Oklahoma Hospital Shooting

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 3, 2022

6 hours ago, Emergent said:

What is happening to our society?

Oklahoma Hospital Shooting-BBC

Aside from the predictable debate about gun availability in the United States, what is spurring these bloody tragedies that are becoming more and more frequent?

In this case I wonder if the war on opiates was a contributing factor? This man had back surgery that 10 years ago would have earned him a generous prescription of opiates. Now you're having more and more frustration with patients who have chronic pain.

Generally, society has become more driven by the internet, leading to attention-craving behaviors. A lot of social structures have broken down. Young people have grown up with violent video games, and now have access to real, heavy duty weapons. Americans have become more and more entitled, rude, and spoiled. Those are just some of the things that cross my mind regarding this subject.

Newspapers should just start Mass Casualtues of the Day sections. And I agree with everything you said above. America had it's day but we are augering into the ground now and there is no turning tus around. We've reached the critical mass of orificees. My random thoughts:)

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Jun 3, 2022

I certainly do not advocate murdering people but I do hope that the DEA, FDA, whoever has doctors scared to properly treat pain get the message.

I knew back when this war on opiates first began that people who need proper pain treatment would be shorted and would suffer, all because some other people were criminals when it came to these meds.

Just like the inconvenience for law-abiding people who need Sudafed but have to get it from a worker instead of being able to just buy it right over the counter, this is a result of government interfering, instead of punishing the criminals. Lawmakers likely meant well, but they have created a mess instead.

Lawmakers and other bigwigs can likely get all the pain med they need. The average nobody, like the OK shooter, must either turn to alcohol or obtain pain med illegally or suffer.

klone, MSN, RN · Jun 3, 2022

Baloney. This isn't because of the "war on opiates". This was an unhinged *** who was able to buy an assault rifle. Do not blame anyone but the person who did it. And maybe the NRA for buying the votes of Republican lawmakers.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Jun 3, 2022

4 hours ago, klone said:

Baloney. This isn't because of the "war on opiates". This was an unhinged *** who was able to buy an assault rifle. Do not blame anyone but the person who did it. And maybe the NRA for buying the votes of Republican lawmakers.

Baloney right back atcha, People in pain need relief. The guy may have been nuts but his situation was compounded by the pain- pain which was not properly addressed.

The focus on money, money, money has decimated good nursing care and the focus on not punishing drug-related criminals and doctors' prescribing habits being severely scrutinized by non-physicians/politicians has made doctors afraid to order proper pain relief to those who are suffering.

Don't even bother trying to deny this factor. I have personally experienced unmitigated pain that my damn doctor didn't address. I really should have sued him.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 3, 2022

27 minutes ago, Kooky Korky said:

Baloney right back atcha, People in pain need relief. The guy may have been nuts but his situation was compounded by the pain- pain which was not properly addressed.

The focus on money, money, money has decimated good nursing care and the focus on not punishing drug-related criminals and doctors' prescribing habits being severely scrutinized by non-physicians/politicians has made doctors afraid to order proper pain relief to those who are suffering.

Don't even bother trying to deny this factor. I have personally experienced unmitigated pain that my damn doctor didn't address. I really should have sued him.

BUT, you wanted to sue him; not go out and buy a military weapon and take out an office. My doctor refuses to give me paid meds which I have already proven to use wisely and only for sleep. I'm pissed but not crazy. Yet my elderly neighbor has been on large doses of Tramadol for years prescribed by some Dr. Feelgood and she is definitely addicted ro something she doesn't need anymore. My limited experience in pain management is that most patients will not make the commitment to doing what they have to do to mitigate their pain. They chose back surgery way too often and are back in a year for pain injections but now have a lower back filled with hardware they didn't need in the first place. Managing pain is a long, steep learning curve which, IMHO, nurses are better suited for managing than surgeons.

Davey Do · Jun 3, 2022

I truly appreciate, and even agree to a point, on the perspectives and opinions.

However, this sort of thing has always happened to some degree and will continue to happen unless all wear full suit bullet proof PPE.

The bottom-line cause is the neurotransmission wiring of the brain, often referred to as "something snapped".

Decades ago, I watched some scientific study of the brain, one experiment with cats. Electrodes were hooked up to a certain portion of a cat's brain, an electrical charge was given, and the docile cat became an uncontrollably evil beast clawing any nearby feline. When the electric charge ceased, so did the aberrant behavior.

Consider, if you will, that ANYBODY'S brain can short circuit and they become out of control.

This premise of a short-circuiting brain explains a behavior that hits home close to us on this website.

Emergent, RN · Jun 3, 2022

32 minutes ago, Davey Do said:

cat became an uncontrollably evil beast clawing any nearby feline.

You've met my calico, eh??

Emergent, RN · Jun 3, 2022

The problem with the whole pain control thing now is that, just as 15 years ago the doctors were under pressure to totally relieve pain, and were monitored by the regulatory for compliance, now they are monitored by those same entities to make sure they aren't prescribing too much.

Couple that with the assembly line approach to Medicine, the one-size-fits-all mantra of protocols and algorithms, and here we are.

Davey Do · Jun 3, 2022

Pain control is a piece of the pie, which is in the ballpark, but is not the whole enchilada. Behaviors are the result of Chemistry and neurotransmission.

Pain affects our abilities, physically, emotionally, and mentally, as do other stimuli- stress, for example. During situations of high stress, there are changes in our VS, emotions, and mental abilities, whether that stress is caused by real factors or are merely perceived.

Perceived factors can result in the same product as real factors. For example, if an individual is under increased and constant stress, the brain produces too much of a certain dopamine. The individual does not perceive reality consensually, can be paranoid, delusional and agitated, acting on those thoughts and feelings in a grossly inappropriate manner.

If a dopamine antagonist is used, the post synaptic cleft receptors do not absorb the dopamine transmitted by the presynaptic cleft, and a more homeostatic condition occurs.

Untreated individuals with this dopamine disorder would explain the reason why some individuals act aberrantly.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2022

14 hours ago, subee said:

BUT, you wanted to sue him; not go out and buy a military weapon and take out an office. My doctor refuses to give me paid meds which I have already proven to use wisely and only for sleep. I'm pissed but not crazy. Yet my elderly neighbor has been on large doses of Tramadol for years prescribed by some Dr. Feelgood and she is definitely addicted to something she doesn't need anymore. My limited experience in pain management is that most patients will not make the commitment to doing what they have to do to mitigate their pain. They chose back surgery way too often and are back in a year for pain injections but now have a lower back filled with hardware they didn't need in the first place. Managing pain is a long, steep learning curve which, IMHO, nurses are better suited for managing than surgeons.

She might need it. How do you know if you do not know her whole hx?

What do you do for your untreated pain? Whiff some gas? Just kidding. But what DO you do?

They choose surgery because their doctors direct them that way! American docs still evidently know not nearly enough about PT, osteopathy, nutrition, chiropractic, and the like.

Yes I wanted to sue him but the lawyers I spoke to said the case was not worth their time. That's another problem in America - lawyers for middle class plaintiffs are not affordable. I should have outed him on facebook. Figured I would just let God handle it, avoid libel/slander, might need him again someday, (God forbid) , got blessed relief via my primary.

I hope you can help people before they choose cutting.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 4, 2022

7 hours ago, Kooky Korky said:

She might need it. How do you know if you do not know her whole hx?

What do you do for your untreated pain? Whiff some gas? Just kidding. But what DO you do?

They choose surgery because their doctors direct them that way! American docs still evidently know not nearly enough about PT, osteopathy, nutrition, chiropractic, and the like.

Yes I wanted to sue him but the lawyers I spoke to said the case was not worth their time. That's another problem in America - lawyers for middle class plaintiffs are not affordable. I should have outed him on facebook. Figured I would just let God handle it, avoid libel/slander, might need him again someday, (God forbid) , got blessed relief via my primary.

I hope you can help people before they choose cutting.

The best resource I've found so far is a workbook written by Mel Pohl, MD (main author) who, IMHO, does a wonderful job addressing ALL the aspects of chronic pain that provides a framework for patients to take the control themselves of managing their lives. P.S. The hardware is often not needed. Pain, in itself, is not a good reason for back surgery. Loss of the use of a leg or urinary incontinence are indications for surgery. Slipped disc patients usually do well because the procedure is relatively non-invasive and relief is almost instant.