Why a C-Section? - page 8
Hi everyone, I was just wondering why so many women are choosing to undergo ceasarean delivery without even a trial of labor? Don't they realize it is a major abdominal surgery and they will be in... Read More
Nov 3, '05Quote from SmilingBluEyesI totally agree with you here! When I had my baby in July, and was posting what issues I was having...you really helped me to get over the "guilt" and enjoy my baby, trust my instincts....I must say thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!On the other side of the coin, they (expectant and new moms) are very easy to "guilt" into and out of things. And this is what causes such mental and emotional distress for some of them.
Nov 3, '05Quote from SmilingBluEyesDeb, much thanks to you and other posters who have gone through both and shared your stories. I think it's give or take with either as they both have advantages and disadvantages. Mom's have to choose what they perceive as most "advantageous" in the long run, I suppose.I can speak to this as I have had a vaginal delivery (very difficult persistent OP w/3rd degree, Forceps-assisted after 3 hours' pushing) and a csection (breech baby girl).
I can say with no doubt, the recovery period following the csection was MUCH harder than the vaginal delivery was. BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT---- I was able to re-establish sexual relations with my dh much sooner following the csection as my perineum was NOT involved in the painful process of recovery. I was unable to have sex comfortably for probably 3 months after my son was born----but that does not preclude "creativity" as you put it---I won't get into detail there, but yes, we did have other means of enjoying each other on a deeply emotional level. I guess we were mature enough to realize SEX was not "all that" esp with a newborn preemie son in the home----we just needed to connect on an emotional level, which was a big enough challenge, believe me.
Seems to me, after the csection I was sooooooo sooooo sooo awfully tired. OMG, I was tired for days. I don't know why, if it's the additional healing internally, as well as externally, I had to undergo, but I do remember being so much more tired and so much more in pain after my csection. Also, I had to rely on narcotic pain meds to deal w/the post-partum pain w/the csection. After the vaginal delivery, even though my perineum was very sore, it seemed to me, Motrin and heat to the peri was enough to cope. I just don't remember even filling my script for the narc the OB wrote me. W/the csection, O boy, I used it--- and regularly---for about a week. I remember waking up in HORRIBLE burning pain in the first 3 or 4 mornings after my csection. I had to have my percoset on the bedside table and take it before I got up. Naturally, I hated the percoset....It made me even more sleepy and nauseous. But I had no choice but to use it. Motrin just does not cut it for surgical pain. Everytime I coughed, laughed or used my tummy muscles, I was reminded my abdomen was still healing. Ouch.
I was lucky in that in the immediate post-partal recovery process, with the csection, I was able to breastfeed my daughter about 1 1/2 hours after birth, in my recovery room. I would have been able to nurse my son much more immediately, had he NOT been 6 weeks' premature and in distress and taken to the NICU 5 min after he was born......
Women can breastfeed and/or bond IMMEDIATELY after a vaginal delivery, if the baby is well. That is a HUGE and DISTINCT advantage right there for a vaginal delivery, if you ask me. It alone makes it worth it to me.
I also distinctly remember getting up to shower at 0600 (my son was born at 0453),. after my vaginal delivery. Heck, I even put on make-up to and dressed in my street clothes---I wanted to feel pretty even if I did not appear that way to others lol.
I was in the nursery, visiting my baby, less than 2 hours' after birth. Had I had a csection, I would have to had waited a lot longer and been WHEELED In there to see him. That is not ideal, believe me, but heartbreaking---having to wait for someone to allow you to see your newborn in the nursery, if he/she is there.
No, being that independent in self care would never, ever happen after a csection, even in the best of circumstances. I had to wait an entire day and a half before I felt nearly well enough to shower, and then it was rather excruriating and bloody. Ever have your uterus massaged after a csection---? YEOWCH , is all I will tell you.
One thing I will NEVER forget about my vaginal delivery: seeing my son emerge into the world, right before my eyes. I looked down and literally watched him be born, saw his scrunchy little tiny face as he came out, and watched him take his first breaths as he emerged. I was even able to reach and touch him as he came out. How can I ever forget or recreate that? No, I will never, ever lose that precious image in my mind.
Forget that w/a csection. All you will see is the blue curtain in front of your head. You will see the baby in the warmer, first, if you are lucky, and the warmer is in a place in your line of vision. Otherwise, you will have to wait til the staff bring the newborn to your head, so you can see and touch him/her. Then, they will whisk the baby back to the warmer or nursery, and you will wait to hold him/her until you are ensconced in your postpartum room, which could be an hour or several, depending on policies and protocols in your hospital. Huge difference to me.
I would say all in all, the csection was a hell of a lot easier delivery- wise (well of course it was----it was planned, routine, and very easy--in and out in an hour....). But the recovery was hell.:stone
The vaginal delivery was a speedy process from which to recover, but it was a long time before I could have "normal" sex w/the dh afterward. I was able to re-connect sexually w/my spouse about 2 or 3 weeks after my csection, no problem or contraindication there. I liked that---but that was the ONLY advantage I can name.
All in all, I would prefer an uncomplicated vaginal delivery over a similarly uncomplicated csection, any day of the week. Anecdotal, I know, but it's just my opinion as one who has done it "both ways".
As to the Childbirth Education classes ... I teach them in my community through the hospital and in each and every class I've taught, there is always a mom who jokes "I think I'll just schedule a c-section instead". That is, until we get to the c-section part of the class and she sees and hears all that is entailed with this surgery. There's a big difference between a 1-2 day stay and being in the hospital for half a week after a c-section. OF course, it's nice to stand upright right after delivery as opposed to days or weeks afterward!
Thanks to all who added to the discussion regarding sex and sexuality. While I disagree that sex is the act of sexuality (I think Tweety said it, if I'm not mistaken), I do understand that many women do not want to sacrifice their sex life for a vaginal birth. With that being said, I loved the poster who stated that sex is BETTER for her after having children (vaginally). That statement rocks!
Nov 3, '05Quote from TweetiePieRNAww I thank you for that. I am glad I was able to help you.I totally agree with you here! When I had my baby in July, and was posting what issues I was having...you really helped me to get over the "guilt" and enjoy my baby, trust my instincts....I must say thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!
Nov 3, '05wow guys...i just read this entire thread and feel so many emotions stirred up! so glad i work ER b/c i know there is no way i could push my feelings aside and really care for a woman in l&d b/c of many issues that u all raised. i am in total agreement that education is sorely lacking for childbirth-the most i every knew about it was when i was on bedrest the last time and read as many books i could get my hands on. i even work with nurses who are going to have their first baby and haven't read a book, gone to classes, nothing. i am one in agreement that childbirth is too 'medicine-ized'...hear too many stories of the lady who comes in, gets put in a bed and can't move, so no duh she doesn't progress, gets induced, has prob with the baby on pit, and bang section it is. my sister in law was another that knew nothing about childbirth, scheduled when she was going to be induced (not overdue) and had a horrible time (amniotomy, pit, lost too much fluid so they had to do an infusion for the baby, f/c, pushed for 4 hours but couldn't feel where she was pushing from the epidural, and finally a vacuum to help get the kid out...she is 24, just had a tubal b/c she refuses to every have a baby again). all that being said, i had 3 natural deliveries (all preemies, 2 induced-pit is the evil demon!), and the last was a stat section (another preemie) after i started passing plate sized clots after they pulled my cerclage. for me personally, the section was the worst experience for me for many reasons. from talking with other women, it seems that my recovery was worse than theirs, and i understand that it is different for everyone. but the possiblity of the unknown with a major surg would be too much for me to risk for me and my baby if it was not an emergency (and i mean nothing wrong with mom or baby, totally elective). i lost 3 liters of bld in the OR alone, got three units of bld, a half day stay in the icu, almost went into dic, and ended up on pit post section for 18 hours. i was in terrible pain, the demerol pca was like water and i was begging for something else. afterwards it took me days to have the strength to pick up my baby and didn't feel safe alone with him..i could barely hold him to breastfeed in the beginning. i ended up eating 2 percocets every 3-4 hours for weeks, they even renewed my script without a question. a little more than a year later i still have pain in my lower abd, my incision still hurts if pressed on, and from my belly button down in still mostly numb to the touch-all these symptoms are ones that other ladies have said they still have too...even 5 years after a section. so it just reinforced my belief that it is not good or healthy to have a section if at all possible. the other part of this issue is that i missed the one chance to experience childbirth with my current husband. baby #3 was our first together, but he got deployed to iraq when i was 3 months preg and on bedrest and didn't come home until a month after the baby was born. so i was very let down by the experience that we didn't get to have together, although he was very in-tuned to me after all the trauma. don't get me wrong, i was so very greatfull that the ability to have the stat section was avail to me...the baby's heart rate wasn't ever affected during the surg or before-but let me tell u how freaked out the OR was!! they had a ton of people in there and i got the delightful experience of turning and looking at the laryngoscope while the anesthesiologist was repeatedly tilting my head back getting ready! i also got to wake up in recovery to the 'give her that third unit!' anyway, yes, every birth is an experience to remember-and a healthy outcome is what everyone wants...i try to repeatedly tell myself that. hats off to all u l&d nurses, i truly could not do it. but i am a big believer that the 'medicine-ized' birth is not a good thing for mom or baby...if there were never any bad side effects to any of the meds or interventions then i prob wouldn't worry so much-i never wanted an epidural b/c i was so afraid it would depress my preemies and didn't want something else to up a possible problem. ugh, i could go on forever guys, the whole thing just hurts so much and i like to hope that it could be so different for everyone, but i know that technology and 'progress' happen, and the fear of lawsuits is huge...i hear that many ob's are going out of the business b/c they can't afford the malpractice. ok, i'll shut up!
Nov 3, '05Quote from DayrayI was taught that pain is subjective, that is pain is what the patient said it was. I work through ways of dealing with pain before the drugs come in.Wow this has really heated up.
I'm not a woman and no I don't know what labor feels like. I do however know that I can see a difference in those that experience labor and those that have not.
If you don't believe that we are a pampered society next time you start an IV on a primip ask them to rate the pain of it on a scale from 0-10 and you'll see what I mean.
Just so you know my 0-10 pain scale goes like this 1-the pain in my hands and arms from my spinal compression, 5-shingles, 7-gunshot wound to the thigh, 10-setting my own broken humorous. I may not know what labor feels like but I do know what pain is.
Having said that a friend described labour and delivery to her husband "try jumping out of a third floor window and landing on your bike that's had the seat removed."
Nov 3, '05Does anyone here know if there is a higher rate of PPD for c/s moms vs vag delivery? Any studies?
Nov 3, '05I don't think C-sections should be elective even if you are the queen of pop. C-sections do have their place. My daughter is having one on Monday because my grandson is breech. I had two C-sections for breech babies. I would hardly say they are extremely painful for weeks. 24 hours maybe if you have a low tolerance to pain. You get up, get moving and you'll be just fine.
Nov 3, '05I, too, have had a delivery of both kinds.
The vag was as easy as they come. The CS was as difficult as they can be (classical, general, infected). I would still choose a CS (provided I had a choice, which I don't due to the classical) over a vag if I were to deliver again. Why? Many reasons...all important to me and none of anyone else's business.
I've been in OB all my nursing career. Many posters have made statements about how "vag deliveries get up right away" or "CS's include weeks of pain and recovery time". None of those kind of blanket statements are true. I've seen vag's try to lay in bed for days, and CS's get up as soon as possible.
Ultimately, it should be the woman's choice about how to deliver (barring emergencies, etc) and she should not be criticized or denigrated for her choice.
I swear, some of these discussions remind me of men comparing penis size. A woman is not more womanly for having delivered vaginally or unmedicated.
Nov 3, '05No one is saying one is better than another for delivery vaginally. You reading WAY too much into it, Judy. The original premise of the thread was to discuss whether purely NON-medical, elective csections should be done or not. I dont' see a heck of a lot of people denigrating each other for their choices, and I find it interesting to note the definition of what is really "elective" is varied. To me, "elective" means having the choice------yes----but I do not think that "choice" should extend to people getting it "cause they want it". There should be established medical need, at least, that is my argument.
Nov 4, '05I'm with you Deb. Whenever someone says they don't believe in strictly elective c-sections (those which have NO medical indication) people start with the defensive replies. No one has ever said that women are less womanly if they don't push a baby out through their vagina. No one has ever said that there shouldn't be c-sections when medically necessary either.
Nov 4, '05I had my 2 vaginal deliveries,and if ever I will plan to have another baby my DR. told me to have a Csec, got a lot of probs., met during my past deliveries.Though I prefer to deliver normally in my next one (hope I am not preg this month) Dr. adviced Cssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
Nov 4, '05Personally, I've had a total of 5 c-sections. Although they weren't exactly by choice. My first one was delivered as an emergency due to placental abruption and I was hemorrhaging out. Lost my son, but they managed to save me. Got pregnant with my second child so soon after that section that the Dr. thought it safer to do repeats. In my case, having the section was a lifesaving event. However, I think doing a section as a choice isn't really right. Medically necessary is fine, but I am not sure how vanity would cause the choice for a section. Frankly, it's worse on your appearance having the sections. The scarring that gets left behind isn't the prettiest. And after so many, it caused so much internal scar tissue for me that I ended up with a hysterectomy by age 29 (which was fine by me since I was so done having kids...lol). I just don't think major surgery should be the option of choice when having a baby unless medically necessary. The natural way is generally the best for mother or baby unless complications arise. But that is just my personal opinion. I do feel like maybe I missed out on some great experience because of not going through the delivery process. But even VBAC wasn't an option for me.
Nov 4, '05Quote from dayraywhat that day a-comes dayray i will be out of ob forever. i will try to at least help preserve breastfeeding in my role as a lactation consultant but the joy will have gone out of l&d for me.the day is comeing when you will come to work and circle the or all day.
like i said i can't say that it's wrong for someone to choose a c/s i just know i will miss laboring paitents when the day comes that we have a 90% c/s rate like other countries
i didn't have time to read all the posts in this thread but the first 16 probably were a good representative sample. i am saddened by the younger nurses who have bought into this line of thinking. they won't know what they are missing.
i had my first baby by cesarean in 1980 because she was a 9lb 14 oz footling breech. when i became pregnant with my second child in 1981 my doctor agreed after some cajoling to allow me a trial of labor. i had to agree to many things, like no epidural.they would not induce me or do anything that might increase my risk of uterine rupture. i had a nurse sitting by my bedside staring at my monitor the whole time and doctors hovering over my bed when i complained of pain in my scar area. fortunately i had my 10lb 1oz persistent op son vaginally! i was amazed at how much better i felt than i had after my cesarean. in fact, i felt so good that i told my husband not to bother to call the nurse to help me to the bathroom and i passed out cold! but i felt great and got back to my 19 month old at home within less than 48 hours.
when child number three was coming i lived in a more rural town and had a hard time finding someone who wasn't worried that i would sue him over any problems if he allowed me to vbac. finally i did and had my nicest birth ever. my first actual birthing bed delivery, again a persistent op 10lb 11oz baby. i am fine, i don't wet my pants, i don't need an a/p repair, don't have a rectocele or anything else that people worry about.
i know that one persons experience does not science make but i just had to share my personal feelings on this. i could actually go on forever with research and references but i don't think i will convince anyone who is already sure that c/s is the way to go.
i just know that for me my vbacs were long and challenging but they were also two of the most rewarding things i have ever done in my life. i felt empowered and proud and like i had done what i, as a woman, was meant to do. it was wonderful and i treasure every day that i get to help another woman have such an amazing, transforming experience.
<<flameproof suit firmly in place>>