Over 60, seasoned nurse, fired for not being a "Robot RN."

[Wise Woman RN]

More than 10 years with the hospital, always good yearly evals. New manager. So, out with the old, in with the new, on the charge of not following the "values."

I'm so hurt, and angry, and scared. No insurance. Unemployment is not close to enough to pay the bills. And who wants an old RN?

They own the county. I can't handle LTC. So, I am applying at the stores and pharmacies for anything full-time, but think that the only thing that I will probably be offered will be a "greeter" position.

I guess I am just looking for validation as a decent human being, and as a good nurse.

[nursel56]

Can we not have this thread turn into an older nurse vs younger nurse bash-fest? It's disrespectful to Wise Woman RN who came here for support.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

The only person turning this into an old vs young nurse is yourself nurse56. And it isn't so much about age as it is experience. The more experience the nurse has, the more costly that nurse will be.

[Ms_ILLRN]

@Wisewoman...recieved your private message. Can not reply until I have 15 posts. ARGH!

I SO wish to communicate with you further thus, will find a means.

Peace.

[Ms_ILLRN]

Thus age generally IS a factor.

In which case, the EOCC does have LAWS. Difficult to prove, but can be done.

Again, I have been involved with fair workplace laws and issues such as this for

some time and have found ULTIMATELY, procuring an REPUTABLE attorney is first step.

One who does bat for employees who blatantly have had employment laws broken.

Secondly, filing a grievance with EOCC. One needs, unfortunately, "the right to sue" before. An

unfortunate little side trap which our legal system has implemented, in my opinion, to PROTECT

big corporations. Let's face it, health care and politics are walking hand in hand.

Despite, it CAN be done.

Again, CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS are truly the way to go. Deferring costs to a group though I suspect in such cases, an attorney would take on the group, and then get a cut in any $$.

Wise, I know you are not out for $$. Nor was I. It is the PRINCIPLE.

THIS NEEDS TO STOP. Non-unionized "established" nurses are blatantly being unjustly terminated and nothing is being done. We **should** have rights. Corp medicine is merely cutting their throats by replacing us with less experienced nurses. I have personally witnessed, and have heard too many horror stories of what is going on in especially hospitals. PATIENT SAFETY IS BEING COMPROMISED.

As far as attorney fees, Wise, I can fill you in on details. I am aware of the costs.

I am bound and determined to PM you very soon.

XO

[Ms_ILLRN]

Right along side you, NursesRmo.

I love what I do. Am excellent at what I do, yet, am in an area over saturated by both nurses and nursing schools. Seeing institutions, even LTC hiring NEW GRADS over even veteran nurses. Obviously, with the pending health care reforms, $$ is indeed a huge factor.

I, however, refuse to be the one to break down and take the 8 buck an hour job.

First of all, I can not possibly pay my bills. Secondly, I have FAITH, somewhere, someone out there believes in my work. That there still are fair employers who would appreciate a "seasoned" R.N. who has a lot of knowledge, skills and fortunately, still EMPATHY, compassion and PRIDE in my work!

YOU hang in there as well.

[Guttercat, ASN, RN]

Seeing a lot of these threads lately.

I myself am one of the statistics. Just recently took the layoff option, rather than be eventually harassed out the door. I was at the top of the pay scale and the writing was on the wall: they manipulated the union contract in such a way as to make it near impossible to succeed. I jumped through all their hoops with a smile and a good attitude.

Just a couple weeks ago I received a phone call from one of the veteran nurses I used to work with (who still works for the hospital but has had to fight tooth and nail). That nurse told me there's a growing group of nurses who've been canned -- let's be real here-- for being expensive, that are considering filing a class action.

Like Esme said, proving age discrimination is almost impossible. The loopholes and built-in protection hospitals have in their favor is overwhelming. I also think you have to be over fifty to file an age discrimination investigation with the EEOC.

This isn't an "age" issue, it's a money issue. Like my coworker said, if they fire ten nurses at the top of the pay scale who are on full benefits...they save $1m million a year. That's a lot of $$.

It's been shocking to wake up one day and wonder where all your coworkers went. Plenty of hiring going on, but only new grads or those with less than five years experience. To say the hospital cleaned house in an understatement.

I'm in my forties so I did not qualify for early retirement, but they managed to stack the deck to eventually get me gone one way or another. I was given a few shifts to get up to speed in an entirely new department, learn the EMR (which I did) and be 100% independent. I got very close, but not to the point I could confidently say, "Yes, I'm ready to roll 100%." I was told my patient care was excellent, though. Uhhh. OK. Thanks. They then put the monkey on my back to take the layoff or not. If I did not take it, then they could have exercised their option to fire me for not being absolutely 100% independent.

I am "welcome" to apply for another position, but the catch is...they can cut my prior pay by as much as $12-15/hr.

The lesson learned here is I never again want to be at the mercy of an employer.

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

I would definitely follow your facilities grievance process to final level.

Dusting yourself off: there is a wide world of nursing beyond those hospital walls.

Home Health appreciates mature workers. It is a totally different world and lingo but can be learned. County based Office of Aging programs all use nurse consultants; pay is often 2/3 hospital rate. Out patient surgi-centers only open 12 hrs. Assisted living facilities. All a different world but need experience to guide the younger staff.

[Ms_ILLRN]

Actually, age discrimination numbers have been lowered to I believe in the FOURTY age group now.

Age discrimination may be difficult to prove, but HAS been done.

If everyone just lets it continue, then it will.

I personally, am not giving up on the fight. Though too late for myself, will advocate for my fellow nurses, and all

employees who have been subject to unjust treatment. Ultimately being shoved into the UI lines, causing financial

and emotional stress, loss of homes and many times, breaking down of families.

I would hope others would do the same.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I think every nurse aged 55+ who has had this happen should all get together somehow and write a letter/synopsis/report about their collective experiences. Publish it professionally, and send it to unions, professional nursing organizations, nursing media, the AARP and prominent nursing leaders asking them to address this issue!!

It is happening far more than what's reported. I understand the generational shift that's affecting all professions generally. I understand the complications this presents to management. What I don't understand is the total and utter lack of training, preparedness or mechanisms in place to deal with the widening age gap in the workforce. I have seen managers, time and time again, prioritize the bottom line over the value of experienced nurses. Rather than develop constructive ways to utilize their knowledge - or learn new techniques to effectively handle the conflicts between older and younger employees, they'd rather just fire them, or worse, passive/aggressively pressure them out by making the work environment so uninhabitable they have no choice but to quit. It's not just happening in nursing. It's happening everywhere.

That being said.....oldsters, my advice to you is to keep up with the changing technology, be tech-savvy, and don't be a high maintenance chestnut. Just do stuff the new way they want you to, stop clinging to paper and old protocols. Don't eat your young, and don't perpetuate the old stereotypes. Don't give those managers any excuse to start honing in on you. Every time I've seen an older nurse get canned it almost ALWAYS starts because of these issues. I hate to see it go down that way, but I find a lot of older nurses are so stubborn about learning new things, they practically invite the scrutiny that starts the process of termination. So stay flexible, stay informed, learn that software without complaint and nurture those youngins! You are our ROLE MODELS!

I appreciate your post and while it seems to be a great idea it is difficult to achieve for in reality it is extremely hard to prove and hospitals have very expensive lawyers to make sure they can document properly. Any document can be manipulated to whatever the originator requires. I have been administration and I will tell you now. HR is NOT your friend and you too will be someday be old. ( not necessarily you,you the collective you...:))

Oldsters?

Well, I have to say that I prefer seasoned, experienced, knowledgeable.......Oldster's? High maintenance chestnut? not so much.

My suggestion.....just remember that everyday we all move towards that place where they discard those old nurses. I am not one who buys into the whole eating their young mentality for I have always found that the nurses that indulged in this behavior have always engaged in this behavior. They were bullies in high school and they are billies now. Bullies, in general have very low self esteem as they can only elevate themselves at the expense of others. Very sad individuals.

Nurses who actively work at the bedside usually remain up to date. Nurses in general are reluctant for change for in routine there is safety. ALL Nurses depend on rigid routine in an environment of utter chaos to maintain patient safety.....when the routine is interrupted the margin for error increases. The older you are the more ingrained the routine.

I don't think anyone "invites", nor deserves, "the scrutiny" ........I believe it is the insecurity of the manager that refuses to have their "authority questioned" and leads by injecting fear in their subordinates by making an example of a few sacrificial lambs. These lambs are the seasoned nurses who have confidence and fortitude.....along with a higher hourly rate and more vacation time.

There is ageism in nursing and it is well documented. It is also well documented that these nurses cannot find new positions. This is about the OP getting fired at 60 years of age after a stellar career at one organization to suddenly becoming the malignant force of the floor and fired. It is about the presence of ageism.

We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

We need to stick to the topic and offer the OP support and guidance.

[ProgressiveActivist, BSN, RN]

It's time for nurses to start writing to their elected officials about age discrimination in the hospital industry. Something along the lines of "as your constituent I am asking for you to enact legislation to protect us from abusive employment practices which harass and discriminate against mature experienced Registered Nurses who are being terminated only for nearing the top of the pay scale."

Surely the ANA is aware of this and we should write to them as well.

Anyone want to start a website?

[Ms_ILLRN]

I'm with you!

PM me.

[Butterfly0328]

This is just seriously pathetic!! I am so very sorry you are going through this! Stand strong and be proud of who you are!