I recently received a published form from the State of Florida showing that ARNPs increased 22% over the past two years. RNs only increased by 7.4% If you are a new grad wondering why you can't find a position here is your answer. Our NP mills have pumped out too many graduates for the demand of society. I don't have the data to back it up but if this is happening in Florida I would assume it is happening around the nation.
I'm licensed in Florida but moved to California years ago because I could see the tsunami of new graduates slowly starting to erode the wages of established NPs. It's now happening here in California and I have been directly affected. I can count at least another dozen of my NP colleagues around the nation who are complaining of wage deflation happening because new grads will accept a position at almost any wage. Starting wages are below those for RNs in some cases.
For those of you thinking of becoming a NP think and long and hard before you commit your money and your time. The job is enjoyable but the return on investment is declining year after the year with the flooding of the markets. Maybe one day the leaders of our nursing schools will open a book on economics and understand the relationship between supply and demand rather than stuff another useless nursing theory down our throats.
I totally agree and I think there is a shortage of quality preceptors. It may not even be the schools fault. Preceptorship May be the leading problem now in this age of online training- all schools both online and in class need to improve on clinicals . Who can be good advocates for this are none other than ourselves , someone like me with years of advanced clinical experience- Ineed to take on more students and train - I think that would be a more proactive apporoach to problem rather than just criticizing programs. I'm grateful to this forum and those who have responded to my thread .. you have opened my eyes on what I should be doing to help my fellow professionals. Thanks again for feedback and comments- did not mean to offend anyone
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
Prospective NP students, "caveat emptor" (buyer beware). There are excellent NP schools that also provide preceptors. It is up to prospective NP students to do the research when applying to schools. I agree with other posters that there are excellent online programs. Personally, I see no benefit to in-person didactic instruction unless it is a small group seminar format. Even then, with modern videoconferencing technology, it is possible to have such sessions online. At Johns Hopkins, students have the choice of in-person lectures or online lectures. The online classes also have weekly Q&A sessions with the professor that students can attend real-time online or they can watch the recorded session later. Professors are always available via email, phone, or in-person office visits according to a published schedule. A big advantage to a recorded online lecture is that the lecture can be replayed - a huge benefit to audio learners. Johns Hopkins does have post-master's and doctoral programs that are online and they find the preceptors, too.
I totally agree and I think there is a shortage of quality preceptors. It may not even be the schools fault. Preceptorship May be the leading problem now in this age of online training- all schools both online and in class need to improve on clinicals . Who can be good advocates for this are none other than ourselves , someone like me with years of advanced clinical experience- Ineed to take on more students and train - I think that would be a more proactive apporoach to problem rather than just criticizing programs. I'm grateful to this forum and those who have responded to my thread .. you have opened my eyes on what I should be doing to help my fellow professionals. Thanks again for feedback and comments- did not mean to offend anyone
I think the take home message is that not all NP programs are made the same. Some want you to succeed, and some pump out degrees.
I wanted to add one more comment to this thread. Yesterday I was have lunch in the doctors lounge with a Wound Care/ Othopedic surgeon who has practiced for greater than 25 years. He has had a Physician Assistant for last 8 years. He was ranting about how the incompetent NP hospitalist admits his patients and almost kills them. He was saying about how he is going to do admissions himself rather than get hospitalist groups who employ incompetent NPs. Then other physicians chimes in mostly surgeons. One of the remarks was: " we see some of the most incompetent RNs becoming NPs". Then the Physician Assistant remarked yep cos they all doing online programs! Just thought I share this
One of the remarks was: " we see some of the most incompetent RNs becoming NPs".
I'm sure there are locker room conversations about any group's incompetence however this has been something I have noticed lately also. It used to be the excellent RNs who aspired and were admitted to NP programs. More often than not it now seems all the marginal RNs are going to become a NP. I suppose it makes sense as their attitude seems to be that it is an easy, sit on your butt, M-F job.
I wanted to add one more comment to this thread. Yesterday I was have lunch in the doctors lounge with a Wound Care/ Othopedic surgeon who has practiced for greater than 25 years. He has had a Physician Assistant for last 8 years. He was ranting about how the incompetent NP hospitalist admits his patients and almost kills them. He was saying about how he is going to do admissions himself rather than get hospitalist groups who employ incompetent NPs. Then other physicians chimes in mostly surgeons. One of the remarks was: " we see some of the most incompetent RNs becoming NPs". Then the Physician Assistant remarked yep cos they all doing online programs! Just thought I share this
When discussion of my background and education comes up, lots of the physicians with whom I work are surprised to learn that I went to a well-known and well-respected school, and took actual classes and clinical for two years to get a "real" master's degree. They thought that all nurses get what they consider "pretend" graduate degrees from on-line schools, and sincerely didn't realize that that's not the only option in nursing.
It's true. I was was in a NP program until recently that charges a lot of money 1k per credit hour. And I also stay in Florida, now that I see what's happening I'm stopping NP school and trying to find another option. Sad part is NP school put me into a lot of debt and now I'm trying to catch up on bills for my kids, my sick parents and me. It also feels like in Florida these RN schools that are for profit are pumping out new grads like crazy. Many RN jobs are only offering me $25 a hour and that's with all of my experience.
It's true. I was was in a NP Program until recently that charges a lot of money 1k per credit hour. And I also stay in Florida, now that I see what's happening I'm stopping NP school and trying to find another option. Sad part is NP school put me into a lot of debt and now I'm trying to catch up on bills for my kids, my sick parents and me. It also feels like in Florida these RN schools that are for profit are pumping out new grads like crazy. Many RN jobs are only offering me $25 a hour and that's with all of my experience.
How far into the program/debt are you? If you are almost done would be crazy to stop.
In the southeast, it is rather saturated, especially in the cities with it also strongly pouring over into the rural areas (many rural areas dont have much for jobs besides healthcare stuff and tons of floor nurses filled up NP schools (online) and remained rural).
The GOVT has an outlook on NP/PAs which address much of this, to argue that saturation is not here, nor coming is walking blindly. But please do not take my word for it. look at the report.
Give it some time. It won't be long before someone comes along and posts that they recently graduated from NP school and received a dozen job offers and now earn a big 6-figure salary with everything on top. I've read a number of these stories posted on here over the years and I suspect that some of them are exaggerated. The nursing journals and the universities keep saying that there is an NP shortage and that NP salaries are going up. I have been in this field for a while now, and what I see happening out there is exactly the opposite. But when one's agenda is to recruit new students and bilk them for as much tuition and fees as one can get out of them then I suppose that changes one's perspective of reality. Its very easy to get into an NP school and easy to pass the board exam, and many nurses don't want to work at the bedside anymore so I suppose all of this was inevitable. Everyone and their mother is an NP now. LOL.
I am originally from Florida. I watched the glut happen there. I know many NPs there who had to move out of state because they couldn't find a decent paying job there. That was one of the reasons why I began working as a locum myself. I worked as a locum for a long time in many different parts of the country, and I have seen the glut take place in other areas over the years too. I have also watched the pay decline significantly in many of these areas. A wealthy dude whom I met at a plush Palm Beach gathering a year ago who operates a group of urgent care clinics in Florida told me that he would never pay high wages for an NP or a PA when there are so many unemployed and desperate ones out there who will take anything just to be working. He doesn't pay malpractice and he offers no benefits of any kind, just the flat (low) hourly pay. What he is offering is lower than what I was earning as a bedside RN years ago, and the sad thing is that he always receives an overabundance of applicants for his horrible job advertisings. The glut of NPs will get worse because the universities are now full of students who will be the next wave of new grads to have a very difficult time finding their first job.
The days of landing that cushy high-paying job in a nice practice environment with all benefits paid are over for the most part--- though one might get lucky and strike gold. But that has become the exception rather than the rule. Many of the jobs being pitched out there now are temp, part-time/per diem home health wellness stuff. No stability, no job security, no benefits, and not so great pay. Mostly stuff that RNs can do but they hire NPs to do it because the greedy people who run these operations get to bill clinician rates then keep most of the money for themselves.
Education is never a bad thing, but to anyone considering NP school out there please, please, please do your own research and think about employment prospects in your area and the ROI before you commit vast amounts of your time and money to pursuing this career. Don't just blindly accept what the nursing schools tell you because a lot of it is BS.
I recall reading many posts about nurses pursuing FNP vs. AGNP because it was a broader scope of practice. Do you think lack of subspecialty fields has anything to do with the glut?
Ree01
14 Posts
I totally agree and I think there is a shortage of quality preceptors. It may not even be the schools fault. Preceptorship May be the leading problem now in this age of online training- all schools both online and in class need to improve on clinicals . Who can be good advocates for this are none other than ourselves , someone like me with years of advanced clinical experience- Ineed to take on more students and train - I think that would be a more proactive apporoach to problem rather than just criticizing programs. I'm grateful to this forum and those who have responded to my thread .. you have opened my eyes on what I should be doing to help my fellow professionals. Thanks again for feedback and comments- did not mean to offend anyone