and I never even thought aobut taking that out on the nurses and don't see how anyone could give that excuse. The only time I ever got even halfway out of control was because I went in to see my father like I did every night and the nurse told me that my father had had another heart attack during the day. My response was was to yell 'Why didn't anyone call me?' I calmed down after that but needless to say I was not a happy camper. Every other time, stressed out or not, whether I was the patient or the family member I did not take my frustrations out on the nurses and i think that it is ridiculous that people give the reason of being 'stressed out' to belittle other people and be mean to them.

chadash · Dec 22, 2005

Just had a family member in a nursing home for his last week of life, and I was amazed with the care and concern the nursing staff showed. They even brought us food and coffee. It was above and beyond. I have always tried to provide for families on my job, but this was every one- RNs and CNAs....

grannynurse FNP student · Dec 22, 2005

I'm not trying to divert anything...but alot of your posts on here you really seem to have lost empathy towards bedside nurses after being away all these years, and at times you are extremely critical of us. Sorry, but that's my observation. I was a nurse back in 1988, and things have changed dramatically. Especially in regards to trust, respect and treatment of health care providers.
I don't know what you are talking about in regards to "force by force"...you are the one who threatened to hit or actually did hit a nurse who wouldn't let go of your arm. When all you had to do is yank it away, if that was the really the case. There is no excuse for YOUR threats and use of force against a health care provider. I really have not seen anyone else here advocate what you are talking about.

Let me explain something to you. The RN in question was holding my right fist, while digging into my arm with an angiocath. My left hand was busy holding a nebulizer, I was in the middle of an asthma attack. And I very calmly asked her to stop her digging the first time. She did not, in fact she ignored me. The second request was made with a little more force and a bit louder. Again she ignored me and keep digging. The third request, which was made very loudly, "if you don't stop digging in my arm, I am going to smack you". That certainly got her attention, and the attention of another RN and physician who had treated me in the past. She was instructed to leave the room and both asked me what the problem was. They did not take her side and the other RN started the IV on her first try. The other nurse apologized for the behavior of the first. I told her that HER apology was not necessary and perhaps the offending one could stand an inservice on patient rights.

As for my lack of empathy towards my peers. I have little empathy for nurses who fail to meet their patient's needs, be they physical or emotional. And I have very little empathy for nurses who assume that they are always right and the patient never is. And I have always had this attitude. I have always approached my patients with an empathic attitude. And when I have had a negative encounter, with a patient, and cannot defuse the situation, I tell the patient I will get another nurse who may be able to help him I may not have done any active nursing, since 1988 but people, patients, have not changed that much but nurses sure have. To a lot of them, nursing is just a job, a pay check. And they carry that attitude to the bedside. And if they do not think that a patient cannot pick up on it, they are very mistaken.

Grannynurse

grannynurse FNP student · Dec 22, 2005

And you are correct, I have not actively practiced nursing since November 28, 1988. That does not make my observations or opinions any less valuable then yours or anyone elses, atleast not in my humble opinion.
The half life of nursing knowledge has been said to be 3-5 years; you have not practiced nursing for nearly 2 decades.
I have been practicing since 1990, and I must tell you that I have seen the practice environment in a steady, progressive decline. The emergence of managed care, vastly declining medicare/medicaid reimbursements, for profit/bottom line first corporate health care, patient satisfaction ala Disney/Marriot.........these factors and others have changed bedside nursing drastically.
The title of this thread is patient/family rage, and with all due respect it is you who are diverting the issue with references to police and caregiver brutality. The fact is innocent nurses are being assaulted, verbally and physically with increasing frequency. And to suggest that a major factor is an inability to skillfully diffuse disputes is clearly a "blame the victim" argument which can not be supported.
Gee, can you please direct me to those hospitals that treat patient like they are a guest. I haven't had the good fortune to be a patient in any of them. And I am blaming those who fail to even attempt to defuse the situation. I had been a practicing nurse for twenty plus years. And I have been assualted once. And I completely understood the son's reaction. If I have such a terrible attitude, I should have suffered more. And I have worked in one of the most active ERs in NYC. I suggest that some could certainly practice their skills for defusing threatening situations. Great Britain apparently has the same type of problems but they approach it differently. And with fewer assualts on their staff. "Blame the victim" aren't you doing it when you lay all the blame on the paient?
Grannynurse

grannynurse FNP student · Dec 22, 2005

and yet you are so proud of having threatened physical violence to a nurse that you've boasted about it on at least two threads now.
i would say, having practiced continuously since 1978, that if you haven't been active in nursing in almost 20 years, your opinions are much less pertinent that of someone who has been practicing during that time. the climate has changed quite a bit since 1988. patients and families seem to be less polite and respectful of hospital staff and have an enormous sense of entitlement that wasn't there even ten years ago. there is also a move toward "customer service" in hospitals, which seems to mean that deplorable behavior is tolerated and even rewarded.
i must say, i've read a number of your posts and wondered where in the world you were coming from. knowing that you're inactive in nursing explains a lot!
ruby

i have not worked in 28 years. so what. i do not believe that human dynamics have changed that much since i last practiced. and i have been a patient, in four different hospitals, in four different states. and i have yet to encounter the customer service mode you have. with one exception, when i first moved here to florida. and it was in a for-profit hospital and i quit after 7 months. and i wonder where several posters are coming from and why they remain in practice, if their jobs are that dangerous and lacking any reward. if one feels that threatened and lacking that much support, perhaps they should find something else to earn a living at.

grannynurse

URO-RN · Dec 22, 2005

I have not worked in 28 years. So what. I do not believe that human dynamics have changed that much since I last practiced. And I have been a patient, in four different hospitals, in four different states. And I have yet to encounter the customer service mode you have. With one exception, when I first moved here to Florida. And it was in a for-profit hospital and I quit after 7 months. And I wonder where several posters are coming from and why they remain in practice, if their jobs are that dangerous and lacking any reward. If one feels that threatened and lacking that much support, perhaps they should find something else to earn a living at.
Grannynurse

If you said "stop" then that nurse should of stopped. End of story. We were not there the day this happened to you; & I think that we all can learn from your experience.

When my patients refuse something such as a procedure, I document that, call the doc if necessary and move on.

tencat · Dec 22, 2005

If you asked the nurse to stop digging in your arm, there is no excuse for her to have continued. I don't know what she was thinking, but she does need a refresher in patient right to refuse care. I agree, too, that a lot of medical staff do not listen to patients and they should be listening.

However, abuse of people in service professions HAS increased since 1988, as has the 'entitlement' attitude. Many more people today seem to feel that they should get to do whatever they want whenever they want to do it, regardless of how it will affect those around them. When I was a teenager in school in the 80's, no student I was acquainted with would have even THOUGHT about bringing a gun to school to shoot other people, or a knife to settle a score. We weren't saints, and there was a huge problem with drug and alcohol use, fighting, and rampant sexual experimentation, as there is today. But today's kid is more out of control in the classroom and allowed to be so. The same is applying to the public at large where a temper tantrum is seen as a normal thing that has nothing to do with the one throwing the tantrum. It boils down to personal responsibility. No one seems to be required to have it anymore. Now we can all blame everyone else for our behavior! That's a pretty sweet deal......that means that those who stand in our way and demand 'respect' are wrong because we have the right to be disrespectful, by golly. Hey, if I want to kill someone, it's really his/her fault if I do, because he/she MADE me do it by looking at me wrong. Human nature may not change in 18 years, but societies do. And society is reflected in helping professions such as teaching and nursing. A teacher from 1988 who hasn't been in the classroom since then really has no idea about what is happening in today's classroom. I imagine the same is true of nursing.