Opinions/comments r/t unions,nursing shortage

[Darla]

do you think nursing issues would be better resolved if nurses were allowed to form unions? also, hospitals complain about the shortage and mandatory ratios-has it occured to them that if we had been treated more fairly then nurses wouldn't have left the profession or wouldn't have gone to employers with less stress,liability,etc.?

[fergus51]

True enough Steph.... Unfortunately that was in a time when there were supposedly too many nurses. Those new nurses either stayed at that facility or would have to leave the country to get work. It was a ridiculous time in Canada and we are still paying for it because many of those nurses that left never came back.

[ainz]

For a previous post: administration listens to doctors because they bring in the money, has nothing to do with a union. That is private physicians who admit patients and send patients for outpatient tests/treatment. Physicians that work for hospitals say as a hospitalist, pathologist, or other "house-based" work also can have administration's ear because of their network of other doctor friends and colleagues who admint patients and generate revenue (make money) for the hospital.

Nurses now have a window of opportunity to really get some things changed. Don't know if the union is the way to go or even necessary. Nurses truly are generators of revenue, they make money for the hospital. Problem is, most nurses I talk to about this kind of thing do not understand enough about our complicated and fragmented healthcare financing system to realize this. Administration sees them as expenses, or rather continue to tell the nurses they are expenses so as not to "awaken the sleeping giant." Nurses truly are generators of revenue for the hospital. How? The need for nursing care is the only justification for an acute care hospital stay!! Without the nurses the hospital could not keep patients in the hospital, not just from a care delivery point of view but from a getting paid point of view as well.

When nurses realize this they will understand the power that nurses truly have. It trumps the physician's power as well. Perhaps a union is good only as a vehicle to rally nurses together but it is unnecessary to deal with administration.

I am in California and I can tell you the hospital administrations are scrambling around in a panic over the staffing ration laws. Nurses are hard to find. When you can find them you pay dearly. Nurses are at a distinct advantage at this point in time.

NOW is the time for some real gains that will last. It's not just about staffing, it's about all issues that face nursing. However, we must temper the demands. For instance, the staffing rations are putting some burdens on the health system that I think have been unanticipated and can be disasterous for everyone so in this way it is a bit extreme. However, on the other hand administrations have been screwing over nurses for some time now. NOW nurses have the needed leverage (in California anyway) to make some real gains by sort of coming with an olive branch and saying to administration, "are you ready to sit down and be reasonable about some things?" Don't know that you need a union for that.

[wjf00]

I used to work at a nonunion Hospital in Sacramento. Now I work for a unionized hospital. The differnces? 1) Pay raise $6.08/hr 2) nurse to patient ratios in the NICU that are better than any other hospital I know of 3)never cancelled/ no mandatory OT 4) more paid time off and holidays. .... I will never work at a nonunion hospital again. One thing to remember about unions is, if you don't like how it is being run, you can vote new leaders, it is a democracy. But hospital adminstration is not a democracy, if someone is mismanaging there TOO BAD FOR YOU! The argument that unions protect "bad workers" holds no water. NO ONE was ever hired into a job by a union, managment does the hiring. So when managment decides someone is incompetent and has to go they are indicting themselves, they hired them, not the union.

[MidMissouriRN]

For a previous post: administration listens to doctors because they bring in the money, has nothing to do with a union. That is private physicians who admit patients and send patients for outpatient tests/treatment. Physicians that work for hospitals say as a hospitalist, pathologist, or other "house-based" work also can have administration's ear because of their network of other doctor friends and colleagues who admint patients and generate revenue (make money) for the hospital.

Nurses now have a window of opportunity to really get some things changed. Don't know if the union is the way to go or even necessary. Nurses truly are generators of revenue, they make money for the hospital. Problem is, most nurses I talk to about this kind of thing do not understand enough about our complicated and fragmented healthcare financing system to realize this. Administration sees them as expenses, or rather continue to tell the nurses they are expenses so as not to "awaken the sleeping giant." Nurses truly are generators of revenue for the hospital. How? The need for nursing care is the only justification for an acute care hospital stay!! Without the nurses the hospital could not keep patients in the hospital, not just from a care delivery point of view but from a getting paid point of view as well.

When nurses realize this they will understand the power that nurses truly have. It trumps the physician's power as well. Perhaps a union is good only as a vehicle to rally nurses together but it is unnecessary to deal with administration.

I am in California and I can tell you the hospital administrations are scrambling around in a panic over the staffing ration laws. Nurses are hard to find. When you can find them you pay dearly. Nurses are at a distinct advantage at this point in time.

NOW is the time for some real gains that will last. It's not just about staffing, it's about all issues that face nursing. However, we must temper the demands. For instance, the staffing rations are putting some burdens on the health system that I think have been unanticipated and can be disasterous for everyone so in this way it is a bit extreme. However, on the other hand administrations have been screwing over nurses for some time now. NOW nurses have the needed leverage (in California anyway) to make some real gains by sort of coming with an olive branch and saying to administration, "are you ready to sit down and be reasonable about some things?" Don't know that you need a union for that.

This is the best post I have ever read. I suggest everyone getting in contact with uannurse.org and start organizing.

[MidMissouriRN]

What do you think? I need some feedback.

[tennurse267]

Originally posted by K O'Malley

I worked for a very large hospital in my area the past three years. Finally quit because of the stress. On orientation day we were warned by administration that any attempts to unionize would be handled very swiftly and decisively.

I work in the south (always have) and have been "strongly" urged by administration during the orientation process to stay away from union talk. I have always wondered why Nursing Unions have never taken hold in the South. Anyone out there care to share some ideas?

[Agnus]

Originally posted by James Huffman

jt notes:

"As far as the statement "be a professional" as an argument to avoid being a union, tens of thousands of other professionals are unionized - including doctors, dentists, college professors, lawyers (including the lawyers in Pennsylvania who just unionized with SEIU's professionals union). Nobody thinks of them as any less "professional" either."

I'm frankly baffled by this statement. There is some union representation among physicians in residency, but I'm not sure how (or for what purpose) private practice physicians could be unionized. Likewise dentists and lawyers. Unionization is plausible among employees, but not among private practice professionals.

And why would the SEIU (Service Employees' International Union) be representing lawyers? I checked their website (seiu.org) and there is no mention of this anywhere.

Jim Huffman, RN

Hold it right there. It is common knowlege that you Jim are an idependent contractor and there fore self employed. We know that you promote this through your organization the Independent Nurses Association.

We also know that it is your contention that every nurse should follow your path.

Jim your path is not right for everyone. Some of us choose to remain in an employee situation for reasons as sound as yours are for taking the entrenperneural route.

Remaining an employee diminishes no one. Your path is right for you. It is not the correct path for most people.

Of course private pactice physician physicians and lawyers are not in unions that is essentially rediculous However, there are those who are not in private practice. They are still professionsals and they (many) are unionized.

In the past you have displayed an elitist attitue about being self employed. Please, don't it is unbecomming as a professional.

You imply resident physicians as the only ones not in private practice. I have news they are not. Numerous physicians and other professionals who have been in the profession for years even decades are not in private practice but instead are employees.

[Agnus]

Employers who treat employees well do not find thier employees unionizing.

The union is brought in when the employer refuses to deal with poor conditions and pay and refuses to even negotiate any change.

Unions today are not a first but a last resort by employees. If you have ever been involved in the process bringing in a union anywhere is NOT an easy process.

I have been and am on both sides of the table with this as an employer and as a union employee.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by tennurse267

I work in the south (always have) and have been "strongly" urged by administration during the orientation process to stay away from union talk. I have always wondered why Nursing Unions have never taken hold in the South. Anyone out there care to share some ideas?

My ideas:

Part of it is that it is a "Yankee" idea (or so I was raised). That and Unions came about to protect the person that was abused doing manuel labor in late 1800s - early 1900's. They also came up mostly in industries (cars, steel, meat processing, manufacturing) that are not dominant in the South. In those time periods, much of the manuel work in the South was dominanted by sharecroppers and former slaves turned laborers, if it wasn't done by those that owned the land/business. Farms, diaries, ranching, etc. do not lend themselves as well to unions. Mining in our area was on a much smaller scale (Phosphate) than in the North (coal). My family owned and ran a diary and a mercantile store - they did much of the work themselves as long as they had the business. Mom had 6 siblings, and Daddy had 9 siblings . The shops downtown, well when one family member retired, a younger cousin took their place. The local hospital (prior to being bought by Columbia HCA and moved) had three generations of one family working there.

That environment is not conducive to unionizing.

And I too have been threatened with firing for mentioning the word "Union"

[Agnus]

It is illegal to fire for trying to bring in a union. So they put themselves at risk making threats. However "urging you to stay away from union talk" is not necessiraly a threat to fire you albite it is a form or intimidation.

[funkymutha999]

I have been working for a homecare company for 2.5 years. I started out fulltime and was getting ill all the time and was knocked to per diem. I was paid no mileage the first year and after becoming per diem, had to use my own cell phone. I drove an average of 70 -105 mi. a day. I recently was terminated. I hadn't been ill for about a year, but came down with Walking pneumonia. My supervisor wanted me to still see my patients, but I said I was to ill to do so. One of my patients was 97 and another had 18% renal function. I am very upset and I never want to work for a nonunion company again.I am 52 years old and I think Nurses are treated horribly and they definately need protected from greedy big businesses. I really liked my job, that's why I didn't leave sooner.It also was the lowest paying nursing job I have ever had. I have been thinking of relocating to Chicago or Ca. Psych RN 1974

[Works2xs]

Undoubtedly, unions can do, and have done, good things for workers of whatever industry with which they are associated. That's not was concerns me. It's the inertia that unions (or any large organization for that matter) generate. They take care of the "big" issues and then keep going. Every petty little nit-noid gripe gets inflated into blimp proportions. Also, people become so invested in their union activities that stopping equates to personal loss. So as a worker, you trade one big immovable mass (management) for another (union).

As unions are creditable for correcting many bad (even deadly) workplace practices, they are also remarkably adept at creating their own unbelievable inefficiencies. It kind of makes me feel like I'm asking to be saved from the firing squad by submitting to the hangman.