Opinions/comments r/t unions,nursing shortage

BadBird, BSN, RN · Jan 7, 2004

Yes if the nurses are involved with the unions. It takes work and persistance. Without union representation administratin will continue to walk all over nurses.

live4today, RN · Jan 7, 2004

originally posted by darla
do you think nursing issues would be better resolved if nurses were allowed to form unions? also, hospitals complain about the shortage and mandatory ratios-has it occured to them that if we had been treated more fairly then nurses wouldn't have left the profession or wouldn't have gone to employers with less stress,liability,etc.?

absolutely the stone truth! (thumbs up) :)

i used to not be pro-union, but after this past year of work, i am very much pro-union, and plan on joing the uan very soon. i've already been corresponding with them anyway, so great joy in the morning! i'm looking forward to being as politically active for nurses as i can be! :nurse:

gwenith, BSN, RN · Jan 7, 2004

I used to blaise about unions until I started reading this board and realised how many concessions our unions have won for us. From introduction of the "no lift" policy through to the ongoing campaign of "zero tolerance to workplace violence" we have and continue to win. Our unions speak up for us if the media adversely misrepresents nurses, they mediate on workplace disputes and they carry our professional indemnity insurance and so are a source of legal advice - free legal advice.

-jt · Jan 7, 2004

What do you mean IF nurses were allowed?? They already are "allowed". EVERY working American (with some government employee exceptions) has a Federal right to form a union. Its in the Fair Labor Act.

An employer might fight the workers unionizing campaign with threats and intimidation tactics (sometimes illegal ones), but that doesnt mean the workers arent "allowed" to unionize - it just means the workers have to be more determined to exercise their right to unionize and not fall victim to the scare tactics that are designed to stop them from exercising that right. Instead, this is when too many nurses will back down from exercising their right and will give it up rather than fight for it.

The only thing stopping nurses from unionizing together is nurses themselves - and their fears, biasis, and apathy.

K O'Malley · Jan 7, 2004

I worked for a very large hospital in my area the past three years. Finally quit because of the stress. On orientation day we were warned by administration that any attempts to unionize would be handled very swiftly and decisively.

-jt · Jan 7, 2004

Thats illegal. But how many nurses reported that illegal threat to the labor authority? None, Ill bet.

The employer is not the one who stopped the nurses with that illegal, intimidation threat. The nurses who let it control them stopped themselves.

No matter what the employer says, the nurses still have the right to form a union if they want to and the employer can have nothing to say or do about it. His threats are designed to scare the nurses & keep them in their place right from the beginning - and to stop them from even thinking about unionizing. The nurses can then choose let it scare them into inaction or they can choose to ignore the intimidation tactics & do what they have to do to for themselves. The only ones REALLY stopping nurses from unionizing are nurses themselves.

James Huffman · Jan 7, 2004

As others have already pointed out, nurses ARE allowed to form unions. However, despite what an earlier post said, there is NO right "in the Constitution" to form unions.

The bigger question is why anyone would want to have to deal with a union. Unions are an old, antiquated, dying form of employer/employee relations which are being abandoned by virtually all workers in the US. At last count (2001), 13.5% of American workers are unionized, the lowest point in 6 decades. (In the 1950s, some 35% of employees were unionized). Unions are a dying breed, but the organized crime influenced union bosses are desparate to keep their little fiefdoms, so they are trying to get fresh territory, and now see nurses as ripe for the picking, and, sadly, some nurses are listening to their outdated propaganda.

Nurses get walked over when they allow themselves to get walked over. Stand up, assert your rights and professional prerogatives, and don't be afraid to hold your ground. If nurses want to remain the professionals we are, unions are the last thing we want to have to deal with.

You are a professional. Act like one. And stop looking for someone to take care of you.

Jim Huffman, RN

-jt · Jan 7, 2004

I always find it odd to hear people say "stop looking at others to take care of you" when talking about nurses unions. What "others"? Where I come from, there is nobody else taking care of us - WE are "the union". The nurses take care of themselves at their own individual facilities - they just have more power, can do it more effectively, and with the strength of the laws behind them, when they do it collectively as a recognized union.

As far as the statement "be a professional" as an argument to avoid being a union, tens of thousands of other professionals are unionized - including doctors, dentists, college professors, lawyers (including the lawyers in Pennsylvania who just unionized with the TEAMSTERS). Nobody thinks of them as any less "professional" either.

Suggested reading:

Is Collective Bargaining For Nurses Professional?

http://www.ana.org/dlwa/barg/index.htm#3

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 7, 2004

I am one of those people who "sits on the fence" with regards to the unionization of the nursing workforce -- having worked for once for a hospital with a union and having worked for several that did not have a union.

I like the idea of collective bargaining and appreciate some of the gains that unions have made. However, like Jim Huffman said, I believe that many aspects of union activity are antiquated and non-productive. I've seen as many bad things come out of unionization as good things.

I can imagine a "perfect" union situation and would like the advantages it would bring. However, I know that, in the real world, the ideal union does not exist any more than the ideal employer exists. I'm not sure that the disadvantages that can come with unionization are worth the potential benefits except in the most extreme circumstances.

So for me, I would prefer to work in a non-union hospital ... and I know that there are some good ones out there. I would prefer to use other methods to improve working conditions for nurses, but recognize that unionization may be necessary in some cases.

llg

Medic946RN · Jan 7, 2004

Originally posted by -jt

Excuse me. :)

make that the Fair Labor Act
Still its a Federal right for all of us - with few exceptions.

Its up to us to exercise that right.

The Fair Labor Act is just that an Act of Federal Law it is not one of the Articles of the Constitution. There is a big difference. Tomorrow Congress or the President could suspend that law with the stroke of a pen, the Constitution isn't that easy to amend. No rant just a clarification.

As to unions, I spent 20yrs as a union paramedic. I can tell you the good and the bad. The good was I worked for a government and if it hadn't been for the union we'd have been privatized or have lost all our benefits or had drastic salary reductions, we weren't a popular service because unlike the police we didnt generate any revenue (ie tickets, fines, etc.)

The bad of the union coin is they protect every employee with the same unyeilding tenacity, even those who were the laziest most incompetent medics out there were given their all, that created a perception that we couldn't be fired no matter what we did, and for all intents and purposes that was true. In 20 years I only saw one person fired and after she went through the grievance process she won; was given her job back with back pay w/interest and awarded punitive damages.

Finally the relationship between the government and our union was so adversarial and contentious that they were constantly sniping at each other and government got back by punishing us. But they did it ways that they Union couldn't criticize, they said we needed to improve our response times so they took away our stations and had us patrolling in our vehicles for 14hrs at a time, they took away our meal breaks saying it was against pulbic safety interest for medics to stop and eat, we had to grab whatever we could when we could. They increased the types of calls we went on from strictly life threatening emergencies (what paramedics were designed for in the first place) to just about everything. We were doing 14-15calls in a 10 hr shift. A typical call took an hour to complete. We were being slammed and burned out. What did the Union do? Nothing.

So there's good and bad in all things. Nursing Unions could help with curtailing some of the dangerous staffing practices your hear about or see around the country, they could improve nursing stature and get our bottom line: good patient care to where it should be, but you must remember a Union has only one weapon, to strike. And I don't know if I could do that. It's hard to say you want to improve conditions for workers and patients and then walkout. Hospitals know this, they'll be the ones out there with their big PR firms saying how they tried to be reasonable and the media will show the picket lines of us nurses looking like angry union thugs and the poor neglected pts inside the hospital. I am just not sure it's a winning situation.

So there you have it. just my experience with an Union. Take it for what it is worth.

kwagner_51 · Jan 7, 2004

Originally posted by James Huffman
As others have already pointed out, nurses ARE allowed to form unions. However, despite what an earlier post said, there is NO right "in the Constitution" to form unions.

The bigger question is why anyone would want to have to deal with a union. Unions are an old, antiquated, dying form of employer/employee relations which are being abandoned by virtually all workers in the US. At last count (2001), 13.5% of American workers are unionized, the lowest point in 6 decades. (In the 1950s, some 35% of employees were unionized). Unions are a dying breed, but the organized crime influenced union bosses are desparate to keep their little fiefdoms, so they are trying to get fresh territory, and now see nurses as ripe for the picking, and, sadly, some nurses are listening to their outdated propaganda.

Nurses get walked over when they allow themselves to get walked over. Stand up, assert your rights and professional prerogatives, and don't be afraid to hold your ground. If nurses want to remain the professionals we are, unions are the last thing we want to have to deal with.

You are a professional. Act like one. And stop looking for someone to take care of you.

Jim Huffman, RN

Interesting comments Jim,

Did you know that DOCTORS are unionized? I didn't until today. Hummmm maybe that is why management listens to doctors!!

Here are some links to different sites proving that the Healthcare industry DOES need unions and why!!

http://www.doctorscouncil.com/press/pressMetropolitan2002.htm

http://www.doctorscouncil.com/

http://diannebrownson.tripod.com/nursehome.html

http://www.charlesjaco.com/html/archive/10-08-99.html

I will quote some from this article because I think alot of nurses and others think of unions as a place to protect from sweatshop conditions. I found this interesting and food for thought:

"It

passed because doctors and nurses and patients objected to health care executives

putting their stock options and bonuses ahead of medical necessity. Even the stodgy

American Medical Association has weighed in, approving doctor's unions.

Doctor's unions? Health care worker's unions? That doesn't happen because the

people staffing intensive care and the e.r. want to show solidarity with Jimmy

Hoffa, Junior. Unions happen in reaction to bad management and poor working

conditions. And the patient's bill of rights happened because the same managed-care

industry that's slashing staff at hospitals also denied proper care to too many

people too many times."

After reading this article and the other sites I am convinced that we do need a union, because managed care, including Medicare and Medicaid, don't give a rip about patients. All they care about is the bottom line....MONEY in their pockets!!

JMHO!!