Oversupply of Nurse Practitioners

Please note that my intentions are not to discourage future RNs from pursuing a NP program or their career goals; neither is it to emphasize how incompetent new NPs are in comparison to Med students or residents. I really wrote this to caution prospective students to be cautious when choosing a NP school. I have shared the same sentiments with RNs in the hospital and they have been so grateful for my honesty. For example one RN that worked for 18 years as a clinical manager in Pre Op. She was about to do this online FNP program. She waited a couple of years before she could get in to University of Miami Psych DNP program . She graduates next May and has a job lined out for her making a very substantial salary. Also her clinicals were done with rotating Psych residents and Psychiatrists, NPs etc.

While I appreciate your experience and perspective, I did disagree with some of your anecdote and comparisons. You do work in acute care and probably do see a slew of NPs from a range of colleges and experience levels. But that experience and clinical training is vastly different from the primary care environment. As someone else noted, the amount of tests and rabbit holes traversed, new NPs can easily be similar to new medical residents who both respectively don't have a significant wealth of experience to make better choices. This isn't a fault of going to online vs brick and mortar... It's a simple lack of experience. I recall a study pointing this problem or with new nurse practitioners... But it had nothing to do with * where* they went to school. While yes some of these schools can be classified as "diploma mills", there's a difference that separates them from true diploma mills. We all have a barrier of entry and in most states must pass a certification exam. Maybe that barrier needs to be boosted because frankly this education method isn't going away and for many working nurses, it's the only option they have.

Almost all of the content of an NP program can be delivered online. Why not? For most of that content, there is no discernible benefit to sitting in a classroom vs watching a recorded or live lecture, or using other study materials.

But, if students are only online and there are never any proctored exams or other in person evaluations, I do question the validity.

I attended school just before the start of online classes. I had to drive 2 hours each way, it was extremely annoying to be forced to do that, and then sit through a poor quality or meaningless lecture. This happened many times.

Although I attended a well known brick and mortar school, we had to find our own preceptors, and it was a literal nightmare.

Thankfully, I finally found someone. She told me she was hesitant because she had to fail others in the past. They were completely unprepared.

The quality overall of the program was poor. Our department head had her degree, and literally no other experience. She believed in Freud.

Summary : A lot of improvements need to be made in NP education, most of them costing more money.

Things have changed and NPs are not just writing refills for people who have already been evaluated by doctors. That went out decades ago.

The boards for the Psych NP unfortunately were ridiculously easy, and wouldn't protect the public from quacks.

I totally agree and I think there is a shortage of quality preceptors. It may not even be the schools fault. Preceptorship May be the leading problem now in this age of online training- all schools both online and in class need to improve on clinicals . Who can be good advocates for this are none other than ourselves , someone like me with years of advanced clinical experience- Ineed to take on more students and train - I think that would be a more proactive apporoach to problem rather than just criticizing programs. I'm grateful to this forum and those who have responded to my thread .. you have opened my eyes on what I should be doing to help my fellow professionals. Thanks again for feedback and comments- did not mean to offend anyone

Prospective NP students, "caveat emptor" (buyer beware). There are excellent NP schools that also provide preceptors. It is up to prospective NP students to do the research when applying to schools. I agree with other posters that there are excellent online programs. Personally, I see no benefit to in-person didactic instruction unless it is a small group seminar format. Even then, with modern videoconferencing technology, it is possible to have such sessions online. At Johns Hopkins, students have the choice of in-person lectures or online lectures. The online classes also have weekly Q&A sessions with the professor that students can attend real-time online or they can watch the recorded session later. Professors are always available via email, phone, or in-person office visits according to a published schedule. A big advantage to a recorded online lecture is that the lecture can be replayed - a huge benefit to audio learners. Johns Hopkins does have post-master's and doctoral programs that are online and they find the preceptors, too.

I totally agree and I think there is a shortage of quality preceptors. It may not even be the schools fault. Preceptorship May be the leading problem now in this age of online training- all schools both online and in class need to improve on clinicals . Who can be good advocates for this are none other than ourselves , someone like me with years of advanced clinical experience- Ineed to take on more students and train - I think that would be a more proactive apporoach to problem rather than just criticizing programs. I'm grateful to this forum and those who have responded to my thread .. you have opened my eyes on what I should be doing to help my fellow professionals. Thanks again for feedback and comments- did not mean to offend anyone

I think the take home message is that not all NP programs are made the same. Some want you to succeed, and some pump out degrees.

I wanted to add one more comment to this thread. Yesterday I was have lunch in the doctors lounge with a Wound Care/ Othopedic surgeon who has practiced for greater than 25 years. He has had a Physician Assistant for last 8 years. He was ranting about how the incompetent NP hospitalist admits his patients and almost kills them. He was saying about how he is going to do admissions himself rather than get hospitalist groups who employ incompetent NPs. Then other physicians chimes in mostly surgeons. One of the remarks was: " we see some of the most incompetent RNs becoming NPs". Then the Physician Assistant remarked yep cos they all doing online programs! Just thought I share this

One of the remarks was: " we see some of the most incompetent RNs becoming NPs".

I'm sure there are locker room conversations about any group's incompetence however this has been something I have noticed lately also. It used to be the excellent RNs who aspired and were admitted to NP programs. More often than not it now seems all the marginal RNs are going to become a NP. I suppose it makes sense as their attitude seems to be that it is an easy, sit on your butt, M-F job.

I wanted to add one more comment to this thread. Yesterday I was have lunch in the doctors lounge with a Wound Care/ Othopedic surgeon who has practiced for greater than 25 years. He has had a Physician Assistant for last 8 years. He was ranting about how the incompetent NP hospitalist admits his patients and almost kills them. He was saying about how he is going to do admissions himself rather than get hospitalist groups who employ incompetent NPs. Then other physicians chimes in mostly surgeons. One of the remarks was: " we see some of the most incompetent RNs becoming NPs". Then the Physician Assistant remarked yep cos they all doing online programs! Just thought I share this

When discussion of my background and education comes up, lots of the physicians with whom I work are surprised to learn that I went to a well-known and well-respected school, and took actual classes and clinical for two years to get a "real" master's degree. They thought that all nurses get what they consider "pretend" graduate degrees from on-line schools, and sincerely didn't realize that that's not the only option in nursing.

Edited Aug 23, 2018 by elkpark

It's true. I was was in a NP program until recently that charges a lot of money 1k per credit hour. And I also stay in Florida, now that I see what's happening I'm stopping NP school and trying to find another option. Sad part is NP school put me into a lot of debt and now I'm trying to catch up on bills for my kids, my sick parents and me. It also feels like in Florida these RN schools that are for profit are pumping out new grads like crazy. Many RN jobs are only offering me $25 a hour and that's with all of my experience.

It's true. I was was in a NP program until recently that charges a lot of money 1k per credit hour. And I also stay in Florida, now that I see what's happening I'm stopping NP school and trying to find another option. Sad part is NP school put me into a lot of debt and now I'm trying to catch up on bills for my kids, my sick parents and me. It also feels like in Florida these RN schools that are for profit are pumping out new grads like crazy. Many RN jobs are only offering me $25 a hour and that's with all of my experience.

How far into the program/debt are you? If you are almost done would be crazy to stop.

How far into the program/debt are you? If you are almost done would be crazy to stop.

I still have a little over a year to go. It has no full time option and I have to support my family so I have to stop.

In the southeast, it is rather saturated, especially in the cities with it also strongly pouring over into the rural areas (many rural areas dont have much for jobs besides healthcare stuff and tons of floor nurses filled up NP schools (online) and remained rural).

The GOVT has an outlook on NP/PAs which address much of this, to argue that saturation is not here, nor coming is walking blindly. But please do not take my word for it. look at the report.

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